Bud Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) Well, I did almost everything right except................................................ In the picture there are two fittings onto which two internal hoses in the tank attach. Everything else is marked and can not be hooked up backwards except for those two hoses. So asking for the collective wisdom of the forum to give me the right answer. 2003 R 1150 R Has had Canisterectomy and external fuel filter modification performed . Thanks in advance for correct answers. Edited October 20, 2017 by Bud Link to comment
greiffster Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Don't both of those go to the filler neck? One is the vent and the other is the overflow? Probably doesn't matter?? Yeah, don't listen to me. Link to comment
John Ranalletta Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Does this help? Link to comment
dirtrider Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Evening Bud John posted a very good picture of what you are dealing with (the outside fitting is the filler neck water drain) OK, now for options-- If you don't have the emission evap can on the right rear of your bike (that ugly black can) then both small hoses running to the rear should be running to just behind the R/H riders foot peg. (if this is the case with your bike then it makes no difference on what hose uses what pass though nipple). If your bike has the factory evap can then it does matter as you sure don't want the filler neck water drain draining into the evap system. On the two small hoses inside the fuel tank--- blow some air through both-- one hose should have air coming out of the small hole in the tank filler neck outer ring (just outside of the main filler hole) THAT HOSE must go to behind the R/H foot peg, so when hooking the hoses up blow though the hose & MAKE DARN SURE that the filler water drain goes to behind the R/H foot peg. The small hose going to the filler neck INSIDE OF THE FUEL TANK goes to that back evap can on rear of motorcycle. (so blow though the hose at rear of bike & make sure the the air comes out INSIDE the fuel tank (this is very important) Again, if your bike doesn't have that black evap can then both hoses should end up going behind the R/H foot peg so nipple selection & hose position makes no difference. Link to comment
Bud Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 Thanks John & DR. No can so easy peasy. I knew I could count on members here to help an old man out . Link to comment
Bud Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) OK. So I got everything connected back up, tank on the bike, hoses connected, wire to pump connected. With bike in neutral and the clutch pulled in, I turned the key, pump doesn't cycle. Engine turns over. Disconnected pump at connector just above the FI on the left side. Jumped the pump from the battery to the connector from the fuel plate. Pump runs. Both fuel pump and motronic fuses are good. Also swapped out horn relay with fuel pump relay and motronic relay. Pump still does not come on when key is turned on. Any suggestions from the brain trust? Edited October 26, 2017 by Bud Link to comment
Cap Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 ... Jumped the pump from the battery to the connector from the fuel plate. Pump runs.... Pump still does not come on when key is turned on. Have you tried to use a voltmeter to measure the voltage at the connector? If you see 12v when you turn the key on, but the pump doesn't run unless you jump it, then it sort of argues that you haven't got that connector completely jammed together. Link to comment
Bud Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 Yes I did, no voltage at the connector. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 OK. So I got everything connected back up, tank on the bike, hoses connected, wire to pump connected. With bike in neutral and the clutch pulled in, I turned the key, pump doesn't cycle. Engine turns over. Disconnected pump at connector just above the FI on the left side. Jumped the pump from the battery to the connector from the fuel plate. Pump runs. Both fuel pump and motronic fuses are good. Also swapped out horn relay with fuel pump relay and motronic relay. Pump still does not come on when key is turned on. Any suggestions from the brain trust? Evening Bud The pump ONLY runs for about 2 seconds at key-on then times out until the starter is cranking (any chance that you are missing the 2 seconds of run?) If the pump just won't run at key-on then is the side stand UP? Otherwise check for 12v at pump relay socket cavity (6) or terminal 30 on relay. Then check for 12v at cavity (10) terminal 86. If the above are good then check for 12v on green wire at one of the fuel injectors with key-on (should have 2 seconds at key-on then 12v all the time with engine cranking. Link to comment
Bud Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 (edited) With the bike in neutral and the clutch in, does the side stand still have to be up to have the fuel pump cycle? I have the fuel plate out of the bike and plugged in so I know it is not getting power. I also didn't hear it when it was in the tank. While trying to figure it out in Blairsville, many people listened and heard it cycle upon power up. Other thoughts while we are contemplating this problem: Does there have to be a certain amount of fuel in the tank for the pump to cycle when powered up? Would having very little fuel in the tank make any difference? Should it cycle when not in the tank but connected? Edited October 27, 2017 by Bud Link to comment
Bud Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) YEP ! To start or to have the starter turn over without starting? I asked a BMW mechanic about the possibility of a bad side stand switch and he said it make any difference. Hmmmmm............ Edited October 27, 2017 by Bud Link to comment
Bud Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Evening Bud The pump ONLY runs for about 2 seconds at key-on then times out until the starter is cranking (any chance that you are missing the 2 seconds of run?) If the pump just won't run at key-on then is the side stand UP? Otherwise check for 12v at pump relay socket cavity (6) or terminal 30 on relay. Then check for 12v at cavity (10) terminal 86. If the above are good then check for 12v on green wire at one of the fuel injectors with key-on (should have 2 seconds at key-on then 12v all the time with engine cranking. DR Please bear with me. I'm not sure when you say cavity 6 if you mean the place where the pump relay plugs in or somewhere else. I pulled the relay and there was no contact marked terminal 30. Cavity in the attached pic, item 10 is the turn signal relay. Can you help straighten me out on exactly where I should be looking? Thanks 1150 r wiring diagram Link to comment
Bud Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Well I decided to see if the side stand switch was bad. Used a jumper and found out that the pump would cycle when the wires were jumped. Too late tonight to put the pump back in the tank. Will do that first thing tomorrow. Try to fire it up and see what happens. Hoping for the best. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) Well I decided to see if the side stand switch was bad. Used a jumper and found out that the pump would cycle when the wires were jumped. Too late tonight to put the pump back in the tank. Will do that first thing tomorrow. Try to fire it up and see what happens. Hoping for the best. Morning Bud First thing-- If you keep running that pump without it immersed in fuel to cool & lubricate it you WILL be replacing the fuel pump (they only last a VERY short time when powered up outside the fuel tank) On your (possible) side stand switch problem. Your side stand switch has 2 positions & 2 separate ground paths. The first is side stand UP-- with side stand up it is straight forward as it switches the Motronic power-relay pull-in coil low side to ground. (very simple circuit, if side stand isn't up the then Motronic relay doesn't power the Motronic). Now with side stand down it gets more complicated as that breaks the simple Motronic power-relay pull-in coil low side to ground so it needs to see a low or ground from a different location. That different location is through the transmission gear position switch neutral-light low (ground) circuit. BUT!, it can't go directly through the transmission gear position switch neutral circuit to ground or that would keep the neutral light lit at half brightness. So, there is a diode in the harness to make the side-stand-down only flow power one way & not allow effect on the neutral light. There are a number of possible faults that can happen with the side stand switch or circuit-- The number one is a failed side stand switch. That can fail to a condition of totally open so it won't allow the Motronic relay to power up. It can also fail to allow ONLY starting with side stand up. If the side stand switch hasn't failed then the isolation diode in the neutral circuit can fail to ONLY allow starting with the side stand UP. Or the wire between the side stand switch & the trans neutral switch can go open & not allow starting with side stand down. Once you get the engine running you can tell a lot by how the side stand position effects the engine running in neutral & when put into gear as well as neutral light operation. Edited October 27, 2017 by dirtrider Link to comment
Bud Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Thanks for the additional info DR. I hope that the 2 second start up wasn't enough to ruin the pump. When I hooked it directly to the battery, I only touched the clip to the pump just long enough to know that it was operational so I think I will be OK. You have helped me on more than one occasion as well as the many others that you have patiently and logically explained how our motorcycles work. THANK YOU! :clap: Link to comment
Bud Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Buttoned back up and running again. Now to put another 23 miles on it before something else happens. Link to comment
szurszewski Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Buttoned back up and running again. Now to put another 23 miles on it before something else happens. That should get you almost to the gas station in...uh....wait....I'll remember....Coulterville and then back. Better hook up the trailer before you go though, just in case Nancy needs to come get you... Link to comment
greiffster Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Buttoned back up and running again. Now to put :clap:another 23 miles on it before something else happens. :clap:.... Link to comment
Bud Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Buttoned back up and running again. Now to put another 23 miles on it before something else happens. That should get you almost to the gas station in...uh....wait....I'll remember....Coulterville and then back. Better hook up the trailer before you go though, just in case Nancy needs to come get you... No kidding, considering my history with this bike, I shouldn't go very far from home for a while. Link to comment
brianh70 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Buttoned back up and running again. Now to put another 23 miles on it before something else happens. Wait...So it WAS the side stand switch? Link to comment
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