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Francois_Dumas

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Francois_Dumas

Hi all,

 

am contemplating (more or less forced by circumstances) to sell my 1050RT and 1200GS..... and get another bike.

Since BMW is so expensive..... I am wondering about the 800GS or V-Strom 1000. But we are mostly riding 2-up..... so not sure.

 

Any riders of those lurking around here... any thoughts ??

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Francois,

:wave:

 

First, fit. You and Nina are different sized ;)

and her comfort etc. is a big factor (you know).

Second, your roads are so different.

I have no idea, but think I would use the boxer a lot to control speed with engine, before braking?

If so, can the new bike provide the same option/feel?

Third, handling/suspension/braking feedback feel.

The telelever set up is unlike standard forks.

I love it and rely on the way it feels/works, secure in the "what if" moment that a handful of brakes won't upset the applecart.

YMMV wrt that, but 2 up with Beth, I always felt like we could stop safely and not over ride the bike's design into that area where I would mess it up.

Perhaps false sense of security, but, there were times that my only option to deal with a situation (like sudden deer, idiot turning left across multiple lanes, sudden pull out in front, classic "I didn't see them" etc.) was to put on the brakes/steer and shift.

Each and every time, the bike did what I needed it to do.

Wet/dry, day/night, urban/rural, solo/2 up.

Each and every time.

No drama. Well, afterwards at least.

While brain was reacting hands/feet reacting braking throttle mod steering input weight shift, all/combo of, bike never wavered.

A narrow miss is as good as a big one and an "almost made it" doesn't work.

Whatever you decide, really look at that factor for 2up riding.

Having someone else's life in your hands, well you know...

Fourth. You have other parameters, licensing fees, gas costs, insurance(?) that are very different from ours.

So how does that factor into it?

Maintenance? Dealer availability/quality/cost.

We looked at the BMW 800 ST as an option when we were going to downsize. (Because a friend stored one with us).

You know I'm vertically enhanced.

:Cool:

And Beth is over a foot shorter, similar to you two.

We were snug fit on the bike, but felt it had power enough and ABS.

We like(d) 2up riding. A lilltle less space (compared to GT and RSL/R100 RT set ups I had) was ok. You guys might not like it.

So, I guess you'll narrow it down, and get a test ride or two, first, right?

Like saddles, only you can determine fit/feel comfort.

Good luck.

Just last night we were talking about a visit in a couple years...

:):wave:

Edited by tallman
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Francois_Dumas

Hey Tim !1 Appreciate your thoughts. Yes, things are slightly different here..... but much like the Alps where we've done most of our miles.

And yes, we'll test ride first before any decisions....

 

Cost is an issue, dealers (maintenance) less so. There are a few around. I am worried mostly about the 'security' (feel/technology/road handling), us 'fitting', and reserve power for all the tiny, quiet but often steep hilly roads.

 

A friend of mine switched from the 1200 GS to the 800GS a while ago and loves it. Easier handling, lighter. But he always rides solo, so cannot really compare.

 

Will have a look at the Suzuki too... looks good on paper and from reviews.

 

The alternative to all this is a used 1200GS LC, there are quite a few around in Italy it seems.

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Dennis Andress

I bought an F800 GS last year. Most fun bike I've had in a long time. Light weight, fast enough, and great handling. It should be fine with Nina and you on it.

 

It is buzzy. The extra weight of the Throttlemeister bar ends helped a lot. But, 5,000 RPM/80 mph is still uncomfortable. It's fairly common to install a front sprocket that's one or two teeth bigger.

 

The forks are terribly under sprung. HyperPro makes fork springs for it.

 

The F800 Gs has been around since 2008 with one major revision in 2013. Making for a huge number of aftermarket vendors.

 

Dennis

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Try the 800 Tiger too. Engine is smooth as silk. I have a 2015 XRX and needed to upgrade the suspension but the XCX is adjustable.

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Well, You might try the FJR1300 for sport touring. I sold my '04RT and bought a 2010 FJR in like new condition with less than 1K miles. I've come to the conclusion that the FJR is not a BMW and I suspect I would find that to be the case with every bike from the "Big 4".

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I've come to the conclusion that the FJR is not a BMW

 

What exactly do you mean by 'is not a BMW'?

 

I had my next bike in prep for a 10K mile trip last June down to a '16 FJR-ES or a '16 RT. After 3 test rides on each bike over a month period I ended up w/ the RT. I love the bike immensely. My older brother bought a '15 FJR-ES new, and said it was the best bike he'd ever owned. He put close to 500K miles on various BMWs and prior to FJR his 2002RS was his all time favorite bike to ride. He owned a few RTs as well.

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I owned a RT and a FJR

this is my experience

 

number one issue, battery stuck under what seemed like an hours worth of plastic removal process.

 

when side bag locks broke, Yamaha warrantied them. but said they could not key to ignition. maybe a dealer issue, but hated having two keys

 

Suspension was really bad. I figured 1,500.00 to update the FJR suspension to BMW stock. But once done in my opinion the FJR is transformed

 

I had an early model and engine heat was terrible during the two hottest summer months. I heard it was fixed in later years.

 

side bags never felt as solid as BMW bags, but they never broke so what does "feel" mean

 

when I bought the FJR no OEM heated grip option

 

Rear wheel change is pain in the butt. But tires last 6K and had to do a spline lube every other tire change so it worked out. But most times I could not install the rear tire without help from my wife

 

glove box only opens with bike ignition off. assume some sort of safety issue. But I would keep a few items in there and every once in awhile I needed it. Not a big deal but when it happened it was an irritant

 

On the other hand

Engine is awesome and had one shim on one exhaust valve in 50K miles

 

Never had a drivetrain or mechanical breakdown, ever

 

bags where good size

 

I used GIVI top case so no comment on Yamaha top case

 

Seat was ok, but like BMW after market is usually needed.

 

electric windscreen worked well

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I've come to the conclusion that the FJR is not a BMW

 

What exactly do you mean by 'is not a BMW'?

 

OK, fair question. I lucked out with my generation2 FJR because the gen3 FJR is a nightmare to remove and re-install the side panels, flat period! I know because my neighbor has a 2015 FJR and I helped him replace the left side panel after a drop. On the gen3 Yamaha replaced the front steel sub frame with pot metal so when you drop your gen3 you risk fracturing the pot metal when the mirror hits the ground and you will learn some new words of profanity when you replace the front sub frame. Again, lucky I have a gen2. On my gen2 I had all I could do to place the bike on the center stand but putting the neighbors gen3 on the center stand was a piece of cake. Turns out Yamaha shortened the center stand on the gen3 by about 5/8" and that made all the difference. So, I spent a hundred bucks on a gen3 center stand. Now, there are 4 bolts that mount the center stand. Two of the bolts are installed by Yamaha with the nuts facing inward and the heads outward so to remove these two bolts Yamaha instructs you to remove or lower the exhaust head pipes to allow clearance for these two bolts when all Yamaha had to do was reverse the bolts in the first place. So, two days later after much work I used a saws-all with a metal blade to cut the bolt heads off to allow removal of the center stand then install the new gen3 stand with new bolts with nuts facing outward. Then we have the rear shock mount with the dog bone assembly which means poor ground clearance that the un-suspecting owner finds out about when going over a speed bump with passenger on board. If you want your FJR to handle and ride like a BMW be prepared to spend some serious money having the forks rebuilt and the rear shock replaced. Then I found out about the decelerating fork wobble that plagues many an FJR. My wobble began with only 4200 miles on the OEM Metzler tires. I did everything from torque the steering head bearings to re-balance the front tire. The cure was a new set of Michelin PR3's. A lot of guys swear by replacing the caged ball bearings in the steering head with tapered roller bearings which I might do if the wobble starts again. I do believe BMW bikes come standard with tapered roller steering head bearings. Then we have the hassle when it comes time to change the fork oil. Long and short is I would much prefer maintenance on my R1100RSL any day rather than work on a motorcycle that was designed by a guy named Rubric as in the cube guy.

 

All this said I'm going to keep the FJR because thanks to Yamaha and their annual give away program on new bikes they didn't sell the price point of used bikes tends to plummet rapidly.

 

In fareness I admit to being very biased towards BMW after riding the roundel for over 45 years. But long and short is you often times get what you pay for hence the price difference between a new 2017 FJR1300ES and a BMW R1200RT. Just how it is, you won't necessarily beat the system with a Japanese less expensive machine but it won't cost as much to try at least. I also think from about 2000 to 2010 BMW had some serious reliability issues but it looks like things are now pretty much back on track.

 

Oh, and now I have just over 5K miles on my '10 FJR1300A. Wonder what joys the next 5K miles will bring. Got to admit the drivetrain isn't bad so all is not lost so long as there are no transmission issues or you may as well part it out.

 

 

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Francois_Dumas

Thanks for all the info folks! Both the 1200RT and FJR1300 are out of reach..... unless used. Or unless I get a bundle for my 2 current bikes. But interesting reading. I did try both back i n 2004 and liked the BMW handling better at the time.

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You can find some great deals on low mileage gen2 FJR's but I would make sure the previous owner has kept the maintenance up. That's true for any bike but many FJR type owners seem to think that all they really have to do is change oil and that is just not the case if you want to do it right. I believe the gen2 starts with the 2006 models but I could be wrong maybe 2007. I would avoid the gen1 bikes as they might have a valve issue.

 

I will say that the FJR is awe inspiring in about third gear above 4K revs because that's where she goes into orbit if you're not paying attention.

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.02

An FJR "feels" heavier, harder to move about, different COG, compared to an RT or GS, esp the 800.

Much different.

On technical roadds, like yours, it takes more effort, body movement, etc, from what I've heard.

YMMV

Now for USA riding, esp the wide open spaces, another discussion.

Again, only IMO.

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.02

An FJR "feels" heavier, harder to move about, different COG, compared to an RT or GS, esp the 800.

Much different.

On technical roadds, like yours, it takes more effort, body movement, etc, from what I've heard.

YMMV

Now for USA riding, esp the wide open spaces, another discussion.

Again, only IMO.

 

I had a Gen2 (2006) FJR. It is not a light bike, but not much different from my R1100RT as far as moving about. Slow speed maneuvers felt quite different until I started to practice in a parking lot. After my initial practice sessions I was pleasantly surprised at how tightly I could turn. I would occasionally do some practice turns to keep my muscle memory fresh. I became very comfortable and after a while I could see no real difference in where I could go with the RT or FJR.

 

One thing that made the FJR easy to handle was that amazing engine. It has smooth power at virtually any speed in any gear. I don't ever remember stalling the engine on that bike.

 

 

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Shiny Side Up

I had a 2003 (Gen 1). Yeah they are heavy, but like most motorcycles the weight disappears as soon as you're moving. Didn't feel near as heavy as another friend's Concours.

I enjoyed my FJR a lot.

 

As eddd stated, the engine is as smooth as they come in lower or higher rpm's. It takes some getting used to, but that's common for all motorcycles.

And the bike is a rocket no doubt.

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Francois_Dumas

Haha !! I am turning 65 and although I will soon be living full time in Macho Land I am not looking for a rocket anymore.... so call me boring.

But with a bad back and slower reflexes I need a bike that's easy to handle while still managing two people and some luggage... and bad roads.

 

I LOVE my 2006 GS, but would love to gave something more modern. There IS some progress in both bikes and cars made, so I'd like to benefit while I still can.

 

TBH, the 1200GSLC would be great.... but not sure I can find an affordable one. So looking for (cheaper) alternatives. Hence the 800GS or Suzuki (or other).

 

 

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It took awhile but I finally got the suspension on my FJR dialed in and I gotta say it is nice, very nice. Went for a short ride today and I can't believe the difference. After the Russell seat build next month I will have it the way I want it. I was a bit harsh on the beast because like any bike one must get it set up to suit one. The routine maintenance also has taken getting used to but if what Consumer Reports says about Yamaha is true then maybe I might yet bond with the bike at least i hope so.

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" I need a bike that's easy to handle while still managing two people and some luggage... and bad roads."

 

What I heard from the start.

Let's focus on this folks.

Plenty of great motos out there, but, keep in mind what he wants

and doesn't.

 

Francois, Rich just got a Kawasaki versys 650 to complement his GSA.

It has ABS, excellent size luggage and is much lighter than a lot of bikes.

It wa$ not too expen$ive.

Cheap compared to new BMW'$.

:/

So far he is loving it.

He's a tall person also, and likes the fit/size/weight/handling.

:lurk:

Edited by tallman
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OK, makes sense. I kind of like the Yamaha FZ09 for its smoothness and light weight with many features like ABS and even electronic cruise control. You can get the optional Yamaha Comfort Seat for the bike which would make it nicer for both rider and passenger. Around here you can find some left over 2015 models with good discounts as well. Check out the Two Wheel Obsession web sight for good info on this bike.

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Shiny Side Up

I like the FZ09 as well... but - rode a friend's Yamaha Super Tenere about a month ago. (XT1200Z with ABS) Spoke wheels for off road riding, Wouldn't take much for me to commit "sacrilege" as well! With over 100HP, that thing really scoots down the road and weighs in at less than 600lbs wet.

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Shiny Side Up

Let me add this...

Don't know how many current hungry things you plan to power (heated gloves (or grips), vests, gps, auxiliary lights, etc.) but the alternator output is something you might want to keep in mind.

You'd be hard pressed to find a motorcycle with the output of a BMW alternator, which is more on the automotive side than motorcycle.

Other than a Honda Goldwing, which post 2006, can generate over 12K watts at 5,000 RPM, nothing really comes close. The newer "wings" are even more robust.

A stock FJR will give you about 120Watts in reserve from what it takes to run the motorcycle. (Not enough for me!)

 

Something you may want to consider, especially for 2-up riding.

 

 

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And don't forget the FJ09 which is the sport touring version of the FZ09 for a few more bucks. I checked on new 2015 FJ09's and there are about 5 close to me. A lot of bike for the bucks. Has an "O" ring chain instead of shaft drive but get yourself an automobile transmission oil pan a sash brush and a gallon of kerosene with some good quality spray on chain lube and you're good to go. I actually never minded chain maintenance. At least no blown up final drives to break the bank.

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lawnchairboy

FWIW: I recently rode an FJ09. Sport touring for short distances maybe. Motor and stock suspension very UJM, unimpressive.

 

YMMV.

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My friend I ride with has the FJ9 . I have the triumph 800 XRX. Both 15's. We both had to spend about $2000 on suspension. We both also needed a madstad windshield and sargent seat.The Triumph is smoother , shifts like butter. His shifts clunky compared to mine and his feels much more race oriented compared to mine feeling more refined. I'm not sure either one would be good for 2 up. I think the V strom 1000 or Versys 1000 will probably suit Francois better unless a good used RT or 1200 GS comes up.

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roadscholar

I'd look for a slightly used 800 Adventure or Africa Twin.

 

I've done a bunch of two-up in the mountains on the standard 800 and it's great in that arena. Has shorter gearing than the 650 or 700 causing it to be a little buzzy cruising above 70-75 though.

 

800 Adv is more different from the regular 800 than many think, people assume it's more offroad oriented but it feels more touring oriented to me, smooth and long-legged (altho haven't taken one offroad). I'd at least try one and an AT before purchasing anything.

Edited by roadscholar
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Francois_Dumas

Thanks Mike..... good info !

We don't need heated vests in Italy (although Nina does have one), and I've never run anything else but heated grips and my GPS, so should be okay. Even the heated grips I can do without now :-)

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Wow James, how many final drives have you blown up?

 

One FD and that is because BMW forgot to include a rear axle. :D

 

I agree Yamaha transmissions are a bit clunky. My FJR clunked a lot less after I removed all 9 clutch friction discs and gave them a good cleaning and an oil soak. Easy job and only takes about an hour. Only took BMW what? 90 years to figure out the wet clutch?

 

One thing that bothers me is Yamaha dealers general lack of knowledge about the FJR as in they just don't sell many at all and some of their dealers have never even seen one so often times the FJR owner is on his/her own for even routine maintenance. Now that is just not the case with BMW. Not saying all BMW dealers are created equal but I think the chances of finding dealers that are at least familiar with the product is great in comparison.

Edited by JamesW
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Hi all,

 

am contemplating (more or less forced by circumstances) to sell my 1050RT and 1200GS..... and get another bike.

Since BMW is so expensive..... I am wondering about the 800GS or V-Strom 1000. But we are mostly riding 2-up..... so not sure.

 

Any riders of those lurking around here... any thoughts ??

 

Afternoon Francois_Dumas

 

The 800GS is fun bike to ride locally, off-road, & in the twisties but sure wouldn't be on my list of 2 up motorcycles (not even the bottom of the list).

 

If you ride fast on pavement then the 800GS is kind of buzzy there also.

 

 

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