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#1001900 - 12/03/17 11:17 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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MikeB60 Online
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Thanks again for the help!

Bypassed the FPC again, bike seemed to run fine.

Reinstalled the FPC and captured the attached data. Data Log


'13 K1600GT
'16 R1200GS
'04 Yamaha FZ1
#1001901 - 12/04/17 12:21 AM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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dirtrider Offline
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Originally Posted by MikeB60
Thanks again for the help!

Bypassed the FPC again, bike seemed to run fine.

Reinstalled the FPC and captured the attached data. Data Log


Evening MikeB60

On the FPC by-pass vs known good FPC-- I'm not sure IF the fueling computer is commanding the incorrect fuel pump current, or it is commanding the correct fuel pump current but the pump just can't supply enough fuel at the commanded current. (might need a fuel pump output test to understand this)

I took a quick look at your trapped data (can't see enough categories on my little laptop to tell much at a glance)-- I will take a better look on big screen tomorrow. I will also ask Roger to view the data.

I still see the negative engine loads at high injector times but I'm not sure if the trapped data is registering in real time across all cells or there is a delay in keeping up. (if the data is all in the same (exact) time frame then it shows some lean areas.

Lets see if Roger can spot any anomalies.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#1001902 - 12/04/17 01:09 AM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: dirtrider]  
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Originally Posted by dirtrider
Originally Posted by MikeB60
Thanks again for the help!

Bypassed the FPC again, bike seemed to run fine.

Reinstalled the FPC and captured the attached data. Data Log


Evening MikeB60

On the FPC by-pass vs known good FPC-- I'm not sure IF the fueling computer is commanding the incorrect fuel pump current, or it is commanding the correct fuel pump current but the pump just can't supply enough fuel at the commanded current. (might need a fuel pump output test to understand this)

I took a quick look at your trapped data (can't see enough categories on my little laptop to tell much at a glance)-- I will take a better look on big screen tomorrow. I will also ask Roger to view the data.

I still see the negative engine loads at high injector times but I'm not sure if the trapped data is registering in real time across all cells or there is a delay in keeping up. (if the data is all in the same (exact) time frame then it shows some lean areas.

Lets see if Roger can spot any anomalies.



Thanks!


'13 K1600GT
'16 R1200GS
'04 Yamaha FZ1
#1001917 - 12/04/17 12:10 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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dirtrider Offline
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Morning MikeB60

A quick question: any idea on how much throttle that you used for your last data trap? Did you at any time go to 100% (WOT) throttle or just limit throttle to about 1/2?


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#1001918 - 12/04/17 12:59 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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Hi DR,

Thanks for the FPC explanation (by PM). So the BMSK sends a blind command to the FPC based on the minimum output that the engineers specified for the fuel pump.

The data, the fact that the bike runs with the FPC bypassed and the other symptoms are pointing to insufficient fuel flow at higher engine loads (40% throttle valve is pretty large). I spotted a new symptom in the log, the lambda sensor voltages indicate very lean (<<100mV) whenever there is a double-negative engine load in the GS-911 data. Not only is the engine load negative, indicating the engine isn't producing power, the exhaust is also lean. To me, both point to a lack of fuel (since ignition is ruled out by the FPC bypass).

Based on the observations and symptoms, I see some possibilities:

1. Since swapping the FPC didn't help, the fuel pump may not be able to deliver full fuel.
2. There is a blockage in the fuel supply, either the pump or injectors.
3. The BMSK isn't commanding enough fuel or the wiring between the BMSK and FPC is faulty.

Roger

Last edited by roger 04 rt; 12/04/17 12:59 PM.
#1001932 - 12/04/17 03:18 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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dirtrider Offline
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Morning MikeB60

I'm still pondering "why" the steppers are staying linked to the same counts when you run with the FPC by-passed & why they don't seem to link & travel together above idle in the data where the engine is acting up. (by-passing the FPC m-i-g-h-t be forcing some sort of back-up operation???)

I guess if were my bike that I was having this problem with then my next move would be to do a fuel flow & pressure test, or at least remove the pump & look for a plugging inlet strainer (internal fuel filter is non replaceable/ strainer is replaceable). So far it's sort of pointing to a fueling issue. (see Rogers post above)

And/Or I would rig up a piece of clear hose in the fuel return line then see if I was getting some fuel return when the problem is occurring. (might show/tell us something)

Might even hook up a small 12v light bulb to the fuel pump (+) (-) wires (between FPC & pump) then see how bright the bulb glows during riding & at WOT vs the problem operating range (again, might show us something but I'm not sure what)


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#1001943 - 12/04/17 07:18 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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Afternoon DR,

I had a look at a 2010 R1200GS data log I have and also all of Mike's data. I can't say for sure but I think the divergences have to do with the Tank Vent state. Since only the left TB is used as a source of air, when it is open, its stepper count varies a lot. On the other hand when the Tank Vent function is 0, closed, the stepper counts tend to align.

#1001947 - 12/04/17 08:38 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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dirtrider Offline
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt
Afternoon DR,

I had a look at a 2010 R1200GS data log I have and also all of Mike's data. I can't say for sure but I think the divergences have to do with the Tank Vent state. Since only the left TB is used as a source of air, when it is open, its stepper count varies a lot. On the other hand when the Tank Vent function is 0, closed, the stepper counts tend to align.


Afternoon Roger

That is probably true in the 2k & under RPM range but above 2500 RPM's on the Hexhead & Camhead I usually see the steppers link to a single (common commanded) count number then act as throttle followers (basically a dash pot) from about 2500 RPM's up.

From what I have seen in the past (multiple 1200 bikes) is: under 2400 RPM's the steppers act independently & over 2450-2500 RPM's the stepper count becomes common & follows throttle up & down. I would imagine (don't know the full reason) that having the steppers act as throttle followers prevents sudden dropped throttle stalls & could also be used to smooth the shifts as open & common stepper counts would delay engine RPM dip or drop during the shifts.

This is based on what I have seen in the past but for sure I haven't looked at ALL the software/firmware iterations that BMW has on the 1200 bikes.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#1001949 - 12/04/17 09:22 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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Afternoon DR, That makes good sense. I do know that the BMSK and Motronic keep track of the rotational speed of the engine for each revolution. It may be that when Mike's fuel delivery problems start, the rotational speed varies enough to get the stepper algorithm involved. This is purely a supposition on my part though.

#1001952 - 12/04/17 10:37 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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MikeB60 Online
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Originally Posted by dirtrider
Morning MikeB60

A quick question: any idea on how much throttle that you used for your last data trap? Did you at any time go to 100% (WOT) throttle or just limit throttle to about 1/2?


Sorry, just logged on, been traveling today. Don't think there were any WOT data in the last trap.


'13 K1600GT
'16 R1200GS
'04 Yamaha FZ1
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