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#1000994 - 11/16/17 01:48 AM Wheel balancing question  
Joined: Jan 2003
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BeemerBerg Offline
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BeemerBerg  Offline
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Kanab, Utah
I mounted a new tire on my TPMS-equipped front wheel, then threw it on my Marc Pranes static wheel balancer (love it). In order to balance the tire, it would require seven 1/4 oz stick on weights—2-1/4 oz! Seemed like a lot, and looked obscene on rim.
Then it dawned on me—that TPMS sensor must be counter balanced. So I removed tire and balanced ONLY the wheel. Six stick-on weights — 3 + 3 on each side of INSIDE of wheel (the ‘valley’). The wheel alone is now dead bang balanced! Remounted & rebalanced wheel with tire attached, and it needed only 1/4 + 1/8 oz (yea, I’m anal).
Question for the collective: is this good practice to mount weights INSIDE the wheel? The stickey backing seems really grippy, and of course the surface was meticulously cleaned before application. Is there any chance centrifugal/centripical force will fling the weights off the rim as I approach warp speed?
Please don’t sell me Dyna Beads.


--Ken G�tzen-Berg

2005 R1200RT ("Baron") [still going strong @ 125,000 miles]
2010 R1200RT ("Zigfried")
2016 R1200RTW ("Ludwig"}
#1000997 - 11/16/17 02:58 AM Re: Wheel balancing question [Re: BeemerBerg]  
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elkroeger Offline
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elkroeger  Offline
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Rochester WA
You should try this: Dynabeads

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Certainly at some critical speed the weights will come off. Ten years from now, that speed might be lower than what it is this week. How fast is that? No idea. Faster than you'll ever go doesn't sound like an unreasonable guess though.

The main thing, in my mind, is the possibility of partially or completely dislodging the internal weights while mounting the tire. And then once it's mounted on the bike, how do you tell that it has come loose? If it was me, I'd just stick them on the outside and forget about it.


I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

Eric
#1001004 - 11/16/17 12:26 PM Re: Wheel balancing question [Re: BeemerBerg]  
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dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
dirtrider  Offline
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Ohio
Originally Posted by BeemerBerg
I mounted a new tire on my TPMS-equipped front wheel, then threw it on my Marc Pranes static wheel balancer (love it). In order to balance the tire, it would require seven 1/4 oz stick on weights—2-1/4 oz! Seemed like a lot, and looked obscene on rim.
Then it dawned on me—that TPMS sensor must be counter balanced. So I removed tire and balanced ONLY the wheel. Six stick-on weights — 3 + 3 on each side of INSIDE of wheel (the ‘valley’). The wheel alone is now dead bang balanced! Remounted & rebalanced wheel with tire attached, and it needed only 1/4 + 1/8 oz (yea, I’m anal).
Question for the collective: is this good practice to mount weights INSIDE the wheel? The stickey backing seems really grippy, and of course the surface was meticulously cleaned before application. Is there any chance centrifugal/centripical force will fling the weights off the rim as I approach warp speed?
Please don’t sell me Dyna Beads.


Morning BeemerBerg

When putting stick-on weights on the inside of the wheel the centrifugal forces are trying to fling the weights off-- (when mounted on the outside of the rim the centrifugal forces are trying to make the weights stick tighter).

With a squeaky clean wheel surface & good moderately new double sided tape on the wheel weights you will probably get by until next tire change but excessive heat in the wheel & very high speed (high centrifugal force) plus rough roads could dislodge the weights.

I have put wheel weights on the inside of alloy auto wheels before (special show cars) but that was only for short term events so I have no idea on how long they stayed put. Even then I used Gorilla Snot (Fast Tack) to secure the wheel weights & duct tape over the weights.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#1001007 - 11/16/17 01:57 PM Re: Wheel balancing question [Re: BeemerBerg]  
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Chris K Offline
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Chris K  Offline
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Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by BeemerBerg
I mounted a new tire on my TPMS-equipped front wheel, then threw it on my Marc Pranes static wheel balancer (love it). In order to balance the tire, it would require seven 1/4 oz stick on weights—2-1/4 oz! Seemed like a lot, and looked obscene on rim.
Then it dawned on me—that TPMS sensor must be counter balanced. So I removed tire and balanced ONLY the wheel. Six stick-on weights — 3 + 3 on each side of INSIDE of wheel (the ‘valley’). The wheel alone is now dead bang balanced! Remounted & rebalanced wheel with tire attached, and it needed only 1/4 + 1/8 oz (yea, I’m anal).
Question for the collective: is this good practice to mount weights INSIDE the wheel? The stickey backing seems really grippy, and of course the surface was meticulously cleaned before application. Is there any chance centrifugal/centripical force will fling the weights off the rim as I approach warp speed?
Please don’t sell me Dyna Beads.


I have been balancing my rims in this manner for the last 15 years. When I first started I did put duct tape over the weights as a safety measure but the glue on the duct tape deteriorated over time and I stopped doing this. My previous R1200GS had over 65K miles on the weights and they were still firmly stuck on the rim.


Chris Kinney
Atlanta, GA
'13 R1200GSW
'79 GS1000S
#1001010 - 11/16/17 02:57 PM Re: Wheel balancing question [Re: BeemerBerg]  
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Paul De Offline
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Paul De  Offline
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Milwaukee Wisconsin, USA
So in my work life I create adhesives and have developed PSA adhesives (tape glue). For sure physics isn't in your favor, but the right adhesive can survive in this application the post by Chris confirms that in his case it has worked. On factor in your favor is the force to remove is perpendicular to the bonded PSA, so the force per unit area is greatly reduced. The other is around the brand of weight tapes and the specific adhesive chemistry they use as I am certain all weight tapes are not created equal. Buy quality. Because the first place the manufacturer will cut cost to hit a price point will be the glue. Chances are unless you are buying from some really suspect source at a big discount to the going price the glue will be good by virtue of the fact these weights are typically applied on the outside and the liability of a weight being flung off a spinning wheel and hurting someone keeps the manufacturers from getting too careless with the adhesive system specification.

Clean surface prep is key to good bonding and I can tell you that the majority of failures I have addressed with our customer base has been due to a contaminated surface, either the surface to be bonded to or the adhesive itself...keep your oily finger off the glue or substrate to be bonded to. It takes only a few microns of a contaminate to mess up the bond. Crud, corrosion and even a cleaning solution that leaves residue must be avoided. If the surface has any corrosion, steel wool it off, and soft brush off loose wool fibers. Then mineral spirits to remove oily grime followed by denatured ethanol to any remove trace amounts of mineral spirits should get you to a pristine surface.

Happy bonding
Dr. Glue


If the good old days were so damn good, why did we bother to invent modern times?

Most missed bike: Bultaco Sherpa T 326
#1001018 - 11/16/17 04:12 PM Re: Wheel balancing question [Re: BeemerBerg]  
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BeemerBerg Offline
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BeemerBerg  Offline
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Posts: 300
Kanab, Utah
After careful consideration, it seems to come down to physics, faith & time. I will remove the weights from inside of rim, rebalance rim only with new weights on OUTSIDE. These will remain as the baseline balance of the wheel; additional weights added once tire is mounted— ‘variable’, probably at a different point on the rim.
I don’t want to spend my Riding time worrying. And I’m getting REALLY good at mounting/dismounting.
Hope this exercise helps others.


--Ken G�tzen-Berg

2005 R1200RT ("Baron") [still going strong @ 125,000 miles]
2010 R1200RT ("Zigfried")
2016 R1200RTW ("Ludwig"}
#1001085 - 11/17/17 04:39 PM Re: Wheel balancing question [Re: BeemerBerg]  
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RPG Offline
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RPG  Offline
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Detroit Metro Area
with older type tires that had the mark for the light spot, I would first put the rim, with rotors on my balance stand (valve stem too) and find the heavy part of the rim.

I would mark that and align it to the light mark on the tire. That usually resulted in minimal weights being added.

Nowadays, tires are balanced better from the factory. I haven't seen balance marks on Michelin Pilot Road 4's at least

I just mount the tire where it falls and still I'm only adding a few ounces of weight overall.

RPG


Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future.

Ayn Rand

#1001324 - 11/21/17 01:03 PM Re: Wheel balancing question [Re: BeemerBerg]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 33
Craig G. Offline
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Craig G.  Offline
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Regardig tape... the best I've ever used is 3M body side moulding tape intended for automotive trim. Never had a failure in dozens of different applications.

#1001326 - 11/21/17 01:51 PM Re: Wheel balancing question [Re: Craig G.]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,730
realshelby Offline
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realshelby  Offline
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Houston, Tx
Originally Posted by Craig G.
Regardig tape... the best I've ever used is 3M body side moulding tape intended for automotive trim. Never had a failure in dozens of different applications.



If you think that is good, try 3M Adhesion promoter on the surface your tape ( any brand or type ) is going to be applied to. Incredible adhesion when using this stuff!


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