made2care Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Bike left me stranded at work today. Eventually ran the battery down trying to start it. Seems as though the battery wont hold a charge. Came back to the bike 2 hrs later and presto, it started right up. strange since i had run battery down to the point of it clicking, if that's what I did. Is it the battery, the starter? or maybe something else? This bike does not start right up, even with the choke. any help would be great. thanks Link to comment
dirtrider Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Evening made2care What bike are you working on? Link to comment
Michaelr11 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 You need to provide a more complete description of what is and is not happening. Is your engine turning over (the starter is engaging) but fails to start? Is the RID - Rider Info Display - lit up showing fuel level and gear selected? Is the Neutral light ON? Did you wash the bike or ride in the rain? When trying to start it does the tachometer needle bounce? Could be lots of things going on. Others will ask more questions. Without much to go on, if the engine is turning over and all other indicators are normal, I would guess Hall Sensor. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 2004 R1150RT Evening made2care Depending on how long that you cranked the engine when trying to start it it doesn't sound like a starter issue or a battery issue (especially if the battery self recovered after sitting for a while) Difficult to tell from this far away what you have going on there. Until it acts up again you won't know if it was a one time deal or a sign of impending problems. How long did you try cranking the engine until the starter started clicking? If it happens again pay attention to the dash RID & the tac --Also try giving it a little more fuel by holding the twist grip open about 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Are you getting any whooshing sound when you open the gas cap after riding for a while? Has it been hesitant to start before this issue? If so when? Any black smoke out of the muffler after it finally starts? We will need way more info from you to be able to guide you in finding your problem. Link to comment
made2care Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) You need to provide a more complete description of what is and is not happening. Is your engine turning over (the starter is engaging) but fails to start? Is the RID - Rider Info Display - lit up showing fuel level and gear selected? Is the Neutral light ON? Did you wash the bike or ride in the rain? When trying to start it does the tachometer needle bounce? Could be lots of things going on. Others will ask more questions. Without much to go on, if the engine is turning over and all other indicators are normal, I would guess Hall Sensor. Very strange and I will provide some more info. I parked the bike in the sun and was there for most of the morning. At lunch, the problems started. All the lights came on and she would not start. The engine does turn over but after about 2 min of starting attempts, the battery ran down to the point of clicking. Now, I came back 3 hrs later and she started right up. All displays working. I just parked it into the garage and went back after an hr and it started the best it ever has. I just barely touched the starter button and immediately started. something is not right here. To answer some questions, I did not wash the bike or recently drive it in the rain. It was very hesitant to start early this morning. No black smoke from tailpipe. Tach does not bounce when starting. This could be a possible fuel issue. Gas cap normal. suction sound upon opening. RID fully functional. Edited August 22, 2016 by made2care Link to comment
dirtrider Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Evening made2care OK, none of those things point to a bad starter or bad battery so that pretty well leaves a fueling or sparking issue. If no black smoke after starting then probably not a lack of spark issue (not for sure but points that way) IF it happens again (no-start) first thing to try is holding the twist grip open a little during starting. (see if that helps) Link to comment
made2care Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Maybe parking it in the hot sun had something to do with it. Link to comment
kioolt Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 If the bike is in gear and the side stand is down the starter will turn when pushing the start button with the clutch in but the ignition will not fire the spark plugs. Make sure you don't forget to put the side stand up. DAMHIK Link to comment
dirtrider Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Gas cap normal. suction sound upon opening. RID fully functional. Morning made2care Are you saying that you DO HAVE a suction sound when opening the gas cap? Link to comment
Craig G. Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Been looking for an opportunity to share my experience with my 2 non-starting RTs. My 2003 acted up on a cool morning in the Smokies. All lights and indicators normal, would crank but would not fire. Jumped off another bike and it started. Worked fine the rest of the trip. Acted up again after I got home, intermittent crank but no start. A buddy present at a no start event asked if the starter always sounded so "rough". It started me thinking so I pulled the starter apart and found the shield sealing the reduction gearbox dislodged and was shorting out the windings on the armature. Fixed that with some JB weld, reassembled and the problem and noise went away. The starter shield problem is documented elsewhere on this site. Next bike was a 2004RT which I bought non-running, was told the HES sensor was bad. While waiting for a new sensor to be delivered I swapped various parts including the HES and starter (fewer miles) from the 2003. The bike fired right up. Once delivered I installed the new HES in the 2004 and all was good. I reinstalled the 2003's original HES along with the starter from the 2004 and suddenly it would not start reliably. Figuring I damaged the wiring on the HES I ordered another one, installed it and it still wouldn't start reliably. Many hours of hair pulling later I yanked the starter for lack of another idea and found the same dislodged shield as I found on the 2003 while in the Smokies. Removed the shield completely and all was good. So... the shield shorting out the armature windings pulled enough voltage while cranking that the ECU was not getting what it needed to fire the ignition or fuel injection. I bought $500 worth of HES's that I didn't need and spent untold hours troubleshooting due to a starter problem I had experienced before. My advice... pull your starter apart and inspect. Link to comment
made2care Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Gas cap normal. suction sound upon opening. RID fully functional. Morning made2care Are you saying that you DO HAVE a suction sound when opening the gas cap? No suction sound when opening the gas cap. Link to comment
made2care Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Been looking for an opportunity to share my experience with my 2 non-starting RTs. My 2003 acted up on a cool morning in the Smokies. All lights and indicators normal, would crank but would not fire. Jumped off another bike and it started. Worked fine the rest of the trip. Acted up again after I got home, intermittent crank but no start. A buddy present at a no start event asked if the starter always sounded so "rough". It started me thinking so I pulled the starter apart and found the shield sealing the reduction gearbox dislodged and was shorting out the windings on the armature. Fixed that with some JB weld, reassembled and the problem and noise went away. The starter shield problem is documented elsewhere on this site. Next bike was a 2004RT which I bought non-running, was told the HES sensor was bad. While waiting for a new sensor to be delivered I swapped various parts including the HES and starter (fewer miles) from the 2003. The bike fired right up. Once delivered I installed the new HES in the 2004 and all was good. I reinstalled the 2003's original HES along with the starter from the 2004 and suddenly it would not start reliably. Figuring I damaged the wiring on the HES I ordered another one, installed it and it still wouldn't start reliably. Many hours of hair pulling later I yanked the starter for lack of another idea and found the same dislodged shield as I found on the 2003 while in the Smokies. Removed the shield completely and all was good. So... the shield shorting out the armature windings pulled enough voltage while cranking that the ECU was not getting what it needed to fire the ignition or fuel injection. I bought $500 worth of HES's that I didn't need and spent untold hours troubleshooting due to a starter problem I had experienced before. My advice... pull your starter apart and inspect. Thanks for the info. if it happens again, i will definitely check. Link to comment
made2care Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Could the battery be suspect since i have to put it on a charger after each time i ride it?? I really shouldnt have to do that. Do these bikes have stators? Link to comment
made2care Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 What i meant to ask was. How can i check the alternator ? Link to comment
dirtrider Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Evening made2care To test the alternator-- Start by checking the condition & tightness of the alternator belt. Then put a DC voltmeter on the battery's + & - posts to measure the voltage. At warm engine idle you should see over 13.2 volts. At higher engine RPM's you should see 13.8-14.2 volts. Link to comment
made2care Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share Posted August 25, 2016 I checked the battery at startup and it dropped below 9.6. I think this battery is bad. dropped to 7 but then regained to 13. When i increase rpm, no change, stays at 13ish. Link to comment
Craig G. Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I checked the battery at startup and it dropped below 9.6. I think this battery is bad. Once again... check your starter. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I checked the battery at startup and it dropped below 9.6. I think this battery is bad. dropped to 7 but then regained to 13. When i increase rpm, no change, stays at 13ish. Afternoon made2care Where in the 13ish???-- 13.8+ =OK, 13.4= charging issue. Is your alternator belt slipping? Link to comment
made2care Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 I'm starting with easy part first. Removed battery and its the original, stamped Feb, 2005. Time to replace. Link to comment
made2care Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 New Motobatt battery in. Bike starts right up, no issues. Will check numbers tomorrow. Link to comment
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