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#1004084 - 01/23/18 07:32 PM Clutch Plate Movement on Input Shaft  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 409
TedKerr Offline
Ride On!
TedKerr  Offline
Ride On!
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 409
Denver, CO, USA
Hello folks! This is my first post here in quite some time as I sold my last Oilhead, a 2004 R1150RT, back in 2007. Had a 2000 R1100RT before the 2004. I missed those bikes badly so recently picked up a (mostly!) pristine silver 2004 R1150RT.

I bought the bike with knowledge of the transmission input shaft/clutch hub spline problems hoping that I would get one of the “good ones” and figuring I'd just fix it if not. Well it appears that I did not! Took a peek through the starter opening at the amount of clutch plate movement (slop) on the transmission input shaft and there is quite a bit of movement – probably 3/8” or more at the outer diameter of the clutch plate. I’m thinking this is bad, bad news.

Going to try to post a video. Would much appreciate your thoughts on this amount of movement/slop. Bike is a 2004 R1150RT with 33k miles.

Clutch plate movement (slop) on transmission input shaft

Many thanks,

Ted – Denver


Ride On!

Ted Kerr - Denver, CO - USA
'04 R1150RT, '14 Super Tenere, '06 XR650R, '14 KLR 650
#1004087 - 01/23/18 09:13 PM Re: Clutch Plate Movement on Input Shaft [Re: TedKerr]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,520
dirtrider Offline
The Oracle
dirtrider  Offline
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Posts: 14,520
Ohio
Originally Posted by TedKerr
Hello folks! This is my first post here in quite some time as I sold my last Oilhead, a 2004 R1150RT, back in 2007. Had a 2000 R1100RT before the 2004. I missed those bikes badly so recently picked up a (mostly!) pristine silver 2004 R1150RT.

I bought the bike with knowledge of the transmission input shaft/clutch hub spline problems hoping that I would get one of the “good ones” and figuring I'd just fix it if not. Well it appears that I did not! Took a peek through the starter opening at the amount of clutch plate movement (slop) on the transmission input shaft and there is quite a bit of movement – probably 3/8” or more at the outer diameter of the clutch plate. I’m thinking this is bad, bad news.

Going to try to post a video. Would much appreciate your thoughts on this amount of movement/slop. Bike is a 2004 R1150RT with 33k miles.

Clutch plate movement (slop) on transmission input shaft

Many thanks,

Ted – Denver


Afternoon Ted

That is a LOT of movement. If you are SURE that all the movement is just clutch hub to input shaft & not including some input shaft rotation then it looks like a teardown is in your future.

Remember there can be some input shaft rotation even with the trans in gear due to gear mesh & shift dog slop so look down in the clutch hub area while you move the clutch disk to be sure that the shaft is not rotating a little.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#1004088 - 01/23/18 09:36 PM Re: Clutch Plate Movement on Input Shaft [Re: TedKerr]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 105
Lincoln_Faller Offline
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Lincoln_Faller  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 105
Taos, New Mexico; Ann Arbor, M...
If it turns out you need to replace the complete clutch assembly and the input shaft (along with the input shaft bearings in the transmission and all the requisite seals), I recommend ordering the parts from Motorwerks in England. I got all I needed for just a little more than half price, including shipping, of what a US dealer would have charged for the parts. At the rate of the pound to the dollar at the time that meant a savings of about $900; at the current exchange rate it would be about $840. It took about a week for the parts to arrive, and this included a delay at customs, which insisted on charging $5 duty on the bearings and the seals, and then FedEx charged me $7 more for processing the transaction.

A further advantage is that Motorwerks sells a clutch disk with a lengthened hub, so there's greater contact between it and the input shaft.

I should add that the work was done at an independent shop, which had no problem with me supplying the parts.


Lincoln
Taos, NM/Ann Arbor, MI

2002 R1150RT red
2001 R1150GS, black
1978 R100S smoke red
1967 R69S black (of course)
#1004090 - 01/23/18 09:53 PM Re: Clutch Plate Movement on Input Shaft [Re: dirtrider]  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 409
TedKerr Offline
Ride On!
TedKerr  Offline
Ride On!
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 409
Denver, CO, USA
Originally Posted by dirtrider

Afternoon Ted

That is a LOT of movement. If you are SURE that all the movement is just clutch hub to input shaft & not including some input shaft rotation then it looks like a teardown is in your future.

Remember there can be some input shaft rotation even with the trans in gear due to gear mesh & shift dog slop so look down in the clutch hub area while you move the clutch disk to be sure that the shaft is not rotating a little.



Hi Dirtrider, I should have mentioned that the movement you see in the video is only the clutch plate and not the input shaft. I could not get the input shaft to light up in my video but there was positively no movement of the input shaft. Agree that it's a lot of movement and imagine it's about to let go any time. Sad thing is, I got the bike 2 weeks ago and have less than 150 miles on it. Oh well, I was planning for this and I'd rather tear it down in the winter anyway. Thanks for your input.


Ride On!

Ted Kerr - Denver, CO - USA
'04 R1150RT, '14 Super Tenere, '06 XR650R, '14 KLR 650
#1004091 - 01/23/18 10:03 PM Re: Clutch Plate Movement on Input Shaft [Re: Lincoln_Faller]  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 409
TedKerr Offline
Ride On!
TedKerr  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 409
Denver, CO, USA
Originally Posted by Lincoln_Faller
If it turns out you need to replace the complete clutch assembly and the input shaft (along with the input shaft bearings in the transmission and all the requisite seals), I recommend ordering the parts from Motorwerks in England. I got all I needed for just a little more than half price, including shipping, of what a US dealer would have charged for the parts. At the rate of the pound to the dollar at the time that meant a savings of about $900; at the current exchange rate it would be about $840. It took about a week for the parts to arrive, and this included a delay at customs, which insisted on charging $5 duty on the bearings and the seals, and then FedEx charged me $7 more for processing the transaction.

A further advantage is that Motorwerks sells a clutch disk with a lengthened hub, so there's greater contact between it and the input shaft.

I should add that the work was done at an independent shop, which had no problem with me supplying the parts.

Thanks for the info Lincoln! A $900 savings is substantial. Do you mind if I ask what the cost was from Motowerks for the input shaft, bearings and requisite seals? Was thinking about looking for a used transmission but would prefer to rebuild mine if the cost could be reasonable.

Thanks,

Ted


Ride On!

Ted Kerr - Denver, CO - USA
'04 R1150RT, '14 Super Tenere, '06 XR650R, '14 KLR 650
#1004092 - 01/23/18 10:55 PM Re: Clutch Plate Movement on Input Shaft [Re: Lincoln_Faller]  
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 91
Cap Offline
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Cap  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 91
Fort Collins, CO
Originally Posted by Lincoln_Faller
... I recommend ordering the parts from Motorwerks in England...


Thanks for the tip. I think you mean this place: Motorworks

#1004095 - 01/24/18 12:04 AM Re: Clutch Plate Movement on Input Shaft [Re: TedKerr]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,931
Jim Moore Offline
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Jim Moore  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,931
Jax, FL
Originally Posted by TedKerr
Originally Posted by Lincoln_Faller
If it turns out you need to replace the complete clutch assembly and the input shaft (along with the input shaft bearings in the transmission and all the requisite seals), I recommend ordering the parts from Motorwerks in England. I got all I needed for just a little more than half price, including shipping, of what a US dealer would have charged for the parts. At the rate of the pound to the dollar at the time that meant a savings of about $900; at the current exchange rate it would be about $840. It took about a week for the parts to arrive, and this included a delay at customs, which insisted on charging $5 duty on the bearings and the seals, and then FedEx charged me $7 more for processing the transaction.

A further advantage is that Motorwerks sells a clutch disk with a lengthened hub, so there's greater contact between it and the input shaft.

I should add that the work was done at an independent shop, which had no problem with me supplying the parts.

Thanks for the info Lincoln! A $900 savings is substantial. Do you mind if I ask what the cost was from Motowerks for the input shaft, bearings and requisite seals? Was thinking about looking for a used transmission but would prefer to rebuild mine if the cost could be reasonable.

Thanks,

Ted


Stop. Sorry, but no. You have a bad transmission. If you put in a new input shaft you will still have a bad transmission. You will be back in this exact spot at the next mileage interval. It sucks, but it's the facts.

You have a few good options. The best IMO is to buy a known-good used transmission from eBay. A 50K tranny with no visible wear would be perfect. Make sure you get a good close-up look at the splines. This one looks pretty good, although I don't know if the GS and RT cross.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-R1150GS-R1150RT-R1150RS-R1150R-6-speed-transmission/332436245463?hash=item4d66be8bd7:g:PPsAAOSwhOxZ~HJh&vxp=mtr

A few guys have had some success with building offset dowel pins to align the transmission. It's WAY out of my league, but if you're a machinist you can probably do it.

Cele001 (here and on Advrider) used to sell a spacer that kinda lengthened the clutch hub. Folks had some success with that, especially a guy with an R1100S on the Pelican Parts website. Joseph-something. I don't know if Cele still sells them or not.

Best of luck to you. It's a crappy deal. It's really turned me off the brand.


Jim Moore Jax, FL '99 R1100S '02 R1150GS
#1004096 - 01/24/18 12:12 AM Re: Clutch Plate Movement on Input Shaft [Re: TedKerr]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 105
Lincoln_Faller Offline
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Lincoln_Faller  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 105
Taos, New Mexico; Ann Arbor, M...
I did mean Motorworks. Too much German on the brain, methinks. You can find their parts catalog for 1150s at https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=2&NU=15&M=30

Here is a list of what I ordered from Motorworks, with their parts numbers and prices should these prove useful to others contemplating a splines repair. I checked these against the equivalent BMW part numbers and also took the advice of my tech, who made sure that I ordered all the necessary seals (I might have missed some) and got replacement bearings for the input shaft (which I wouldn't have thought of). You can search for parts on their site using either their numbers or BMW part numbers.

Part Qty Total
ENA41135 Seal 1 £18.00
ENA41087 Seal 1 £18.00
CLA33260 Clutch kit 1 £128.33
CLA33264 Friction Plate 1 £70.83
CLA66246 Flywheel 1 £229.45
ENA41472 Bolt 5 £11.46
GEA40324 Seal 1 £9.92
GEA32884 Switch seal 1 £7.00
GEA51172 Shaft 1 £145.83
GEA30176 Ball bearing 1 £11.00
GEA30175 Ball bearing 1 £9.75
GEA67733 Seal 1 £9.92
GEA40322 Seal 1 £8.29
GEA56019 Seal 1 £8.58
Postage & Packaging £38.00
Total £724.36 = $1014.14, at current exchange rate of $1.40 per pound, vs. $1851.68 at Max BMW, where shipping currently is free.

A couple of months back, when the exchange rate was better, my cost was $954.12, plus the $12.17 to US Customs and FedEx.

This list includes everything needed for the job, with two possible exceptions: the complete clutch pack from the flywheel back including a friction plate with the extended hub, a rear main seal for the engine, the input shaft and its two bearings, and all the transmission seals. It doesn't include a gasket for the slave cylinder, which may or may not need to be replaced, or the reinforcement ring that fits to the flywheel, as my tech said he finds no problem in reusing that part. But I did add that gasket to my order after placing it and paying for it, and also the reinforcement ring, just to be on the safe side. Motorworks gave them to me,12.80 pounds worth, for no additional charge, because of the size of my order, which was a nice touch. But they no longer stock the reinforcement ring.

A lot of credit cards charge a 3% commission on foreign exchange, so if possible use one that doesn't.


Lincoln
Taos, NM/Ann Arbor, MI

2002 R1150RT red
2001 R1150GS, black
1978 R100S smoke red
1967 R69S black (of course)
#1004097 - 01/24/18 12:36 AM Re: Clutch Plate Movement on Input Shaft [Re: TedKerr]  
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 109
Shane J. Offline
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Shane J.  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 109
Olympia, WA
Looking at that website, it looks like for the same cost you could just buy a rebuilt transmission from them.


Shane J.
Tumwater WA

2006 R1150RTP, 2004 R1150RT (my wife's bike), 1995 Buell S2 Thunderbolt
prior bikes,1969 BSA 650, 1994 Sportster, 1996 FLHS, 1999 Buell S3, 2002 Buell S3, 2003 BMW R1150 RTP
#1004109 - 01/24/18 02:36 AM Re: Clutch Plate Movement on Input Shaft [Re: TedKerr]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,029
Stan Walker Offline
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Stan Walker  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,029
I miss Colorado
Sorry Ted

That is a lot of movement, 1/3 of that amount would be indicative of ongoing wear.

But this can't be really happening, everyone knows that only the '02 R1150 RT's suffer from this..........

So says the guy with an '02 with over 140,000 miles on the original tranny input shaft.

Stan Walker


Stan Walker
Simi Valley, CA
'02 R1150RT, '15 F800GT, '15 F700GS, '99 F650 (for sale)
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