BMWSportTouring BMWST DB
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#994986 - 08/20/17 05:00 PM Speed and mistakes have no brand loyalty  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 343
Medic Mike Offline
Member
Medic Mike  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 343
Raleigh, NC
R9T Scrambler Wreck
I read the following article on the Common Tread newsletter from Revzilla:
Tiered Licenses
and have been debating how to present if here for debate and discussion. When I checked my local news this AM I saw the first article and made me ponder this approach.
I do not know what kind of gear (if any) the rider had on. Though, I work for this counties EMS system and I will tactfully try to find out more details.
So, here is the question:
Would a tiered system in the US actually reduce wrecks like these? I am going to hold off on my opine till later. I am curious as to what you, my fellow ST'ers think on this.

Mike

Last edited by Medic Mike; 08/20/17 05:09 PM.

2011 R1200RT Ostra Gray
2006 R1200RT Piedmont Red (totaled)
2004 R1150 RT-P my first love (re-homed)
FDNY-343. I will never forget.
#994991 - 08/20/17 06:37 PM Re: Speed and mistakes have no brand loyalty [Re: Medic Mike]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 661
Groanup Offline
Member
Groanup  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 661
Pasadena, CA
As far as this crash is concerned, not enough info to say whether or not tiered licensing would have made any difference. We don't know this person's experience/training level.
As far as tiered licensing, I think it's a great idea. Easy for me to say since I didn't have to go through it I suppose, but I think it would save lives.
It might even reduce the number of people "stunting" on our roads and highways.
Just yesterday I participated in a Kawasaki demo at a local dealership. Of the seven riders in my group, I was the only one with more than a year of riding experience. These people showed up on mostly 600+ cc sport bikes, and one large HD. Everybody did well, but of course we were sandwiched between two Kawasaki "pace" guys to keep us out of trouble.
The thing that I noticed though, was that the z9 (900+ CCs) time slots filled up immediately. I was the only one interested in the Versys x300 (cool little bike BTW).
Anyway, what I saw goes along with this article. Most young people get their (open class) license, and go out and get the most powerful, most sporty bike they can afford, but that's just the beginning... They also seem to believe that because they have the "Bike Of The Year" according to one rag or another, they magically become GP riders and go into the local canyons and work on "dragging a knee". My wife works at the local hospital where they get two or three coming in by Sherriff's chopper every weekend...
I started on a CB160 back in the olden days. My father, who rode a Triumph T6, wouldn't let me get anything larger than a 250. I learned a lot on that little underpowered bike. Mistakes weren't quite so big on such a small machine. In fact, I probably owe my riding longevity to that little gem.
But... What do I know?


Don R.
Beemin on a Budget
2007 R1200RT Sand Beige Metalic (Sandy)


#995013 - 08/20/17 10:24 PM Re: Speed and mistakes have no brand loyalty [Re: Medic Mike]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 343
Medic Mike Offline
Member
Medic Mike  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 343
Raleigh, NC
Don:
There was an update on the wreck, speed was the determining factor, though I am waiting to hear back from some co-workers as to details they are allowed to share on it.
If we had a tiered system in the states, I would not be riding today. I got my license at 34 and my first bike that same year, 2004 R1150RT-P. I saved for years to acquire that machine, knowing that I would only have the funds to buy one bike. With a tiered system, I would not have had the ability to upgrade to a machine that I truly wanted. Did I make some mistakes on the 1150, yes I did, though none involved speed and over confidence. I attest some of that caution to my work.


2011 R1200RT Ostra Gray
2006 R1200RT Piedmont Red (totaled)
2004 R1150 RT-P my first love (re-homed)
FDNY-343. I will never forget.
#995020 - 08/20/17 11:16 PM Re: Speed and mistakes have no brand loyalty [Re: Medic Mike]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,339
Living the Dream Offline
Member
Living the Dream  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,339
Walnut Cove, North Carolina
Meh, I went over two years riding before I got me an NC endorsement.


Richard
Laborare pugnare paratus sum
2014 HP4
2010 Shadow RS
2006 R1200rt
PRC-E7
#995022 - 08/21/17 12:55 AM Re: Speed and mistakes have no brand loyalty [Re: Medic Mike]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 661
Groanup Offline
Member
Groanup  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 661
Pasadena, CA
Originally Posted By: Medic Mike
Don:
There was an update on the wreck, speed was the determining factor, though I am waiting to hear back from some co-workers as to details they are allowed to share on it.
If we had a tiered system in the states, I would not be riding today. I got my license at 34 and my first bike that same year, 2004 R1150RT-P. I saved for years to acquire that machine, knowing that I would only have the funds to buy one bike. With a tiered system, I would not have had the ability to upgrade to a machine that I truly wanted. Did I make some mistakes on the 1150, yes I did, though none involved speed and over confidence. I attest some of that caution to my work.

I imagine you can attest some of that to your age and level of maturity as well. I remember having neither caution nor maturity at the age of 16 when I purchased my first bike. Yours is a rare case!
I also believe that in a tiered system, most would plan their moto purchases differently, and ultimately reach their goal.
I think it would benefit the motorcycle industry as well. The manufacturers would bring their smaller offerings into the US and sell a ton of small unintimidating bikes to the folks that would like to try it, but are maybe nervous about getting on a high HP (and high dollar) bike. The ones who don't like it will sell their small bikes to other interested people, and get out of riding, which I see as a good thing. Those who find they enjoy riding, will qualify for and buy larger bikes. They will also know better how to handle them safely (if the tiered system is working correctly).
Anyhow, this all makes sense to me, but I'm just a pressman, and don't claim to have any extra special insight...
I'm glad you were able to get the bike you want and learn how to ride it without any major mishaps! smile


Don R.
Beemin on a Budget
2007 R1200RT Sand Beige Metalic (Sandy)


#995025 - 08/21/17 01:08 AM Re: Speed and mistakes have no brand loyalty [Re: Living the Dream]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 94
BigTup Offline
Member
BigTup  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 94
Ca.
I'll complicate this topic with an opinion that less government interference is better. I detest more programs, rules, regulations. I also think that the majority of population knows that they don't belong on a bike. You can also thank wives, and girlfriends that can see that their man is one of them, as they usually rule the roost. The small percent of riders that don't belong as riders, but give it a go anyway are the problem. Reminds me of cigarettes. There is plenty of evidence why not to smoke, but cigarettes sell like crazy anyway. You can't stop it. It's that the laws are written for the lowest common denominator.


I keep thinking about it, but I keep forgetting what I was thinking about!
16 R1200RT
09 R1200RT gone
08 Harley Super Glide gone (and missed!)
80's Honda 900F gone
About 8 Dirt Bikes...Yes, I'm Old.
#995031 - 08/21/17 03:51 AM Re: Speed and mistakes have no brand loyalty [Re: Medic Mike]  
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 455
Red Offline
Member
Red  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 455
Burns, OR
A multi step system would work. Define work. I believe overall there would be the same number of injuries and fatalities. In a 3 step system the beginners would have the most accidents, middle fewer, and the large bikes the fewest. Riding with your 'buddies' would be more difficult because several may be at different levels causing real complications finding rides fun for all levels. One thing for sure, you'd have way fewer people touring on large bikes. A. Because fewer would progress to level 3. B. Because getting to level three would be too expensive for many riders. Your national rallies would be real folksy gatherings.


Red,
Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
#995032 - 08/21/17 08:59 AM Re: Speed and mistakes have no brand loyalty [Re: Medic Mike]  
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 12
NewportCycle Offline
Newer Member
NewportCycle  Offline
Newer Member

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 12
Central Maine
Seems to me there is little wrong with the current system we have now, I do not see "countless lives" being sacrificed on the highway's due to inexperienced drivers, but maybe I'm not looking at things correctly. So far, we've not been able to legislate common sense into the masses; if you are not smart enough to know your limits and operate within them before receiving training, no rules, training, or temporary limits to your eventual tool of destruction will save you from your own ignorance at any point in the future. In the mean time, these well intention-ed rules will hinder the progress of the thoughtful individual from the expression of his freedom of interference from an over regulated state.


So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains and never even know we have the key.
#995036 - 08/21/17 12:37 PM Re: Speed and mistakes have no brand loyalty [Re: Medic Mike]  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,285
Selden Offline
Member
Selden  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,285
Atlanta, GA
A multi-tiered system couldn't help but reduce the problem, and as Don observes, it would probably provide a big impetus to importing smaller bikes.

I bought a Yamaha XT225 last year, and it is far more fun on twisty mountain roads than my R1100RT. There are some great 250cc bikes that are not available in this country, like the Honda VTR250.



Don't fix it if it ain't broke, don't break it if you can't fix it.
#995049 - 08/21/17 02:21 PM Re: Speed and mistakes have no brand loyalty [Re: NewportCycle]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 664
Traveler1 Offline
Member
Traveler1  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 664
SF Bay Area
Agree totally with NewportCycle's comment. While tiered systems do work in Europe, they are also a bar to people with limited income getting a permit because of the high cost. In Europe good public transportation makes not being able to afford the cost of a permit less of a burden.

Motorcycle training programs are essential, but proposals to institute a system where the training programs are mandated and tiers multiply the times a person must undergo training are (or would become) just another way to pick our pockets. The pick pockets being local governments, schools etc. California fees and charges for anything to do with motor vehicles have become a way to tax people rather than a way to cover costs.

Never took a course and am still alive and kicking after 60 years of riding more miles than most people ever think about. Training is good - training tied to government restrictions and rules would be a disaster.


Thor

K1200GT
R100GS
R1200GS
Honda Africa Twin (sold)
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 15 (0.002s) Memory: 2.8067 MB (Peak: 2.9947 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-12-15 19:37:25 UTC