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#1001953 - 12/04/17 10:52 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: dirtrider]  
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MikeB60 Offline
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Originally Posted by dirtrider
Morning MikeB60

I'm still pondering "why" the steppers are staying linked to the same counts when you run with the FPC by-passed & why they don't seem to link & travel together above idle in the data where the engine is acting up. (by-passing the FPC m-i-g-h-t be forcing some sort of back-up operation???)

I guess if were my bike that I was having this problem with then my next move would be to do a fuel flow & pressure test, or at least remove the pump & look for a plugging inlet strainer (internal fuel filter is non replaceable/ strainer is replaceable). So far it's sort of pointing to a fueling issue. (see Rogers post above)
I'm out of town till Friday but once I get home, I will pull the pump and see what the strainer looks like. I believe that I have a RepROM for the camhead, I assume it has the flow rate for the pump?

And/Or I would rig up a piece of clear hose in the fuel return line then see if I was getting some fuel return when the problem is occurring. (might show/tell us something)
Got it, let me see where step one gets us.

Might even hook up a small 12v light bulb to the fuel pump (+) (-) wires (between FPC & pump) then see how bright the bulb glows during riding & at WOT vs the problem operating range (again, might show us something but I'm not sure what)


'13 K1600GT
'16 R1200GS
'04 Yamaha FZ1
#1001954 - 12/04/17 10:58 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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MikeB60 Offline
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt
Hi DR,

Thanks for the FPC explanation (by PM). So the BMSK sends a blind command to the FPC based on the minimum output that the engineers specified for the fuel pump.

The data, the fact that the bike runs with the FPC bypassed and the other symptoms are pointing to insufficient fuel flow at higher engine loads (40% throttle valve is pretty large). I spotted a new symptom in the log, the lambda sensor voltages indicate very lean (<<100mV) whenever there is a double-negative engine load in the GS-911 data. Not only is the engine load negative, indicating the engine isn't producing power, the exhaust is also lean. To me, both point to a lack of fuel (since ignition is ruled out by the FPC bypass).

Based on the observations and symptoms, I see some possibilities:

1. Since swapping the FPC didn't help, the fuel pump may not be able to deliver full fuel.
2. There is a blockage in the fuel supply, either the pump or injectors.
3. The BMSK isn't commanding enough fuel or the wiring between the BMSK and FPC is faulty.

Roger


Thanks Roger. I'm going to look at the fuel pump this weekend and do a check of the wireing as well.


'13 K1600GT
'16 R1200GS
'04 Yamaha FZ1
#1001963 - 12/05/17 12:15 AM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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dirtrider Offline
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Originally Posted by MikeB60




I guess if were my bike that I was having this problem with then my next move would be to do a fuel flow & pressure test, or at least remove the pump & look for a plugging inlet strainer (internal fuel filter is non replaceable/ strainer is replaceable). So far it's sort of pointing to a fueling issue. (see Rogers post above)
I'm out of town till Friday but once I get home, I will pull the pump and see what the strainer looks like. I believe that I have a RepROM for the camhead, I assume it has the flow rate for the pump?


Evening MikeB60

I doubt that you will find the flow rate but you should find the pressure (I think 4-bar).

On the flow rate I usually run the pump at a full 12v then see how much fuel is coming back through the return line. If you HAVE return flow then you know it has enough pressure to open the regulator relief valve (I think pressure regulator is set to 4 bar (58 psi). If you have a decent return flow then you know the pump can deliver full regulated fuel pressure & still allow a decent return flow (that return flow is what is available to run the engine, so nice return flow stream is what you are looking for)

Last edited by dirtrider; 12/05/17 12:16 AM.

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#1001965 - 12/05/17 12:29 AM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: dirtrider]  
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MikeB60 Offline
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Originally Posted by dirtrider
Originally Posted by MikeB60




I guess if were my bike that I was having this problem with then my next move would be to do a fuel flow & pressure test, or at least remove the pump & look for a plugging inlet strainer (internal fuel filter is non replaceable/ strainer is replaceable). So far it's sort of pointing to a fueling issue. (see Rogers post above)
I'm out of town till Friday but once I get home, I will pull the pump and see what the strainer looks like. I believe that I have a RepROM for the camhead, I assume it has the flow rate for the pump?


Evening MikeB60

I doubt that you will find the flow rate but you should find the pressure (I think 4-bar).

On the flow rate I usually run the pump at a full 12v then see how much fuel is coming back through the return line. If you HAVE return flow then you know it has enough pressure to open the regulator relief valve (I think pressure regulator is set to 4 bar (58 psi). If you have a decent return flow then you know the pump can deliver full regulated fuel pressure & still allow a decent return flow (that return flow is what is available to run the engine, so nice return flow stream is what you are looking for)

Got it, thanks


'13 K1600GT
'16 R1200GS
'04 Yamaha FZ1
#1001970 - 12/05/17 01:29 AM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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MichiganBob Offline
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Good Lord, I feel like I'm riding in the subway in Russia. But what I can understand is really interesting. Carry on to a positive resolution.

#1001980 - 12/05/17 12:33 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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roger 04 rt Online
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The R1100 and R1150 bikes have a return flow under the conditions that DR described of about a half gallon per minute with the bike idling, which means the fuel pump receives about 14V. Because the Camhead is a higher horsepower bike I would expect the same return flow or slightly more. If you get a half gallon in a minute, your bike will have enough fuel from the pump for full HP.

#1001985 - 12/05/17 02:31 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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MikeB60 Offline
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt
The R1100 and R1150 bikes have a return flow under the conditions that DR described of about a half gallon per minute with the bike idling, which means the fuel pump receives about 14V. Because the Camhead is a higher horsepower bike I would expect the same return flow or slightly more. If you get a half gallon in a minute, your bike will have enough fuel from the pump for full HP.

Roger, thanks!


'13 K1600GT
'16 R1200GS
'04 Yamaha FZ1
#1002353 - 12/14/17 08:47 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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MikeB60 Offline
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Smiths Station, AL
Well, it's finally fixed. Had very little return fuel flow. Pulled the fuel pump assembly, the sock looked fine so I replaced the pump. Runs great!

I am going to log some data now that it's fixed.

Big thanks to DR and Roger this was a head scratcher for me.


'13 K1600GT
'16 R1200GS
'04 Yamaha FZ1
#1002373 - 12/15/17 01:08 PM Re: Poor running 2010 RT [Re: MikeB60]  
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roger 04 rt Online
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Naples FL & Cape Cod
If you could bypass the fuel controller and measure return flow on the new pump you’d give us all some a good data point and have a reference for the future.

And it would be good to get a similar GS-911 data set so we could look at the engine load data with the new pump. You should also reset all adaptive values which may have been skewed while the pump wasn’t working.

Last edited by roger 04 rt; 12/15/17 01:10 PM.
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