Lithium battery?

Has anyone tried lithium battery in their BMW? I have had one in my dirt bike for four years, it has never been on a charger, turns the bike over just like day one. Wonder if lithium battery works in BMW.

In general, none of the Li battery variants are very good for outdoor applications where charging and discharging at extended temperature ranges is a requirement.

The LiFePO4 batteries loose capacity very fast as the battery temperature drops. This is a problem when starting a large bike on a cold morning.

Also, maximum safe Li battery charging temperature is +40C to +45C. And not any higher than that.

In bikes where the battery is relatively open to ambient air flow, this might be OK, but when the battery is buried deep in the bike and basks at the heat from the engine, you're for sure going to exceed that temperature limit.

If you talk to the battery cell vendors (the people who make the actual battery cells, not companies Shorai, AntiGravity etc.) they are very firm about max charging temperature.

Above the specified max charing temp (typically 40C, maybe 45C) the risk of battery failure, or fire, is much too high.

Mikko

My K1200S used to go through BMW AGM batteries in under 12 months. They were all warrantied but what a hassle. Finding myself stranded for the last time at Laguna during the last MotoGP in 2013 I bought a Li battery from AntiGravity's booth there, and it was still going strong as of 2016 when the bike ran into other issues and I stopped riding it. No issues and it saved some nice weight.

Has anyone tried lithium battery in their BMW? I have had one in my dirt bike for four years, it has never been on a charger, turns the bike over just like day one. Wonder if lithium battery works in BMW.

Evening dcan

If weight savings is your main goal then the new lithium ion or lithium iron type batteries are top of the list.

If starting a large displacement 2 cylinder boxer in cold weather is your main goal then the old school lead acid, AGM, or Gel, battery design is probably a more reasonable choice.

There are a few BMW riders that I personally know or have camped with that are presently trying the lithium based batteries (mostly the GS off-road riders that put weight savings above cold weather starting performance)

We still have to jump or push start a few lithium battery bikes when it gets real cold overnight but for the most part just turning the headlights on for a few minutes will warm the battery enough to get some engine cranking. (if the bike allows turning on headlights before engine starts)

To me personally the lithium (iron/ion) battery technology is not quite ready for main stream usage yet for production bikes.

If the lithium based batteries were as good as some of the hype then you would be seeing many being used in modern production motorcycles & automobiles due to the great weight savings but so far that isn't happening. So that basically tells me that there are still some underlying reasons that the lithium xx battery is not quite ready for mainstream daily usage yet.

When you start seeing the lithium based batteries being used for STARTING batteries in consumer products then they will have evolved to the point of motorcycle usage reliability.

They are getting there as some of the lithium based batteries are now currently being used in non starting applications like back up power supplies & military application as well as aircraft offerings. Just not many being used as large displacement starting batteries.

There was one in my GS when I bought it........long story short....it sucked. If the bike sat for more than a week without a tender on it, it wouldn't start. I constantly had issues with my HID headlight firing. If it was a cold day and the bike sat outside at work for 8+ hrs, it wouldn't start either. I usually got one shot at the starter. If it didn't fire right over, I was screwed. I hated it. I went back to the good old Odyssey battery and everything is back to normal.

I hated to toss a good battery, so I threw it into my garden tractor. Less than a year later it was completely shot. It couldn't handle living in the shed without a tender on it.

Moral of the story........they offer no improvement for starting or general use. If you want to shed a few pounds off the bike, go on a diet

Another negative testimonial here. Put a Shorai in my DRZ 400. It lasted a year and a half. Didn't work so well in the cold at 4500' elevation. In the end it was dead. A short.

Bought a cheap Yuasa cause I wanted to ride the same day. I'll pop for an Odyssey when this one dies...

Never had the urge to try one in any of my street bikes after that.

MB>

KTM dirt bikes come stock with lithium batteries. They work great . I have started my KTM in 30 degree weather, you warm the battery first by hitting the starter and getting the fuel pump started. The greatest advantage I see is never having to charge the battery. I know guys with six year old lithium and never had a charger on them, but I guess they are not ready for street bikes.

KTM dirt bikes come stock with lithium batteries. They work great . I have started my KTM in 30 degree weather, you warm the battery first by hitting the starter and getting the fuel pump started. The greatest advantage I see is never having to charge the battery. I know guys with six year old lithium and never had a charger on them, but I guess they are not ready for street bikes.

Morning dcan

Just keep in mind that unlike that KTM the BMW street bikes have a large number of electronics that pull power from the battery even with the key turned-off so no matter the battery installed they will have to be kept topped up with a charger if they sit long enough.

The Lithium based batteries as well as GEL & AGM have a very long charged shelf life if sitting by themselves (un attached) but all will slowly discharge if installed in a modern motorcycle with on-board electronics.

I DID not read the instructions, and left my 2005 R1200RT parked for 5 months without starting it and NOT hooked up to the maintenance charger..When I decided to go for a ride,I found the battery dead as a door nail and way, way over discharged...I hooked the factory charger up, but I think I damaged the battery..Whats another 210.00,to a BMW owner.

My Bad

Steve (BOOCH)

FYI the battery is a Shorai

KTM dirt bikes come stock with lithium batteries. They work great . I have started my KTM in 30 degree weather, you warm the battery first by hitting the starter and getting the fuel pump started. The greatest advantage I see is never having to charge the battery. I know guys with six year old lithium and never had a charger on them, but I guess they are not ready for street bikes.

The battery in my 2016 KTM 350 is not lithium. Plain old lead acid low maintenance. I hear the 2017 went to lithium.

All 16 and 17 sx and xc have lithium, exc is street legal that is probably why.

I've had a Shorai battery in my 2014 R1200RT for over a year. I have never bothered with a charger as with prior batteries and it cranks faster than the OEM ever did, even at 22F. Good enough for me, if it craps out so be it.

Great thread - thanks all.

Another reason why this forum is wonderful!!

Saving weight on a single cylinder dirt or a track bike by using a Li battery makes sense. The weight savings of a Li battery in a touring or even a liter class adventure bike seems of incremental value at best.

An AGM battery specific for motorcycles without the logo goes for about $100 and it looks like my all time favorite AGM battery, (Universal UB 12220)goes for under $50 shipped to my door and appears to fit in my '15 RT. I have used the Universal AGM Battery in my '99 RT and they easily last 5 years with the use of a maintainer in the off season. Great cranking performance and never an ABS fault (a weakness of that vintage RT is if your battery is not at full charge the ABS computer throughs a fault code on start up).

So, doing back of the napkin analysis it seems that spending $50 every 5 years on a UB12220 VS anything else is the right choice for me. Compared to the Oddesey or Shorai, I would need these fancy batteries to last 15 to 20 years respectively before I get to even money.

2013 RT I bought with 23000 miles in March of last year was getting weak. In 4/16 I bought a EarthX 24D. 14 lbs lighter. If you dont think thats a lot, pick up a 10 lbs weight and toss it around. Most problems arrise with buying a Lithium that is undersized for application. Almost all sellers of (if not all) Lithium overrate their AH values so when you have a drain on battery when ign is off (BMW notorious so) you do not have enough reserve to start. Lithiums do not like to be completly discharged and then when your 500-700ah BMW alternator try's to recharge it the Lithium will try to take it all since there is minimal resistance in Lith batteries. Whatever Manufact. suggests, go one or two series higher.

EarthX is the exception in that they have built in circuits to ballance all cells and to stop a total discharge. You can even use a standard charger as long as it does not have a desulfate mode.

If I had a GS and spent a lot of time in out of the way places I would have purchased the 36 series for that extra bit of safety but I only ride to Rallys and day trips. Did not have any problem this winter, nor did I have to "warm the battery" to get it to crank over.

Good luck on your choice...

Maybe if weight savings is a must. You could convince me of the value for GS that actually is used off road or on dirt fire roads the majority of it life. For a 2.2% weight savings on my '15 RT touring bike I still couldn't justify the higher price VS an AGM battery.

My next door neighbor has a Duc 916 with all the performance goodies in the motor and he went LI last time around which makes perfect sense, as it is set up as a track bike. He still has some trouble starting the 916 on cold mornings when the oil is a bit thick. But that is Ducati's fault as they were so focused on weight savings they undersized the entire electrical system in the design process.

I had two lithium batteries. They both failed within 3 weeks of installation. Back to the OEM. Last thing I need is for a battery to fail 800 miles south of the border...LOL

Sorry guys but I've had no problems with my Lithium batteries on the Rockster and on the wonderful Honda NC750S-DCT 6-speed auto bike.

I have a battery isolator switch on the Rockster - meaning you just lift the seat and turn the knob when you leave the bike in sleep mode for a month or a quarter-year or whatever. Then there's no parasitic drain whatsoever on the electronics or battery.

Then a month or longer later, just turn the juice back on by simply lifting the seat and turning the isolator switch. Then turn on the IGN, which means with my EU-spec bikes that the headlamp comes on immediately. This warms the Lithium battery for half-a-minute on a chilly day. Twist the throttle to full and back without the motor running, which resets the Bosch Motronic ECU.

Turn IGN off and on again. Press the starter.

Bingo. Starter motor spins like gangbusters and the bike roars into life.

Who'd buy any other kind of replacement battery ? A new Odyssey old-fashioned battery costs 65% of the cost of a new Lithium, which is a fraction of the weight.

It's called "Progress".

AL

Hi dcan, just dropping into your BMW a LiFePO4 might be iffy. I have gone through many batteries on my R1200ST and I suspect the parasitic draw when parked is a contributing factor. I have a vintage 86' Moto Guzzi 1000 Lemans which is semi-retired that sits a lot, ridden in warmer months, but has no draw on the battery when turned off. I put a Shorai LiFePO4 in it 8 years ago and it still is working fine ...........except at cold temps. I've never babied this battery only on occasion putting a charger on it. It turns the motor as good as ever in warm temps so I can testify to the shelf life. So for an extra bike you have in the garage the LiFePO4 might be fine, but for a prime rider for all seasons probably not quite yet in my opinion.

"A new Odyssey old-fashioned battery costs 65% of the cost of a new Lithium, which is a fraction of the weight."

Careful, there. AGM is not "old fashioned" and has many technical advantages over LiFePO4. Odyssey, especially, is in a class of its own. Check the specs - check operating temperature range, check storage temperature range, check shelf life, check cold weather performance, check overall expected lifecycle, etc. Weight savings are of paramount concern re battery replacement on a 600+ pound sport touring motorcycle? C'mon.....

-MKL

Hi all, 

I am a little late to the game here,  recently had my odyssey battery die on my 02 RT. 

Took a chance and ordered a Smart Lithium replacement by battery tender. Cannot believe how light these are. Now wondering if I should go up a size. Website directed  the size below in photo. I live in SoCal, so low temps are not a concern. Have just installed it but not tested it. (Doing some other service work) 

Anyone else have any experience with these batteries?

Regards and thanks 

Derek 

Update from my 2017 post...............the Shorai continues to crank as new with no external interventions.

A 2.5AH battery won't crank for long. IIRC, You need 12 to 14AH to match the OEM battery. I had no issues with my Battery Tender brand Lithium battery in my Triumph Trophy SE, but it was a 14AH model.

http://products.batterytender.com/Batteries/

Indeed, 2.5Ah seems a bit small for a touring bike. Of course 32 Watt-hours are plenty for starting (you could run the 1.1kW starter for almost 2 minutes), but even a small load could drain the battery in a few days.

Regarding battery life time: My last Odyssey PC680 is at 13 Ah capacity (roughly 2/3 of original) after 9 years of use, including leaving it connected, without charger, for the last winter (before it was always taken out and stored fully charged). So AGMs can last pretty long if you don't allow them to sit in a drained state.

I now mounted a central 30A breaker between the battery and the fuse box - the starter is connected directly -, so no more tank removal gymnastics for me!

Regarding heaters for batteries: apparently that's a once standard but now forgotten technology even for lead-acid batteries. The Museum of Science & Industry here in Chicago displays a torpedo with a claimed factor three increase in range due to heaters fitted to its lead-acid batteries. And that's not even for freezing temperatures, just a steady 4C.