Ready to throw the Towel in

2002 1150RT 70,000 miles

It's been a real bad 3 riding seasons. The above has spent more time in the shop then I had her to ride:

2014 ECU followed by Driveshaft

August 2015 Clutch Slave went and Master

Long story short, almost 1 year later I got her back. In August last year everyone had a six week backlog in Western PA. Then didn't get picked up until March, then I kept getting a back seat. Finally get her back via a Trailering her like 6 hrs. Fire her up and very hard starting despite the new battery. Finally got it started, oil smoke like a bomb went off. Some oil dripping out from the left head. Thought maybe from bouncing on the trailer oil slouched up into the head. 20 min running not bad. Took it to work today, 1 quart latter I barely made it home with soooo much Smoke and a kind of vibration

A wag would be a valve seal gone bad from sitting so long?

Compression test time?

I wish you the best.

Indy

Sounds like a good guess. How big a job is that on an Oil Head?

Kevin,

It might just be oil that seeped past the rings into the combustion chamber and is still trying to get burned off. I'd bet on this outcome.

Try pulling the plugs and seeing which one is fouled. Is the oil level in the engine ok, not too full?? If it's the left cyl, I'd bet the oil past the rings thing. Just keep cleaning the plug until the oil gets burned off. If its the right cyl, my guess would be the valve guide seal, intake side lower valve. If its both, you have my sincerest condolences.

You can replace the stem seal without removing the head by putting compressed air into the cyl thru a fitting in the spark plug hole. That will hold the valve closed while you compress the springs enough to remove the collets, valve spring plate, spring, and old seal. Reverse to reassemble.

I doubt its anything serious, just needs to be run for a while.

All the best. Please let us know what you find.

Lowndes

Evening Kevin-RT1150

Re-check the oil level tomorrow morning. If you added a quart it's probably w-a-y over-full (that can cause oil smoke & a vibration)

You also need to check the air cleaner box for the bottom being full of oil from the crankcase venting. (there is an air box drain valve on the lower left rear of the air cleaner box)-- bet a bunch of oil comes out of that.

With all due respect, the rarity of your combined symptoms make me suspect bad diagnosis. ECU, Driveshaft, Clutch slave? Maybe, but I would be suspicious.

Oil dripping out of a valve cover on the left?

Anyway, all signs to me at least of unprofessional advice or servicing.

Not that this makes you feel better...

Maybe get another doctor?

If it took them a year to get to your bike and repair it, I think you first need to find a new shop. Also, did they test ride it before - like, just before - you got it back?

What made you decide to put a quart of oil in to get home? (That sounds kind of taunting - it's not meant to be - I really mean it to be what it says: how did you determine that the bike needed so much oil added?)

josh

2002 1150RT 70,000 miles

 

It's been a real bad 3 riding seasons. The above has spent more time in the shop then I had her to ride:

2014 ECU followed by Driveshaft

August 2015 Clutch Slave went and Master

 

Long story short, almost 1 year later I got her back. In August last year everyone had a six week backlog in Western PA. Then didn't get picked up until March, then I kept getting a back seat. Finally get her back via a Trailering her like 6 hrs. Fire her up and very hard starting despite the new battery. Finally got it started, oil smoke like a bomb went off. Some oil dripping out from the left head. Thought maybe from bouncing on the trailer oil slouched up into the head. 20 min running not bad. Took it to work today, 1 quart latter I barely made it home with soooo much Smoke and a kind of vibration

This is one reason why people learn how to work on their own bikes.

2002 1150RT 70,000 miles

 

It's been a real bad 3 riding seasons. The above has spent more time in the shop then I had her to ride:

2014 ECU followed by Driveshaft

August 2015 Clutch Slave went and Master

 

Long story short, almost 1 year later I got her back. In August last year everyone had a six week backlog in Western PA. Then didn't get picked up until March, then I kept getting a back seat. Finally get her back via a Trailering her like 6 hrs. Fire her up and very hard starting despite the new battery. Finally got it started, oil smoke like a bomb went off. Some oil dripping out from the left head. Thought maybe from bouncing on the trailer oil slouched up into the head. 20 min running not bad. Took it to work today, 1 quart latter I barely made it home with soooo much Smoke and a kind of vibration

This is one reason why people learn how to work on their own bikes. Also, do you have a owners manual that you can refer to for checking the oil. It is not like any other bike I have owned. You need to know the correct procedure for doing so. If you know it then disregard this.

There comes a time when you have to call it quits and stop throwing money down the well.

Recently I suggested my brother he should stop sinking money in his GS and buy a new one. In his case it's a combination of his bike having been ill-treated for the first couple years of its life, improperly done DIY maintenance and just plain old bad luck: some bikes leave the assembly chain primed to be hangar queens.

In your case my advice is to sell the bike "as is" by being very clear about the issues or break it up for spares.

Your RT has "money pit" written all over it, sorry.

Well guys sorry for the delay... I was sooo depressed over loosing yet another riding season, I did nothing about why my RT was blowing all the smoke when I received it back from the dealer that did the clutch and Slave....

At this point I will not mention dealer names or locations, but I wound up taking the RT to another dealer. Between their mechanic and BMW NA, it has been determined that when the Main Shaft Seal (11111341135) was replaced (since I had the Tranny out), it was installed incorrectly. Apparently there is a BMW Specified Tool required NOT to insert the seal over a Crankcase Breather Port... The guy that did mine used a "25mm" socket!!! Besides Burning Oil, there was sooooo much internal Crankcase Pressure it also blew the Oil Breather Hose to smithereens!!

I've called BMWNA to "question" how they can be a "certified" BMW Dealer when I'm paying 85 bucks / hr for "backyard" mechanic mentality. BMW NA takes a "Hands Off" approach stating the Dealerships are Independently Owned!! My only recourse is to take it back to the guy who did it wrong in the first place. All I am attempting to do is have the current dealer make this right. On top of this entire mess, the original dealership will not go pick up the bike and BMW NA also stated that it is my responsibility to pay someone to take the bike 350 miles back to him..... Based on the above facts, can anyone chime in on what else I else I may have to look forward to since I put 98 miles with this condition?? The original dealer advised me to ride it as the oil would eventually burn off!!

Yikes - I screwed up the rear crank seal on the the first 1999 R1100RT I did after the design change moved the breather from the front of the engine (like my '95 RS) to the back. I also knew it right away and only wasted a week or so waiting for the correct tool and a new inner seal. A 25mm socket wouldn't do anything for this seal so I'm not sure how the "dealer" used it to incorrectly perform the install. I'm curious as to where the oil came from that you reported leaking around the left cylinder. Additionally, the breather hose from the engine case to the air box wouldn't likely be be destroyed by pressure in the engine since the pressure wouldn't be in the hose if the seal was trapping pressure in the case. Assuming the engine truly saw high crank case pressure, I'd take a very good look at the sight glass to make sure it wasn't pushed out or damaged. If there is any sign of a leak there, no matter how small, I'd replace it. I'd pull off the plastic front cover to check for a leak or seal out of place at the front of the crank as well. The front case / alternator support is prone to leaking anyway so I'd take a good look around its mounting face to make sure the sealant hasn't failed in the process.

Well guys sorry for the delay... I was sooo depressed over loosing yet another riding season, I did nothing about why my RT was blowing all the smoke when I received it back from the dealer that did the clutch and Slave....

At this point I will not mention dealer names or locations, but I wound up taking the RT to another dealer. Between their mechanic and BMW NA, it has been determined that when the Main Shaft Seal (11111341135) was replaced (since I had the Tranny out), it was installed incorrectly. Apparently there is a BMW Specified Tool required NOT to insert the seal over a Crankcase Breather Port... The guy that did mine used a "25mm" socket!!! Besides Burning Oil, there was sooooo much internal Crankcase Pressure it also blew the Oil Breather Hose to smithereens!!

I've called BMWNA to "question" how they can be a "certified" BMW Dealer when I'm paying 85 bucks / hr for "backyard" mechanic mentality. BMW NA takes a "Hands Off" approach stating the Dealerships are Independently Owned!! My only recourse is to take it back to the guy who did it wrong in the first place. All I am attempting to do is have the current dealer make this right. On top of this entire mess, the original dealership will not go pick up the bike and BMW NA also stated that it is my responsibility to pay someone to take the bike 350 miles back to him..... Based on the above facts, can anyone chime in on what else I else I may have to look forward to since I put 98 miles with this condition?? The original dealer advised me to ride it as the oil would eventually burn off!!

Afternoon Kevin

Difficult to tell what else might have been damaged (probably not much from the incorrect seal install but if the tec screwed up a simple seal(s) install then no telling what else he screwed up while working on that bike)

Your 1150 boxer actually has two rear seals (with a space between them for timed crankcase ventilation)

Seeing as one seal is 65mm x 83mm & the other seal is 65mm x 85mm I have no idea what a 25mm (1 inch) socket could have been used for???? (definitely not to drive a 83mm or 85mm OD seal.

If you have the original work order (receipt) from the dealer that messed the job up & decent documentation from the 2nd dealer that found the incorrect seal installation problem then you probably should get your state's attorney general involved as well as file a complaint with the better business bureau in your state. Maybe even file a small claims lawsuit against the original dealer. (use anything that you can to put pressure on the original dealer)

Definitely document EVERYTHING & keep all records of expenditures including gasoline to & from 2nd dealer, etc.

If you are persistent enough & keep putting outside pressure on that D.H. original dealer you might get some or all of your expenditures compensated. (it will probbaly take a lot of persistence though)

Hey, Kevin. I also had an '02 RT and LOVED the way it rode, BUT it was nothing but trouble for me. Another poster mentioned maybe it's time to move on and I would second that suggestion. BMW are great bikes but a good percentage of the '02 RT's unfortunately just have more than their share of problems.

Having hung around here for a while, I agree that the 02's seemed to have more than their share of problems.

Having hung around here for a while, I agree that the 02's seemed to have more than their share of problems.

Huh...guess I'm lucky then? My '02 is by far the best bike I've ever owned in my 40+ years of riding.

Exception given to my beloved '65 Ducati 250 which I miss dearly....ahhh back in the cafe days.

Kevin-RT1150, if you live is sunny California you can get the Bureau of Automotive Repair involved.

They tend to make service managers butts pucker when they call about a complaint.

Good luck, hope you get a happy resolution.

Indy

Hi Indy. You are certainly fortunate. As you well know, the 2002 model can be brilliant. I had one. However, just looking at the data being fed around, the 2002 has a raised risk of issues.

However, a good one is a good one!

Since I received ZERO support from BMWNA, they basically told me the Dealerships are "Independently" owned and they can NOT do ANYTHING to HELP me. Was wondering if BMW Motorrad would agree? Does anyone have a contact in Germany I could communicate the level of service / support I have received??

Since I received ZERO support from BMWNA, they basically told me the Dealerships are "Independently" owned and they can NOT do ANYTHING to HELP me. Was wondering if BMW Motorrad would agree? Does anyone have a contact in Germany I could communicate the level of service / support I have received??

BMW head office will not help in any way, shape or form.

Don't waste your time, breath, bandwidth or postage stamp.

If you really like I can send you the T-shirt I bought myself as I no longer let my experience with my Z4 rent space in my head.

Sorry for your troubles, my RT is the best ride I've owned. Pain in the ass mechanicals but I wrench myself so it isn't a big deal.

Kevin,

You need to go after the original dealer.

End if story.

Be polite, firm, professional.

Give them the info from 2nd dealership.

Tell them they screwed it up, how will they make it right?

If not cooperative, explain how you will use social media and other sources to inform other potential customers of the problems you had.

Don't make it personal.

AFA "dealerships" and the mothership, they are independent.

But, BMWNA does care about PR and feedback.

If you are in w Pa(?) there are optiopns out there closer than 350 miles (?)Most dealership owners do care about their customers and don't want bad mojo, but it is hard to tell the timeline(s) and actual order of events.

Good luck.

Since I received ZERO support from BMWNA, they basically told me the Dealerships are "Independently" owned and they can NOT do ANYTHING to HELP me. Was wondering if BMW Motorrad would agree? Does anyone have a contact in Germany I could communicate the level of service / support I have received??

Afternoon Kevin

If it hasn't been 24 months since the original repair then you M_I_G_H_T be able to go after BMW using the 2 year parts warranty on all BMW parts. If a BMW dealer installed the parts then labor should also be covered.

"Sold On or After April 1, 2003

BMW of North America warrants

Original BMW Parts, and Original

Remanufactured BMW Parts,

imported by BMW of North America

and installed by an authorized BMW

motorcycle dealer, purchased over

the counter or by mail order from an

authorized BMW motorcycle dealer,

against defects in materials and

workmanship for a period of 24

months without mileage limitations,

commencing with the date of

purchase"

"The warranty period shall commence

from the date of installation on all

original or original remanufactured

parts installed by an authorized BMW

motorcycle dealer. Warranty on parts

replaced during the warranty period

will remain in effect for the duration of

the vehicle warranty or the

replacement parts warranty,

whichever is longer"

"To obtain service under this warranty

for parts installed by an authorized

BMW motorcycle dealer, the BMW

motorcycle must be presented to an

authorized BMW motorcycle dealer.

Upon presentation of the original

repair order invoice or bill-of-sale

showing the installation date and

BMW part number, the dealer will

repair or replace said part(s) or

accessories covered by this warranty"

Thanks DR. Where did you copy the above from? This is great, but why did BMWNA lie to me and tell me to bring back to the original dealer? It's Clear in the above, "Parts and WORKMANSHIP"!!

Thanks DR. Where did you copy the above from? This is great, but why did BMWNA lie to me and tell me to bring back to the original dealer? It's Clear in the above, "Parts and WORKMANSHIP"!!

I'm not sure where I got that from. It has been the standard BMW warranty for a few years now.

The basic problem when working with BMW is-- Just getting them to do anything even if they have a printed policy.

Their standard answer is NO, dealer standard answer is NO, BMWNA standard answer is NO, then it is up to you to get them to honor their policies. If persistent you can get them off of top dead center & handling the issue but BMW is usually not forthcoming in handling the problem unless prodded into doing so.

Added: A couple of sites below containing the BMW parts warranty--

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/equipment/motorcycle_accessories/media/WPPM_MotorradPartsStatement.pdf

https://batxcr1.bmwcenternet.com/lib/Manuals/ElectronicWarrantyManual/BMW_Car_Wty_Manual/sec3g/bmw_value_protection_program_lifetime_limited_parts_warranty_reprint.htm

We replaced the same FD failure on the same '05 GS, five times under the BMW parts policy.

Why, IMO, it helps to know your dealer, establish a good relationship with them, and rely on them to do the right thing wrt part failures covered by this.

$pending spme time and money in the shop never hurts, IMO.

BEst wishes.

I think I am going to need a Lawyer(s) for this situation. I needed to pay 350 bucks to get my bike back from second dealer who worked with BMWNA to diagnose the problem!!! So not only did BMWNA not support the written warranty, it cost me $$!

Then the original dealer feels he is not responsible for the above 350 bucks or the nearly $2000 I've spent in Trailer Rentals, Hotels, 1500 miles or my time....

So Can anyone recommend a Lawyer in Ohio and perhaps for BMWNA I will need one in NJ?

So for $350, am I correct to guess it still isn't fixed either? Replacing both rear crank seals for that price would be a steal; not that it would feel that way at the moment.

350 bucks is what it cost me for the second dealer to "diagnose". BMWNA forced me to take it back from NY to Ohio to the Original dealer... Original dealer also refused to go pick it up....

And it did turn out that the Inner Seal WAS NOT installed or seated all the way in, hence blocking the Crankcase Ventilation...

I'm guessing they did their diagnostic work through pressure / vacuum tests then. Actually putting eyes on the inner seal requires the gearbox, clutch, flywheel (clutch housing) and outer seal to be removed. It would be silly to actually see the issue and not fix it.

I don't have a recommendation for a lawyer, but you may have some luck finding one through this site. I saw a recommendation for it in another forum regarding a warranty issue.

http://www.consumeradvocates.org/for-consumers