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#1002969 - 12/31/17 02:33 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: Bernie]  
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Bernie Offline
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Bernie  Offline
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Jax, FL
Originally Posted by Bernie
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt
Originally Posted by Bernie
Yes Terry, I can fully agree with you. I have never had a handling problem due to the 50 liter Top Case on my 2007 RT. It handled great at any speed and any load.
The 2018 RT with Metzler Z8 tires inflated to 36 psi front and 42 psi rear at a cold temperature of 60 degrees F (BMW’s idea of cold tire temperature), handle like they are glued to the road.
In 2,600 miles I have not detected any in-stability of any kind or any noises using these tires on my 2018 RT-LC. And if you have ever traveled with me, you know I am not exactly a slow rider (38 mpg).


Too bad we’re at opposite ends of the state. Was your bike delivered with Metzler Z8 tires? I wonder why bmw changed them from one year to the next.

I test drove a 2018 at another dealer a couple weeks ago and didn’t notice any wiggle at all.


My 2018 was delivered with the Metzler Z8’s which is a strange thing anyway, as Metzler’s newest tires are the RoadTec01 which are a replacement for the Z8. But I guess inventory at the factory has to be used up.
I am going for a ride tomorrow and decided to increase my front tire air pressure to 40 psi, to see what I have been missing.
Roger please understand that after wearing out several Pilot Road 4’s, including the heavyweight compounds I have never been a big fan of the Michelin tires.
I rather have the Pirelli Angel GT, with A compound. They don’t last as long as the Michelin’s, but they feel more planted.


Ok here is the results of increasing the front tire pressure from 36 psi in a 60 degree garage to 40 psi.
I rode 200 miles in 46 F degree weather (overcast and moist) of lots of different roads and different road surfaces, new, old, rough, gouged, sandy, dirty, concrete and curvy roads. I rode at lots of different speeds as I always do, including double of some speed limits.
NO noticeable difference, except when I pushed the bike out of the garage in the morning, it felt a little easier.
I will keep it at the higher pressure, as it may help with how fast the tires wear, but my 2018 RT is rock steady, even in blasts from 18 wheelers coming the other way or in drafts at interstate speeds+.
As of side winds, we don't get a lot of real bad weather here in Florida, but it is as stable as the old 2007 RT in my opinion.
By the way I did test ride a 2017 before buying the 2018 and I didn't notice anything strange with it's handling. I don't remember which tires it had, but it had less then a 1000 miles on the clock.
The only thing I can think of is maybe someone forgot to tighten all the fasteners after the assembled the bike at the dealer. My 2007 was delivered with loose handle bar bolts.


Bernie
Jax, FL
2018 R1200RT, Alpinweiss, starting out fresh.
2007 R1200RT, Double Silver 188,700 Smiles, SOLD
2000 R1100RT, Opal 104,000 Smiles, SOLD
BMW-MOA, BMW-RA,
AMA, BMW-NEF,
#1002971 - 12/31/17 02:57 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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Paul De Offline
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Milwaukee Wisconsin, USA
My '15 RT came with PR4 GTs and I would not really call the handling twitchy, but very responsive, particularly compared to my '99RT. Aside from something being off with the tires or Telelever components, there is a relative experience and preference to the steering characteristics. It took me a while to adjust to the responsiveness on my wethead but I always wished my '99 was a bit more flickable and got that in spades on '15 RT.

For me any perceived stability issues I traced back to me and my accumulated bad habits, like a death grip when riding frisky, and in general riding too stiff in my waist shoulders and arms. Once I began to trust that the new RT would not do anything scary like a tank slapper on deceleration or head shake on acceleration, and just relaxed and used a light touch on the bars my bike rewarded me with unflappable stability. The one caution is if the ESA is set to soft damping, the bike is very under damped and handling characteristics as you would suspect suffer. Sedate put-put riding is the rule when the ESA is set to soft.


If the good old days were so damn good, why did we bother to invent modern times?

Most missed bike: Bultaco Sherpa T 326
#1002973 - 12/31/17 03:27 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: Bernie]  
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terryofperry Online
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Posts: 875
Originally Posted by Bernie
Originally Posted by Bernie
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt
Originally Posted by Bernie
Yes Terry, I can fully agree with you. I have never had a handling problem due to the 50 liter Top Case on my 2007 RT. It handled great at any speed and any load.
The 2018 RT with Metzler Z8 tires inflated to 36 psi front and 42 psi rear at a cold temperature of 60 degrees F (BMW’s idea of cold tire temperature), handle like they are glued to the road.
In 2,600 miles I have not detected any in-stability of any kind or any noises using these tires on my 2018 RT-LC. And if you have ever traveled with me, you know I am not exactly a slow rider (38 mpg).


Too bad we’re at opposite ends of the state. Was your bike delivered with Metzler Z8 tires? I wonder why bmw changed them from one year to the next.

I test drove a 2018 at another dealer a couple weeks ago and didn’t notice any wiggle at all.


My 2018 was delivered with the Metzler Z8’s which is a strange thing anyway, as Metzler’s newest tires are the RoadTec01 which are a replacement for the Z8. But I guess inventory at the factory has to be used up.
I am going for a ride tomorrow and decided to increase my front tire air pressure to 40 psi, to see what I have been missing.
Roger please understand that after wearing out several Pilot Road 4’s, including the heavyweight compounds I have never been a big fan of the Michelin tires.
I rather have the Pirelli Angel GT, with A compound. They don’t last as long as the Michelin’s, but they feel more planted.


Ok here is the results of increasing the front tire pressure from 36 psi in a 60 degree garage to 40 psi.
I rode 200 miles in 46 F degree weather (overcast and moist) of lots of different roads and different road surfaces, new, old, rough, gouged, sandy, dirty, concrete and curvy roads. I rode at lots of different speeds as I always do, including double of some speed limits.
NO noticeable difference, except when I pushed the bike out of the garage in the morning, it felt a little easier.
I will keep it at the higher pressure, as it may help with how fast the tires wear, but my 2018 RT is rock steady, even in blasts from 18 wheelers coming the other way or in drafts at interstate speeds+.
As of side winds, we don't get a lot of real bad weather here in Florida, but it is as stable as the old 2007 RT in my opinion.
By the way I did test ride a 2017 before buying the 2018 and I didn't notice anything strange with it's handling. I don't remember which tires it had, but it had less then a 1000 miles on the clock.
The only thing I can think of is maybe someone forgot to tighten all the fasteners after the assembled the bike at the dealer. My 2007 was delivered with loose handle bar bolts.


Interesting ambient temperature differences, since I do not have a garage my temperature checks have always been taken at whatever the outside ambient air temperature is. In my case, where I live would always result in an increase in temperature & pressure during the ride. In your ride the tire temperature went from 60°F to 46°F for a small amount of time. I think I recall you being able to monitor tire pressures, if so, did you happen to get a reading during the ride after the tires heated up? If not, perhaps in two weeks on the way to Davisboro, Just curious and thanks for the write up.

Thanks

Terry


Terry

Perry, GA
#1002976 - 12/31/17 03:47 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: terryofperry]  
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Bernie Offline
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Jax, FL

Terry, The reason I use 60 F Degree as an ambient temperature to set my cold tire pressure, is because the BMW computer or what ever it is that converts the tire pressure readings of TPS on the bike into the readout in the dash, adjusts those pressures to a cold tire temperature setting of 60 F Degrees. So if I adjust the pressure to 40 PSI at a ambient temp of 40 F, it will as a low pressure on the read out, while the sam cold tire at 80 F ambient at 40 PSI will read high. A little confusing and twisted.
Yes, I actually have by default my tire pressures displayed and with in a few miles the readings stayed between 39 and 41 psi for the front tire and 41-43 for the rear tire.
I have no clue how I will be able to check and adjust my cold tire pressure, once the winter is over, as then the temperature in my garage will be between 80 and 110 F. But I think I will just do what I always do and check and set them for the coldest morning temperature of the week and do it before the sun warms up the tire. We will find out how BMW will adjust to the warmer then average German temps, I just hope it doesn't void the warranty. LOL :-)

By the way Roger what is your tire pressure read out telling you as you ride the bike?


Bernie
Jax, FL
2018 R1200RT, Alpinweiss, starting out fresh.
2007 R1200RT, Double Silver 188,700 Smiles, SOLD
2000 R1100RT, Opal 104,000 Smiles, SOLD
BMW-MOA, BMW-RA,
AMA, BMW-NEF,
#1002977 - 12/31/17 03:58 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: Bernie]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,317
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
dirtrider  Offline
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Posts: 13,317
Ohio
Originally Posted by Bernie

Terry, The reason I use 60 F Degree as an ambient temperature to set my cold tire pressure, is because the BMW computer or what ever it is that converts the tire pressure readings of TPS on the bike into the readout in the dash, adjusts those pressures to a cold tire temperature setting of 60 F Degrees. So if I adjust the pressure to 40 PSI at a ambient temp of 40 F, it will as a low pressure on the read out, while the sam cold tire at 80 F ambient at 40 PSI will read high. A little confusing and twisted.
Yes, I actually have by default my tire pressures displayed and with in a few miles the readings stayed between 39 and 41 psi for the front tire and 41-43 for the rear tire.
I have no clue how I will be able to check and adjust my cold tire pressure, once the winter is over, as then the temperature in my garage will be between 80 and 110 F. But I think I will just do what I always do and check and set them for the coldest morning temperature of the week and do it before the sun warms up the tire. We will find out how BMW will adjust to the warmer then average German temps, I just hope it doesn't void the warranty. LOL :-)

By the way Roger what is your tire pressure read out telling you as you ride the bike?


Afternoon Bernie

Your tire pressures are referenced to 20°c (68°f) not 60°f.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#1002978 - 12/31/17 04:04 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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terryofperry Online
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Thanks for the explanation Bernie, silly me to think BMW would want the rider to know the actual tire pressure during a ride, sarcastically speaking of course, glad I do not have that system.

Be well, see ya in two weeks.

Terry


Terry

Perry, GA
#1002979 - 12/31/17 04:05 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: dirtrider]  
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Bernie Offline
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Bernie  Offline
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Jax, FL
Originally Posted by dirtrider
Originally Posted by Bernie

Terry, The reason I use 60 F Degree as an ambient temperature to set my cold tire pressure, is because the BMW computer or what ever it is that converts the tire pressure readings of TPS on the bike into the readout in the dash, adjusts those pressures to a cold tire temperature setting of 60 F Degrees. So if I adjust the pressure to 40 PSI at a ambient temp of 40 F, it will as a low pressure on the read out, while the sam cold tire at 80 F ambient at 40 PSI will read high. A little confusing and twisted.
Yes, I actually have by default my tire pressures displayed and with in a few miles the readings stayed between 39 and 41 psi for the front tire and 41-43 for the rear tire.
I have no clue how I will be able to check and adjust my cold tire pressure, once the winter is over, as then the temperature in my garage will be between 80 and 110 F. But I think I will just do what I always do and check and set them for the coldest morning temperature of the week and do it before the sun warms up the tire. We will find out how BMW will adjust to the warmer then average German temps, I just hope it doesn't void the warranty. LOL :-)

By the way Roger what is your tire pressure read out telling you as you ride the bike?


Afternoon Bernie

Your tire pressures are referenced to 20°c (68°f) not 60°f.

Thank you for the correction and info, I somehow remembered something around 60 or so.
Is there somewhere a table or chart that would tell me what the pressure would be at different temperatures?
Will the moisture percentage mess that up?


Bernie
Jax, FL
2018 R1200RT, Alpinweiss, starting out fresh.
2007 R1200RT, Double Silver 188,700 Smiles, SOLD
2000 R1100RT, Opal 104,000 Smiles, SOLD
BMW-MOA, BMW-RA,
AMA, BMW-NEF,
#1002980 - 12/31/17 04:12 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: terryofperry]  
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Bernie Offline
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Bernie  Offline
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Posts: 2,317
Jax, FL
Originally Posted by terryofperry
Thanks for the explanation Bernie, silly me to think BMW would want the rider to know the actual tire pressure during a ride, sarcastically speaking of course, glad I do not have that system.

Be well, see ya in two weeks.

Terry


I know Terry it initially sounds strange, but on my old 2007 I had the Garmin TPS installed with the Garmin Zumo 590 and in the hotter month or during more spirited rides I would see really high temperatures,even when set to the normal cold temperatures. I remember seeing pressures in excess of 50-55 psi on the rear wheel. But after a stop like lunch or so they would drop back down to a normal range.
BMW probable does this to keep folks from being alarmed about high readings.
The main thing is that it shows if there is a sudden or gradual loss of pressure due to a puncture, as that can become a safety issue. As we saw during the last FART ride.
See you on the 13th of January.
Happy New Year to all!


Bernie
Jax, FL
2018 R1200RT, Alpinweiss, starting out fresh.
2007 R1200RT, Double Silver 188,700 Smiles, SOLD
2000 R1100RT, Opal 104,000 Smiles, SOLD
BMW-MOA, BMW-RA,
AMA, BMW-NEF,
#1002981 - 12/31/17 04:21 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: Bernie]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,317
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
dirtrider  Offline
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Posts: 13,317
Ohio
Originally Posted by Bernie

Thank you for the correction and info, I somehow remembered something around 60 or so.
Is there somewhere a table or chart that would tell me what the pressure would be at different temperatures?
Will the moisture percentage mess that up?


Afternoon Bernie

Yes, there are a number of PSI per degree (F) or (C) charts but the easy way to remember it is "about" 1 psi change per 10°f of (tire) temp change (so 40 psi @ 68°f would be 41 psi @ 78°f)

Moisture content will effect it slightly but so little that you won't be able to measure it with a common gauge or TPS sensor.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#1002983 - 12/31/17 04:29 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: dirtrider]  
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Bernie Offline
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Bernie  Offline
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Posts: 2,317
Jax, FL
Thank you D. R.
This will come in handy done the road, as things warm up.
Happy New Year!


Bernie
Jax, FL
2018 R1200RT, Alpinweiss, starting out fresh.
2007 R1200RT, Double Silver 188,700 Smiles, SOLD
2000 R1100RT, Opal 104,000 Smiles, SOLD
BMW-MOA, BMW-RA,
AMA, BMW-NEF,
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