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Clutch Plate Movement on Input Shaft


TedKerr

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The input shaft will be well lubed with Honda Moly 60 on reassembly. I know some say the state of lubrication makes little or no difference but I can't imagine that it does not help. And maybe the eroded areas on the input shaft can act as lubricant pockets (now that's really hopeful thinking :) ).

 

Putting it back together with a new clutch plate would allow me to get the bike back to a (at least short-term) reliable state and allow me to search for a used transmission at my leisure. Good ones are out there but I'd prefer to not have to rush to find one. Extended hub clutch plates are now available for $100 so there's very little sunk cost even if I find a good transmission next month.

 

I'm a little interested to see how well an extended clutch hub installed on a partly worn input shaft, well lubed with Moly 60 would stand up. I'm happy to be a guinea pig and could probably go in every other year for a look and would document with detailed narrative and pictures.

Ted - Denver

 

Morning Ted

 

A couple of thoughts on that Moly 60 grease.

 

It definitely won't hurt but don't count on it lasting very long. Remember that your clutch disk to spline shaft is wearing the hardened metal away so sticky grease won't stay on the actual wiping contact surfaces very long. Some will probably stay in the non contact voids & pockets but not on the metal to metal contact points that really matter.

 

On a perfectly aligned spline joint sticky grease might help for a much longer time as the spline joint is running in compression with little to no wiping action. On a misaligned spline joint, those operate more like a gear set than a compression joint, so you get a lot of wiping action & THAT is why you see that angular wear on those hardened splines).

 

Nothing wrong with your game plan as you seem to understand the limitations of just adding a longer clutch hub but don't count on any type of miracle lube to gain you longer time between failure intervals.

 

 

 

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https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=30&Ct=CA&SbCt=BA_15_30_CA_50

 

I see motorworks lists the clutch but you may want to call to see if in stock as BBY shows sold out.

 

Motorworks is a good supplier and quick ship. You'll need other clutch pieces as well.

 

I'm not a fan of Honda Moly 60 and don't use it anymore but unfortunately the Guard Dog Moly is NLA I believe.

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+1 on DRs comments. I agree that Moly 60 seems like close to ordinary grease but some other candidates that may be others could comment on include:

 

MolyKote G (known to wreck clothing)

NevaSeize (which I happened to use on a couple of occasions).

White Lead (which I understand the EPA has banned except for the military).

 

I like AndyS's idea.

Edited by nrp
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Just a wild suggestion seeing as you are going to button it back up. Is it worth drilling a hole in the housing. If it were drilled in line with the clutch disc (much like the TDC hole on the right hand side), you could just pop a screwdriver though the hole and almost weekly scheck for movement. Then if you want, pop a grommet in the hole.

As I say, it is a guess as I am not sure where (in terms of fore and aft positioning) the hole would have to fall. It would save time taking the Starter motor off.

I like the idea for a quick view of the clutch plate but there may not be enough light to see much with a hole that size. With the starter off I can shine a light up in there and get a good view of the whole area including the area under the clutch hub where there may be some metal debris. I'm pretty sure I can have the footplate and starter off in under 10 minutes

 

Edited by TedKerr
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https://www.motorworks.co.uk/vlive/Shop/Parts.php?T=5&NU=15&M=30&Ct=CA&SbCt=BA_15_30_CA_50

 

I see motorworks lists the clutch but you may want to call to see if in stock as BBY shows sold out.

 

Motorworks is a good supplier and quick ship. You'll need other clutch pieces as well.

 

I'm not a fan of Honda Moly 60 and don't use it anymore but unfortunately the Guard Dog Moly is NLA I believe.

Yeah, BeemerBoneYard is out at the moment. Spoke with them yesterday they and are supposed to have them in stock by the end of the week. Ted's Beemer Shop has them as well and for less cost. They appear to be the same item as they both have the same code (CLA33262) stamped on them in the pictures.

 

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+1 on DRs comments. I agree that Moly 60 seems like close to ordinary grease but some other candidates that may be others could comment on include:

 

MolyKote G (known to wreck clothing)

NevaSeize (which I happened to use on a couple of occasions).

White Lead (which I understand the EPA has banned except for the military).

 

I like AndyS's idea.

Thanks DR and nrp for the info on grease to use. When I did the spline lube on my R1100RT (believe it was in 2003) Honda Moly 60 was most recommended.

 

Definitely open to other options if there is something that may be better.

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+1 on DRs comments. I agree that Moly 60 seems like close to ordinary grease but some other candidates that may be others could comment on include:

 

MolyKote G (known to wreck clothing)

NevaSeize (which I happened to use on a couple of occasions).

White Lead (which I understand the EPA has banned except for the military).

 

What about the BMW recommended Staburags Lube?

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When I did my transmission I had none of those so I mixed white lithium grease with military surplus graphite grease to a very sticky consistency.

I think any grease that can take temperatures without running out, has a high shear value and will stay where you put it should work fine.

I use this combo all the time on my tractor 3pt splines and have seen it has good performance over time.

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Ted,

 

This is a followup to my direct email to you. I had a 2002 RT with an input shaft and clutch plate splines that looked exactly like yours. I did not have the tools nor the skill to measure transmission to engine alignment or movement in the rear main bearing. So I just put the bike back together with a new stock clutch disk. In fact, I took the advice on Anton L. and replaced the entire clutch assembly south of the engine in case there was a run-out problem. I rode it about 10,000 miles before the next winter when I pulled the tranny and checked the splines again. There was absolutely no change in their condition. The clutch disk splines looked pristine and the input shaft splines still were worn, but no worse. I re-lubed it and continued to ride the bike and check the splines every 10,000 miles or so. Last year I sold the bike and informed the buyer about the splines. He continues to email me pictures of the bike on cross country trips. The bike has about 45,000 to 50,000 miles on it since the repair, Yes, this is just a single anecdotal case, but it worked for me and I was willing to take the risk and do the yearly work to check the splines. It was always a good winter project when snowed in. You take your chances. The final drive on my 1200RT completely failed on a trip at 27,000 miles. I'll fix it and ride it and not worry about it.

 

Good luck,

Al

Edited by awagnon
  • Like 1
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Ted,

 

This is a followup to my direct email to you. I had a 2002 RT with an input shaft and clutch plate splines that looked exactly like yours. I did not have the tools nor the skill to measure transmission to engine alignment or movement in the rear main bearing. So I just put the bike back together with a new stock clutch disk. In fact, I took the advice on Anton L. and replaced the entire clutch assembly south of the engine in case there was a run-out problem. I rode it about 10,000 miles before the next winter when I pulled the tranny and checked the splines again. There was absolutely no change in their condition. The clutch disk splines looked pristine and the input shaft splines still were worn, but no worse. I re-lubed it and continued to ride the bike and check the splines every 10,000 miles or so. Last year I sold the bike and informed the buyer about the splines. He continues to email me pictures of the bike on cross country trips. The bike has about 45,000 to 50,000 miles on it since the repair, Yes, this is just a single anecdotal case, but it worked for me and I was willing to take the risk and do the yearly work to check the splines. It was always a good winter project when snowed in. You take your chances. The final drive on my 1200RT completely failed on a trip at 27,000 miles. I'll fix it and ride it and not worry about it.

 

Good luck,

Al

Hi Al, it's great to hear your results. Hopefully I'll be as lucky. I plan to keep tabs on it by both looking through the starter window and by full separation of the transmission from time to time. Depending on how many miles I accumulate over the next year maybe I'll pull the transmission next winter for a good look. My guess is the curiosity will be killing me and I'll be going in! Agreed, it's not a bad winter project at all.

 

Do you have thoughts on whether or not the replacement of your clutch pack may have been a factor in the good results you saw?

 

A shout-out to Al, and maybe I'm the only one who didn't know this, Al has a very comprehensive checklist that details the steps to perform a spline lube on an R1150RT. I saw mention of it on another discussion board, contacted him about it and he was gracious enough to send me copy. Thanks again Al.

 

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"Do you have thoughts on whether or not the replacement of your clutch pack may have been a factor in the good results you saw?"

 

Ted,

 

Actually, I do think replacing the entire clutch assembly may have helped. As I mentioned, Anton Largiader, who I consider a great BMW mechanic on this and other forums, has written that in his opinion many of the premature spline failures are due to run-out problems where the clutch assembly doesn't sit at exactly 90 degrees to the crankshaft of the engine and hence, not to the input shaft of the transmission. In his experience, if you aren't able to check for alignment problems, then replacing the entire clutch assembly is the next best thing. He said he's not had any bikes come back with repeat spline failures when he's done this. So that's what I did and it seemed to work. It is more expensive, but cheaper than a new or used transmission which might not even fix the problem.

 

Al

 

 

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"Do you have thoughts on whether or not the replacement of your clutch pack may have been a factor in the good results you saw?"

 

Ted,

 

Actually, I do think replacing the entire clutch assembly may have helped. As I mentioned, Anton Largiader, who I consider a great BMW mechanic on this and other forums, has written that in his opinion many of the premature spline failures are due to run-out problems where the clutch assembly doesn't sit at exactly 90 degrees to the crankshaft of the engine and hence, not to the input shaft of the transmission. In his experience, if you aren't able to check for alignment problems, then replacing the entire clutch assembly is the next best thing. He said he's not had any bikes come back with repeat spline failures when he's done this. So that's what I did and it seemed to work. It is more expensive, but cheaper than a new or used transmission which might not even fix the problem.

 

Al

 

Hi Al, does Anton recommend replacing the flywheel too? Max has that part at $461. Yikes.

 

 

dbvis-7393108898575369137.gif

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I can't see any reason to replace a flywheel unless the teeth are chipped or the friction face is worn or glazed in such a way as to allow judder.

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"Hi Al, does Anton recommend replacing the flywheel too? Max has that part at $461. Yikes."

 

Ted. Yes, I believe Anton does recommend replacing the flywheel, which makes sense since it is the part bolted directly to the main crankshaft of the engine and most likely to be the source of the run-out problem, if there is one. I did replace mine. In fact, I replaced everything except the flat spring which would not have any effect on run-out. I see Andy disagrees, and I respect his opinion a lot. Like I said, this is not my recommendation, but rather Anton's. I can't recall if he made the recommendations on one of the forums, or a tech session he gave at the rally in Tenn. a few years ago. If this is wrong, perhaps Anton will jump in and correct me.

 

Al

 

 

 

Edited by awagnon
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Changing the flywheel isn't going to change the axis of rotation of the flywheel. That's determined by the engine's main bearing system.

 

 

Morning NRP

 

Correct in that it won't change the axis of rotation but the axis shouldn't be an issue anyhow as the clutch disk should self center within the spinning pressure plate & housing cover even if the flywheel isn't spinning centered on the crankshaft. (well within reason anyhow)

 

I think the reason (or at least my assumption) for replacing the flywheel is due to the possible height variance in the housing cover mounting (bolting) pads (a height difference in the mounting pads can cause a wobble to the pressure plate & housing cover).

 

I still can't see just randomly replacing that expensive flywheel as it is very easy to set up a dial indicator to sweep the flywheel 6 mounting pads in the fore/aft direction to verify any height variation as well as set up in the lateral direction to verify any lateral runout in the mounting hole locations.

 

Personally I would rather precision measure & verify my existing flywheel than to just bolt on an unknown new or used flywheel.

 

 

 

09HnGk3.jpg

 

Edited by dirtrider
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I still can't see just randomly replacing that expensive flywheel as it is very easy to set up a dial indicator to sweep the flywheel 6 mounting pads in the fore/aft direction to verify any height variation as well as set up in the lateral direction to verify any lateral runout in the mounting hole locations.

 

Personally I would rather precision measure & verify my existing flywheel than to just bolt on an unknown new or used flywheel.

 

D.R., I agree completely, but at the time, I didn't have a dial indicator nor the skill to use it. For me, it was easier to "just bolt on an unknown new flywheel", which seemed to have worked since the splines haven't failed again after twice the mileage of the first failure. Dumb luck I guess.

 

I also wondered at the time about when the flywheel was mounted to the end of the crankshaft if something, like a piece of machined metal, got under one side of the five hole mounting point, the flywheel would not sit flat and would cause a runout problem. However, I did not find anything under the flywheel when I changed it.

 

Al

 

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Dumb luck I guess.

I also wondered at the time about when the flywheel was mounted to the end of the crankshaft if something, like a piece of machined metal, got under one side of the five hole mounting point, the flywheel would not sit flat and would cause a runout problem. However, I did not find anything under the flywheel when I changed it.

Not dumb luck. As long as the flywheel is visually running reasonably true (and that means you don't need a dial indicator) there is no point in replacing the flywheel (starter teeth excepted). Yes the clutch disk re-centers on the transmission axis whenever it is released but it is when the engine rotates a half turn with it fully engaged that any radial engine-transmission axes alignment errors end up bending the transmission input shaft system. And these nutating radial forces on the spline are what wears the spline.

 

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Yes the clutch disk re-centers on the transmission axis whenever it is released but it is when the engine rotates a half turn with it fully engaged that any radial engine-transmission axes alignment errors end up bending the transmission input shaft system. And these nutating radial forces on the spline are what wears the spline.

 

Afternoon NRP

 

Actually the clutch disk should auto center on the spinning crankshaft not on the almost stationary at launch trans input shaft. But if the input shaft to crankshaft alignment is off far enough then the side load on the clutch disk could skew the crankshaft auto centering slightly.

 

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I spoke with Anton yesterday and, as mentioned by Al (awagnon), Anton says if you're going down the path of replacing clutch components the flywheel should be, and in fact is the most important component to replace. Rather than replace the very expensive flywheel as a hopeful fix, I'm going with DR's suggestion of measuring fore/aft runout on the six flywheel pads of my current flywheel. I have a dial indicator and am pretty sure I know how to use it. :)

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I'm going with DR's suggestion of measuring fore/aft runout on the six flywheel pads of my current flywheel. I have a dial indicator and am pretty sure I know how to use it.

 

Thanks for the followup with Anton. Sounds like you have a plan.

 

Al

 

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I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but the topic seems to be input shafts. When I did my clutch at 52K on my R1100gs, I noticed some slight tapered wear on the input shaft but no wear no driven side of the splines. Overall, I was relieved and happy with what I saw. I could just barely feel a taper with my fingers and it should go another 50K easy.

Later, I replaced a faulty transmission on another R1100gs and the replacement unit as well as the faulty unit still had the machining grooves on the top of the splines all the way to the end of the shaft. Neither were original so I don't know the miles on each unit. This got me to wondering about my input shaft. I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed this tapered wear? Also, after researching until I was dizzy, I settled on GD Molly for assembly lube.

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I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but the topic seems to be input shafts. When I did my clutch at 52K on my R1100gs, I noticed some slight tapered wear on the input shaft but no wear no driven side of the splines. Overall, I was relieved and happy with what I saw. I could just barely feel a taper with my fingers and it should go another 50K easy.

Later, I replaced a faulty transmission on another R1100gs and the replacement unit as well as the faulty unit still had the machining grooves on the top of the splines all the way to the end of the shaft. Neither were original so I don't know the miles on each unit. This got me to wondering about my input shaft. I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed this tapered wear? Also, after researching until I was dizzy, I settled on GD Molly for assembly lube.

 

Afternoon SmokinRZ

 

You are kind of hijacking this thread as it is about the BMW 1150 6 speed splines. Very few failures on the 1100 5 speed bikes.

 

If you want to start a new thread about YOUR BMW 1100 5 speed splines then we can go into more detail on your problems & finding in that thread.

 

If we start mixing 1150 6 speed spline problems with the 1100 5 speed problems in the same thread then it becomes a thread with errors & interchangeability issues so best to keep the 5 speed & 6 speed spline issues in their own respective threads.

 

 

 

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Hello folks, I was able to check for fore/aft variance on the six flywheel pads last night (see markers on DR's flywheel photo above). I measured next to each bolt hole using a dial indicator. Took five sets of measurements and they were very consistent so I'm confident in the method used. Will also post a pic of my setup.

 

I made position 1 the pad closest to the OT marking, position 2 is next going clockwise, etc. So essentially, values 2-6 are a measurement of variance to position 1.

 

Here are the measurements:

 

1: 0.000

2: -0.003

3: 0.003

4: -0.002

5: -0.001

6: -0.003

 

This doesn't seem like a lot to me but I'm interested to hear thoughts.

 

Thanks,

 

Ted

 

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Hello folks, I was able to check for fore/aft variance on the six flywheel pads last night (see markers on DR's flywheel photo above). I measured next to each bolt hole using a dial indicator. Took five sets of measurements and they were very consistent so I'm confident in the method used. Will also post a pic of my setup.

 

I made position 1 the pad closest to the OT marking, position 2 is next going clockwise, etc. So essentially, values 2-6 are a measurement of variance to position 1.

 

Here are the measurements:

 

1: 0.000

2: -0.003

3: 0.003

4: -0.002

5: -0.001

6: -0.003

 

This doesn't seem like a lot to me but I'm interested to hear thoughts.

 

Thanks,

 

Ted

 

Afternoon Ted

 

Three thousands isn't a lot but more than I would like to have if I could rectify it. I doubt .003" is the cause of all (or even most of) your spline wear.

 

With only .003" involved & your repeatability of measurement, if it were my bike I would use a nice wide sharp fine file & draw file the high pads to be 0.000" (or as close as possible). If you do this keep the file perfectly flat & in contact with 2 pads as you s-l-o-w-l-y & carefully remove the required material (don't try to hurry).

 

At least that way you know that what you have is the best available as even a new flywheel could be .003" or more variance.

 

I still think that your trans to engine alignment is the root cause of your spline wear so either check that & align with offset dowels or install a good used trans with pristine splines.

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks DR, I was considering the file but wasn't sure if it was advisable. With your suggestion I'll go ahead and do that.

 

Then, unless I find a good used transmission very soon, will start putting it back together with the new extended hub clutch plate that the man in the brown jumpsuit delivered.

 

Will be doing some travel over the next two weeks so it may take me a while.

 

Ted - Denver

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That's really incredibly close tolerance for a stamped/formed part!

1: 0.000

2: -0.003

3: 0.003

4: -0.002

5: -0.001

6: -0.003

 

Assuming it isn't machined on the surfaces (and it doesn't look like it to me) I don't think it is worth filing or anything else etc. The surface that's critical is the transmission input bearing housing bore, when read by a dial indicator mounted to the flywheel.. There is a series of pictures in my oilhead postings of about 2006 that shows my rig. I can't find it right now but will add later if I can. Had cataract surgery yesterday.............. :S

Edited by nrp
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That's really incredibly close tolerance for a stamped/formed part!

1: 0.000

2: -0.003

3: 0.003

4: -0.002

5: -0.001

6: -0.003

 

Assuming it isn't machined on the surfaces (and it doesn't look like it to me) I don't think it is worth filing or anything else etc. The surface that's critical is the transmission input bearing housing bore, when read by a dial indicator mounted to the flywheel.. There is a series of pictures in my oilhead postings of about 2006 that shows my rig. I can't find it right now but will add later if I can. Had cataract surgery yesterday.............. :S

 

Evening NRP

 

I'm not 100% positive but those surfaces look to be spot machined (at least on the flywheels that I have handled).

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hello, well I finally got a few miles on the bike and a chance to pull the starter for a view of the clutch plate movement on the input shaft with the new clutch. I wanted to put a few miles on it as I noticed the spline lubricant I applied (Honda Moly 60) was somewhat restricting movement and figured a few miles would squeeze out any excess lube and show a more accurate reading. I rode it about 200 miles after getting it back together.

 

As a quick recap - the bike is a 33k 2004 R1150RT that showed a *lot* of movement of the clutch plate on the input shaft when inspected through the starter window. The video showing this is on post 1 of this thread. Disassembly revealed the clutch hub was completely shot and the transmission input shaft was somewhat or very worn (some variance in opinion there). Detailed pics of both are on page 2 of this thread.

 

For a variety of reasons I decided to put the bike back together with the same transmission and a new "extended hub" clutch plate with some good spline lube and then start searching for a good used transmission.

 

I plan to ride the bike and check clutch plate movement from time to time and will post videos to this thread for those interested in how this configuration is going to hold up.

 

Below is the "baseline" video:

 

Edited by TedKerr
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  • 2 weeks later...

Such a pity that the mis-aligned bell-housing to gearbox assembly errors made at the Berlin Spandau factory in the early naughties, have made the lives of so many riders of these lovely unburstable machines so miserable.

 

As mentioned on another Beemer bike forum, my pal here in Spain, Motorcycling Mo, with his adored 2004 GS Adventure in unmarked, pristine condition, was tempted the other day to chip it in against a new R1200R water cooled model with the Chinese wet clutch and the shaft on the left.

 

When he took it to the salesman in the showroom and asked for a trade-in price, the guy was horrified.

 

"You must be mad", he gasped. "These machines", indicating with a sweep of his arm the showroom full of new Beemers, "aren't a PATCH on your bike."

 

But then, Mo is lucky to own a correctly-aligned tranny unit on his prized vehicle.

As indeed am I with my same-year Rockster.

Edited by Alan Sykes
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There is an extensive series of postings on some of my first revelations on this topic at:

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=704272&page=1

 

Unfortunately the pictures that showed how I made the engine-transmission alignment fixture were not saved by the forum-master. I still have them in my computer but I'll have to figure out how to post them again. I can e-mail them to anyone who knows these things. I don't have my original hosting party available, but I do still have the complete fixture for anyone interested.

 

PM me if you are interested. Whoopeezoo did it originally but I have not seen him for some time. The picture postings and discussion were still under my initials - nrp

 

 

Edited by nrp
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Hi nrp,

Regarding your missing fotos, I don't think it's the forum admin here who's responsible; it's those money-grabbing hosters at PhotoBucket who've hi-jacked all respondents' hosted images against a ransom charge of some two-hundred or more snoojits.

 

Everybody who used them has now gone to either SmugMug for about ninety snoojits a year, or the free PostImage hoster. Who may of course go the same way as Photobucket in the near future, when they realise that it's never Charity Week.

 

Try Post Image - it's very easy and simple, and all you do here when you've copied the URL on their page after uploading, is click on the "Image" tag in the Full Editor here, and in the little box that appears, paste your copied URL.

 

When you post, the line is blue ready for people to point at - then right click - and choose :

 

"Open Link in New Tab".

 

I for one would love to see the fotos you took all that time ago. And I bet that if you posted them in a new thread on here called Bell Housing Misalignment Cure - or some such title - there'd be general interest among members, rather then just sending them to individuals in a PM. Just an idea....

 

Rgds,

 

AL in s.e. Spain

 

P.S. Quite pleased with myself this Easter Monday morning - I successfully managed to trim off a coupla inches from the top of the enormous SecDem barn-door windscreen on the Honda auto. Using a jigsaw against all U-Toob advice. Plenty of painter's masking tape both sides ensured no splitting. The jigsaw has a slow speed control so thankfully that prevented any possible re-welding of the cut behind the blade caused by excessive heat.

 

75dtfpl79

Edited by Alan Sykes
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Funny thing with these clutches... Someone I know attempted to change the clutch and somehow, managed to destroy the friction plate.

Too many rumors about aligning these and here's what you can get:

 

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6158249260

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6158249252

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6158249140

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D2331532_223_6158249131

 

Aligning the gearbox and the engine is simple:

 

- eye-center it all and put in the screws, do not tighten them so that the friction plate can move inside the two metal plates

- fit in the gearbox, tighten the 6 M8 screws to torque

- rotate the clutch assembly using a hammer's wood handle and tighten the clutch screws, 18Nm for 1100, 13Nm for 1150. Got 2 or 3 times over them all when torquing, because when all of them are tighten, you will be able to re-tighten a little more till the end value is reached.

 

Dan.

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Hi Dan - ¿ now why didn't I think of that ?

 

I t h i n k I follow your steps - but just to clarify, when you say "between the 2 metal plates" - what you mean is the actual clutch-pack items number 5 and 7, yes ? :-

 

unyhxpaz9

 

c8e10brpx

 

Plus, when you say - fit in the gearbox, that's where I scratch my poor aching head - if you close up the bell-housing to gearbox interface you can't any more access the 6 circumferential clutch-pack bolts....duh.

 

And looking at the components list in the 2nd link above, what about almost 400 bucks for a new flywheel from 15 years ago ? ? ! ! They don't call them the Greedy Berlin Pig for nothing.

 

Clarification please....

Rgds, AL

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All the radial shifting of rotating components doesn't fix or shift the engine/transmission axes radial alignment. That's determined by the two clutch housing alignment spools/pins which have been located incorrectly at the factory. It is a very small error, but very consequential for spline life. Think about it some more.

 

I try to repost my fixture pictures etc

Edited by nrp
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Alan is right, there is no practical way to introduce the transmission and then tighten the bolts. I did mine a few years back and with just a bit of care tightening down the bolts, it was very easy. The spring is being compressed by the bolts(8) thru (7,6,and 5) so care must be taken to draw the plate(7) down evenly to the flywheel(1). Once the bolts are started, the clutch plate can be checked and re centered(7) if necessary before full pressure is applied by the spring. Once the bolts have compressed the spring and all touch the flywheel pads they can be torqued to spec. Mike

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Alan is right, there is no practical way to introduce the transmission and then tighten the bolts. I did mine a few years back and with just a bit of care tightening down the bolts, it was very easy. The spring is being compressed by the bolts(8) thru (7,6,and 5) so care must be taken to draw the plate(7) down evenly to the flywheel(1). Once the bolts are started, the clutch plate can be checked and re centered(7) if necessary before full pressure is applied by the spring. Once the bolts have compressed the spring and all touch the flywheel pads they can be torqued to spec. Mike

 

Once the gearbox has been fitted, everything is already centered, otherwise the gearbox does not fit in.

 

 

Hi Dan - ¿ now why didn't I think of that ?

 

I t h i n k I follow your steps - but just to clarify, when you say "between the 2 metal plates" - what you mean is the actual clutch-pack items number 5 and 7, yes ? :- [YES]

 

unyhxpaz9

 

c8e10brpx

 

Plus, when you say - fit in the gearbox, that's where I scratch my poor aching head - if you close up the bell-housing to gearbox interface you can't any more access the 6 circumferential clutch-pack bolts....duh. [you can tighten them trough the place where the starter motor stays in. ]

 

And looking at the components list in the 2nd link above, what about almost 400 bucks for a new flywheel from 15 years ago ? ? ! ! They don't call them the Greedy Berlin Pig for nothing. [Not sure if the flywheel needs replacing, except if it is worn, especially at the zone where the pistons are at TDC, those teeth seem to have more wear than the rest. ]

 

Clarification please....

Rgds, AL

 

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Trouble with teeth wear on flywheels is that whenever you stop the motor when you come to rest, the flywheel stops in either of only 2 places, 180 degrees apart ( 'cos it's a twin cyl motor - duh.. )

 

Next time you start, the same 3 teeth get hit by the starter gear - hence wear in two particular places.

 

It sometimes occurs to me to stall the motor at a standstill by letting out the clutch whilst in first, holding the brakes. Then the flywheel stops in a new position - and the starter next time hits unworn teeth. Maybe that's a touch anal though...and ¿ maybe jolts the tranny helical and splines too much ?

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