Lithium Ion Battery

Just checking here- Anyone tried a Bikemaster Li-Ion Battery in their GS?

Was going to go Shorai, but the different forums suggest poor performance in cold weather.

TIA....

Your friendly neighborhood "Heck"

Just checking here- Anyone tried a Bikemaster Li-Ion Battery in their GS?

Was going to go Shorai, but the different forums suggest poor performance in cold weather.

 

Afternoon Heck

I don't know why the Bikemaster Lithium Ion battery would have any better cold weather performance than the Shorai LiFePO4 battery would.

I haven't any personal experience with the Bikemaster brand but do with the Shorai & while the Shorai is a lighter weight battery (but more expensive) I have seen the cold (very cold) weather starting ability not being adequate.

If you do decide to try the Bikemaster be sure to inquire about the type of battery charger you will need to maintain it to 100% ability.

Just checking here- Anyone tried a Bikemaster Li-Ion Battery in their GS?

Was going to go Shorai, but the different forums suggest poor performance in cold weather.

 

TIA....

 

Your friendly neighborhood "Heck"

Regardless of the manufacturer's claims, they are LiFePO4 batteries like Shorai and Antigravity. This means they have exactly the same advantages and disavantages as the competition.

On a track bike or even a fair weather bike they are great and perform exactly as claimed.

But I wouldn't fit them to a tourer/adventure bike that gets used and parked in all weathers.

Thanks folks- thought there might be enough of a difference between the Lithium Ion and the LiFeP04...apparently not so. I have found the bikemaster brand for about half of what the Shorai sells for....Get what you pay for I guess.

I've been beta testing a Shorai in my Vintage Moto Guzzi that is semi retired. That means it sits in the garage a lot and these batteries store well as long as no parasitic load on them. Cold weather not a plus as the battery needs pre-heated by turning on lights as one method(no just turn the key and go)at around 45-50 degrees. On the other hand mine out cranks a conventional lead-acid in warm weather. Also I haven't babied mine a bit just charging with a 2A automotive charger infrequently. Also my Guzzi has an old relay voltage regulator for a excited field alternator for charging as I ride. No problems in around 4 years of operation. Weight reduction is an instant reward. For my all year around ride BMW, I still prefer the lead-acid for now. From a quick look both the Shorai and the Bike Master are both LiFePO4 batteries which is good as just Lithium Ion is much more likely to explode from misuse.

UPDATE: I just got to thinking I hadn't checked lately and my beta test Shorai battery in my Guzzi Lemans is now a bit over 9 years old and still working fine. I'd say it has passed my beta test for the lesser ridden and in warmer weather application just fine!

Li-ion and LiFePO4 are completely different technologies with completely different properties... However, as Kakugo states, these are NOT Li-ion batteries. They are LiFePO4 batteries... which they finally say when you drill deep enough into their pages.

So, if the Li-Fe batteries are weak in cold weather, what's the attraction? I'd prefer to know my battery's there 100% of the time and not have to cludge up some "battery warm up" process. Is it just because they're a few pounds lighter? These motorcycles aren't airplanes so I wouldn't think weight (plus or minus a few pounds I mean) was big deal.

So, if the Li-Fe batteries are weak in cold weather, what's the attraction? I'd prefer to know my battery's there 100% of the time and not have to cludge up some "battery warm up" process. Is it just because they're a few pounds lighter? These motorcycles aren't airplanes so I wouldn't think weight (plus or minus a few pounds I mean) was big deal.

Afternoon Pappy35

They are fairly new to the motorcycle world, they are exocytic, they are mysterious, they ARE lighter, & they are expensive so they are on some riders "must have" list.

Perfect battery for a lightweight warm weather off-road bike, not so much for a meat & potatoes everyday bike ridden in all weather.

The Li-Fe batteries are making progress every year so it probably won't be too awfully long before they make main stream in some standard motorcycles.

When we reach a point that we don't have to jump some of the Li-Fe battery bikes on real cold morning starts then I might consider one myself.

While cold weather performance is a weak point of the Li-Fe batteries, the shelf life is a strong point. Do you have a 9 year old motorcycle battery that still works and that's without a battery tender connected to boot? On weight savings, cutting weight may or not be a priority to everyone. That's why you'll likely never see the word 'magnesium' on a Harley Davidson. For those that do like cutting weight, these batteries are way cheaper than an exhaust system for lbs./$ as I'm talking a typical 10 lbs. or more instantly!

The Li-Fe battery has been a good choice for my semi-retired vintage machine. I still use a AGM in my BMW that I may ride any month of the year.

A new starting method may be all that is necessary. Wait a few extra seconds to hit the starter. Turn the key, put on gloves, engage. My KTM 350 EXCF's OEM battery is a Lithium. It says right in the manual and KTM website to start in cold weather by turning the key to the on position for about 10 seconds and hence the headlight/fuel pump/ECU/taillight excite the electrons then depress the starter button. I don't live in real cold weather but in the desert mornings I guess it could get to 30 degrees. Some of you may see Zero through the winter so more seconds may be necessary. Most of the issues people have discussed on ADV forums have been with regard to charging them. I have not had that issue because I ride the little beauty at least once a week. I also monitor my batteries and have a Lithium charger just in case because they do require some difference or so they say. I also have an Antigravity Restart battery on my KTM 690. It didn't cost any more than the Yuasa OEM lead acid battery. I've gone through three lead acid batteries on that beast even with a Battery Tender. The Anti-Gravity Restart has some smarts built into it. If the battery falls below 12.5 vdc due to inactivity or parasitic load it will go to sleep. Should that happen there is a button on the top of the battery to depress that wakes the battery. Now you start the engine. A remote wake up is in the works. Worst case is the clock would require a reset. I see no reason to believe that a meat & potatoes everyday bike ridden in all weather would have trouble with one. And if you ride it a lot even in cold weather it should always be charged. The weight savings is tremendous. On a 600 pound bike I think you would feel side to side transitions to be faster. I'm surprised BMW has not already gone to Lithium.

The concern I have is that RT's have a fairly high current draw when off. LiFePO4 does not have a lot of amp-hours (energy stored), rather it has a greater ability to release the little bit of energy it has quickly to crank the bike effectively for a brief period. In theory at least, they would have even more need to be kept on a trickle charger than an agm, or other lead-acid technology. As well, if there were repeated cranks over a short period of time I would be concerned.

In any event, our Odyssey PC 680's are now over 6 years old each, and both remain strong. I can't see paying double for LiFePO4.

In any event, our Odyssey PC 680's are now over 6 years old each, and both remain strong. I can't see paying double for LiFePO4.

In my case I don't see paying more than double for the Odyssey...

I put a Generic TLV12200 battery in my 07 RT 5yrs ago and it still going strong.

It's not marketed a MC battery(That's probably why it's so cheap) but has 20Ah.

$74 CDN incl shipping compared to $174 CDN for the Odyssey P680.

It's not as tall as the OEM, I had to put a 1/4 inch piece of rubber underneath for a perfect fit.

***************************************

Features of the TLV12200 - 12V 20Ah Battery with F3 Terminals

• Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) technology for efficient gas recombination of up to 99% and freedom from electrolyte maintenance or water adding

• Not restricted for air transport-complies with IATA/ICAO Special Provision A67

• UL-recognized component

• Can be mounted in any orientation

• Computer designed lead, calcium tin alloy grid for high power density

• Long service life in float or cyclic applications

• Maintenance-free operation

• Low self discharge

Applications

• UPS Standby Power Applications

• Data Centers

• Emergency 911 Centers

• Hospitals & Medical Applications

• Military Power Equipment

• Emergency Lighting

• Fire Detection and Alarm Devices

************************************************************

When mine finally dies, I'm definitely getting the same one again.

Full specs are available here:

https://www.upsbatterycenter.ca/12v-20ah-sealed-lead-acid-battery-f3-nut-bolt-terminals

YMMV

Li-ion and LiFePO4 are completely different technologies with completely different properties... However, as Kakugo states, these are NOT Li-ion batteries. They are LiFePO4 batteries... which they finally say when you drill deep enough into their pages.

Actually, LiFePO4 is just one of more that half a dozen lithium-ion chemistries. The term lithium-ion is generic and doesn't refer to any specific type of battery. For a more complete discussion of the various types, see https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion.

On 11/4/2018 at 12:15 PM, Twisties said:

The concern I have is that RT's have a fairly high current draw when off. LiFePO4 does not have a lot of amp-hours (energy stored), rather it has a greater ability to release the little bit of energy it has quickly to crank the bike effectively for a brief period. In theory at least, they would have even more need to be kept on a trickle charger than an agm, or other lead-acid technology. As well, if there were repeated cranks over a short period of time I would be concerned.

I learned about this high current draw when off the hard (read expensive) way.  I purchased a Shorai battery for my RT and after it sat for a week or so, I went to ride it, and she was dead.  And dead lithium batteries are just that...   dead, ruined, shot.  That didn’t take long.  Back to a lead battery and never to look back.

Curt

UPDATE:  My Shoria LiFePO4 beta test battery failed to start my semi-retired vintage Moto Guzzi last weekend after 9 years & 4 months in the bike.  Like stated before the battery was not babied at all.  I just replaced with another one as my bikes seem to be getting heavier as I get older.