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Another Stebel horn problem

Posted By: DonD

Another Stebel horn problem - 11/21/09 11:03 PM

I've installed a Stebel and it won't work.
I've taken eveerything back off and started over, retraced all the wires repeatedly, and can't find a thing wrong.
I've tried 4 different relays, including 1 of a different brand.
If I take the + wire from the horn off the relay and touch it to the + battery terminal, the horn blows.
When I push the horn button, the light on the wire from the relay to the + terminal lights up, the relay clicks, and... nothing.
Although my instructions said to run the - wire from the horn back to the relay, I was told to run it directly to the - terminal on the battery, and it made no difference.
I checked the 2 wires from the horn, touching them directly to the battery and the horn worked. If I reverse them, I get a chuffing sound which I assume is the compressor running backwards. So the connections to the horn are good and are correctly wired.
What else can I check? At this point, I'm sorry I bothered with it at all, though I'd love to have the extra sound (as opposed to the 'eenk' noise the stock horn makes).
Any suggestions?
Posted By: Selden

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/21/09 11:17 PM

If you can't solve the problem with the Nautilus, try a Stebel Magnum , which is a plug-and-play replacement for the stock horn. No relay needed; the spade connectors plug right on to the Stebel. It's not as loud as the Nautilus, but loud enough, and considerably easy to install (I did it without removing any bodywork from a 1999 RT). Just make sure that the bell of the horn is not pointed forward, so it doesn't become a water scoop.
Posted By: OoPEZoO

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/22/09 04:02 AM

hmm......check your wiring against this

(courtesy of moshe_levy)

You should have
1 wire from Battery negative to Horn negative (black)
1 wire from Battery positive to Relay terminal 30 (red)
1 wire from Relay terminal 87 to Horn Positive (red)
connect your original Horn positive to Relay terminal 86
connect your original Horn negative to Relay terminal 85

Its just a hunch.....but if you are using relays with a built in diode and you have the horn button wires hooked up reverse, then when you push the horn button the current would flow through the diode instead of energizing the coil.
Posted By: g_frey

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/26/09 06:52 PM

Some of the Stebel equipment does not work right out of the box. Check your horn with a direct momentary hook up to the battery. Don't bother trying to contact the factory, it is a waste of time since they won't answer.
Posted By: tomk99r11

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/26/09 11:37 PM

Thye op stated that he got it to blow by touching the wire directly to the battery post. There is something incorrect in the wiring he has installed. I enlarged the diagram that came with my horn and hit it right the first time. Don't give up, it will work.
Posted By: Selden

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/27/09 02:07 AM

Thanks so much for posting the wiring diagram, as I am about to install one of these horns on my Honda Fit (which comes with a horn about as authoritative as that of an R1100RT).
Posted By: OoPEZoO

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/27/09 10:37 PM

LOL.....I believe it. Horns have got really pathetic over the years. The one in my new Jeep wouldn't scare a squirrel. I am also planning to toss a Stebel in it.

If you run into any issues or have any questions, my inbox is always open.
Posted By: DonD

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/27/09 11:42 PM

Finally had time to check your info against what I've done on the bike (thanks for the input).
My horn negative is connected to terminal 85 (which is also connected to battery (-) terminal) per the instructions that came with the horn. I didn't have the right terminal to connect it, but held it directly to the battery - terminal and it didn't make any difference.
My original horn (-) isn't connected to anything per instructions that came with the horn. (I figured per tests below and the kit providers insistence he has installed successfully this way many times that isn't the problem, but let me know if I'm wrong)
The wire going to terminal 30 has a light on it. It goes on when the horn button is pushed and you can hear the relay click.
The horn defintely isn't wired backwards - I touched it to the battery + and - and the horn worked - when I reversed them, I could hear the compressor running backwards.
Any ideas? I'll try about anything at this point!
Posted By: OoPEZoO

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/28/09 01:29 AM

hmm......That sounds like the relay is working, but obviously something isn't right. How are you with a multimeter/test light?

You should be getting 12V on terminal 86 every time you push your horn button.
You should ALWAYS have 12V on terminal 30
You should be getting 12V on terminal 87 every time you push your horn button
Posted By: bimmers

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/28/09 03:27 AM

you need to get full power to the compressor and using large enough wires otherwise it will just heat the wires up.

it should work, no reason to give up.
Posted By: JonathanE

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/28/09 06:45 AM

If the horn works without the relay, but doesn't work with the relay, and you've tried multiple relays, then it must be the way you are wiring up the relay. If you have a multimeter and know how to use it, it's time to do so. If not, I suggest that maybe it's time to find someone that does.

I know my way around a meter and wiring, but I can't guess at which of the many ways possible, that you may have connected the relay incorrectly. Sorry,
Posted By: DonD

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/28/09 05:40 PM

The test light shows power on terminal 30, but none on 86 & 87 when the horn button is pressed, but now the light on the wire to the (+) terminal isn't coming on, and the relay isn't clicking. Will check back with you when I figure out why!
Posted By: DonD

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/28/09 07:20 PM

OK, back to normal. Power on terminal 30, none on 86 or 87 when button is pressed, but relay clicks and light comes on. Clue?
Posted By: FLrider

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/28/09 11:41 PM

Originally Posted By: OoPEZoO
... Horns have got really pathetic over the years. The one in my new Jeep wouldn't scare a squirrel. I am also planning to toss a Stebel in it.



Love my Stebel. Comes with a built in "texting" detector. grin
Posted By: OoPEZoO

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/29/09 04:39 AM

Originally Posted By: DonD
OK, back to normal. Power on terminal 30, none on 86 or 87 when button is pressed, but relay clicks and light comes on. Clue?


Something is hooked up wrong.....its the only option. Otherwise you horn would be working, or you would be melting wires/blowing fuses.

I don't know what else to tell you other than to ignore whatever instructions you have and wire it like I initially diagrammed. I don't know the supplier, but are they used to dealing with BMW electrical systems? This might not be the same as hooking it up to some random Japanese bike or Harley. I have an assumption that the horn circuit is tied into the CANBUS system somehow, and that original horn (-) connection isn't the same as battery (-). You might be causing some type of screwy ground loop.

Relays are pretty simple things. You apply 12V between one set of terminals (85 & 86), which in turn connects another set of terminals (30 & 87). If I was standing there, I could troubleshoot it in a matter of seconds, but its obviously a little more difficult like this. If you want to eliminate the horn button circuitry, just disconnect the wires from 85 & 86. Grab a good old 9V battery and stick it between 85 & 86. That should energize the relay and cause the horn to blow.
Posted By: Eckhard Grohe

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/29/09 12:48 PM

Is the light wired in series or in parallel??? It should be in parallel to the horn.
Posted By: DonD

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 11/29/09 06:14 PM

I think, but will double check, that everything is per your instructions EXCEPT that there's no wire to the (-) wire to the original horn button.
I'll wire that in this evening and see if it fixes the problem.
The instructions that came with this kit didn't call for it, but it wouldn't be the only error I found if it turns out it's wrong.
Posted By: DonD

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 12/28/09 01:22 AM


With work and the holidays, I just got around to adding the wire mentioned above. It didn't make any difference. I am totally stumped.
Posted By: T__

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 12/28/09 01:39 AM


Don, wire it like this,, donít worry about the resistor shown as that is for more advanced installs.. Remove the original horn..

If you wire it like shown & the horn is good & the relay is good it WILL work..



Twisty
Posted By: DonD

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 01/13/10 01:33 AM

Well this is too stupid for words. There was no fuse in the fuse holder, but the LIGHT on the holder came on consistently, so I never even thought to look. I figured if there was ONE wire that was right, it was the one from terminal 30 to the battery. I KNEW it was going to turn out to be something ridiculously simple...
After making a wiring change, the light stopped working and I thought I might have blown the fuse, checked and found.... nothing. Why was the light coming on if there was no fuse?
So now I need to know what size fuse belongs in the holder. I can find no clue with my instructions (which also don't tell me to install a fuse as part of the install).
Thanks for the diagram. I understand the circuit a little better at the very least, and the diagram would have been easier to follow than the poorly written instructions. BTW, though, my instructions didn't call for a wire from the (-) side of the original horn wire, and the horn works without it. Don't know why...
Posted By: T__

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 01/13/10 01:59 AM

Don, the only specs I can find on that horn show about 18 amps current draw at peak so I would think a 20 amp fuse should cover it.. If that blows then maybe try a slow-blow 20 amp fuse..

Twisty
Posted By: Selden

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 01/13/10 02:05 AM

When I installed a Stebel/Wolo air horn, I gave up on the wiring diagram that came with the horn, and just used the diagram that was on a Radio Shack relay. All the horn needs is a positive and ground connection, with sufficient current to drive the motor. The relay is just a special switch that can handle a large current without burning out. It sounds like you are using the same fused wire that I am; I think it's designed to light up when the fuse is blown. I used a 15 Amp fuse (I know from experience that 10 Amp is not enough); the fuse should be as close to the battery as possible (but still accessible). I ran separate grounds for the relay and for the negative terminal of the horn. Keep in mind that the horn ground circuit wire needs to be able to handle as much current as the positive lead.
Posted By: DonD

Re: Another Stebel horn problem - 01/14/10 04:35 AM

Thanks for the help everyone!
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