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#1007764 - 03/21/18 01:19 AM Re: New Tire Wipe-Out [Re: SKYGZR]  
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eddd Offline
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Hurricane, UT
[Linked Image]

I really took that scuffing in advice to heart.


16 Triumph Tiger 800 XRT
13 Yamaha XT250
08 Triumph Daytona


#1007769 - 03/21/18 02:05 AM Re: New Tire Wipe-Out [Re: Michaelr11]  
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Lowndes Offline
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Roswell, GA
Michael,

Could you have had low pressure in the tire?? Slow leak in the valve possibly, or forgot to put the correct pressure in it?? Sounds like a wipeout with a very low front tire I had back in high school. Everything was good until I took a corner. Wasn't going that fast but it wouldn't stay up, layed it right down. It felt just like the front tire was a swivel caster. Zero steerability. Skint my knee and tore up my favorite jeans, remember it vividly.

I had a brand new shiny rear tire slide right out from under me in a corner of the quadrangle back in college. I was saved by the curb but that was enough to put "the fear" in me. Ever since then I'll scrub the ENTIRE TREAD of every tire. Sometimes it's just slinging the entire wheel with tire mounted against concrete or asphalt, sometimes using sandpaper on the tread before doing anything else, even used a belt sander once, ANYTHING to get all residue AND the molded shiny rubber off the tread. That SHINY molded rubber surface is slick all by itself.

My brother who has A LOT more experience in MC's than I'll ever have scoffed and fussed at me continuously last weekend for scuffing a new Pirelli we were mounting on my K. I just ignored him. On that point, anyway. Then rode it 280 miles, half of it in the rain, in the mountains, NO problem.

Pre-scuff 'em.


Old Fart Newbie
#1007772 - 03/21/18 03:59 AM Re: New Tire Wipe-Out [Re: Michaelr11]  
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Rochester WA
Something that comes to mind for me - it's entirely possible that the tire picked up some oil or grease at the shop. On the bench, the mechanic's hands, a rag, the floor. Or even on the road somewhere after leaving the shop. Just a thought.


I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

Eric
#1007773 - 03/21/18 04:03 AM Re: New Tire Wipe-Out [Re: Michaelr11]  
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Danny caddyshack Noonan Offline
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Danny caddyshack Noonan  Offline
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Near the mine, Utah
Mold releases have been changing constantly over the last 10 years. Could be a new one that is more persistent on the rubber side of the mold.


Peter

God bless America!
Rule of rocketry #1: Pointy end up...stupid.
Danny, be the ball.
'12 R1200RT Midnight Blue.
99 R1100RT, KLR650 sold
TR6 (sold, wife can now park in the garage)
#1007786 - 03/21/18 01:24 PM Re: New Tire Wipe-Out [Re: Michaelr11]  
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D.R. said "Afternoon Michaelr11

Who mounted the tire & what type / how much mounting lube used?

I haven't had much of an issue with newly mounted tires (maybe a little squirmy for a few miles but nothing dangerous)-- But I mount my own tires & after installing ANY newly mounted tire on my motorcycle I scrub the tire tread surface with a Scotch Pad & Westlys Bleche-White as that removes any misplaced tire mounting lube as well as any remaining tire release agent used in manufacturing."

Like D.R., I've been mounting and balancing my own tires for years using 50/50 dish soap and water for a bead lubricant. When finished, I clean with water and a scotch-brite pad. So far, I've not had any issues.


Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future.

Ayn Rand

#1007788 - 03/21/18 01:27 PM Re: New Tire Wipe-Out [Re: Michaelr11]  
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I've had this happen. Two years ago I put a new set of Dunlop Q3's on my '14 ZX-6R. I was taking it easy, but I found the right combination of cool temps, morning dew and crosswalk paint that caused me to have a 10 mph low-side. Since then, I've taken to using my track tire warmers to 'season' a new set of tires before I ride them on the street. I honestly think it's not a single factor (mold release), but a combination of things that cause those sorts of accidents.

#1007792 - 03/21/18 02:13 PM Re: New Tire Wipe-Out [Re: Antimatter]  
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Michaelr11 Offline
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Trinity, NC
Originally Posted by Antimatter
I've had this happen. Two years ago I put a new set of Dunlop Q3's on my '14 ZX-6R. I was taking it easy, but I found the right combination of cool temps, morning dew and crosswalk paint that caused me to have a 10 mph low-side. Since then, I've taken to using my track tire warmers to 'season' a new set of tires before I ride them on the street. I honestly think it's not a single factor (mold release), but a combination of things that cause those sorts of accidents.


When I get new tires, I remove the wheel and bring it by car to the shop. I watch the tire get mounted, bring it home and balance it. Remount the wheel on the bike and check the tire pressure. Lowndes - no, the pressure was definitely set. I check it with a good quality gauge, and then put a TPMS sensor on the new valve stem and confirm it on the TPM display before riding. I didn't scrub the tire, but never have on the other 20-30 front tires I've bought. It was a cool day, the tires were probably 45-50 degrees F. There's a very small chance that at that corner I might have turned and gone over a small (8 inches?) shut off valve cover. Not talking about a 3 foot manhole cover. I don't think I touched it, but it is possible. But, that would mean that all of the squirm that I felt for the next 200 miles was mostly in my head.....


Michael Stock, Trinity NC
01 R1100RT, R60/6, R100
#1007794 - 03/21/18 02:27 PM Re: New Tire Wipe-Out [Re: Michaelr11]  
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Living the Dream Offline
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Originally Posted by Michaelr11
But, that would mean that all of the squirm that I felt for the next 200 miles was mostly in my head.....


Could be possible, generally after I feel a squirm, hear a noise, feel a vibration and fix the issue, I'm hypersensitive to the standard operation of the bike and its little nuances.


Richard
Laborare pugnare paratus sum
2014 HP4
2010 Shadow RS
2006 R1200rt
PRC-E7
#1007796 - 03/21/18 02:32 PM Re: New Tire Wipe-Out [Re: dirtrider]  
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Originally Posted by dirtrider
Originally Posted by Lone_RT_rider
One thing people are forgetting is that the slick stuff on the outside of the tire that we normally have to scrub off is tire mold release agent. Depending on the tire producing machine, that agent can be applied manually. It sounds like there is a possibility that they person working that machine might have gotten a bit over zealous with the application.


Afternoon Lone_RT_rider

Actually it was mentioned in a post above but most motorcycle tire manufactures don't use a release agent any longer..


Ok, but something has to be used to keep the rubber from sticking to the inside of the mold. It may be an additive to the rubber compound. It may also be a way they have changed the surface of the mold so it needs less prep. It could be a different process time (dwell time) in the mold that keeps the rubber at a temp that allows it to come out of the mold easier.

Anyone that has dealt with molding rubber would be skeptical of a statement saying they no longer use release agent. Something still has to be done to get that tire to release without ripping the outer are of the molded surface.

"We no longer use release agents in the mold" sounds more like a statement from attorneys, not the actual manufacturing engineers.

Last edited by Lone_RT_rider; 03/21/18 02:32 PM.

2018 Harley-Davidson FLHTP Electra-Glide
2008 BMW R1200RT
1999 BMW R1100RT

#1007799 - 03/21/18 02:46 PM Re: New Tire Wipe-Out [Re: Lone_RT_rider]  
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Living the Dream Offline
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Originally Posted by Lone_RT_rider
Originally Posted by dirtrider
Originally Posted by Lone_RT_rider
One thing people are forgetting is that the slick stuff on the outside of the tire that we normally have to scrub off is tire mold release agent. Depending on the tire producing machine, that agent can be applied manually. It sounds like there is a possibility that they person working that machine might have gotten a bit over zealous with the application.


Afternoon Lone_RT_rider

Actually it was mentioned in a post above but most motorcycle tire manufactures don't use a release agent any longer..


Ok, but something has to be used to keep the rubber from sticking to the inside of the mold. It may be an additive to the rubber compound. It may also be a way they have changed the surface of the mold so it needs less prep. It could be a different process time (dwell time) in the mold that keeps the rubber at a temp that allows it to come out of the mold easier.

Anyone that has dealt with molding rubber would be skeptical of a statement saying they no longer use release agent. Something still has to be done to get that tire to release without ripping the outer are of the molded surface.

"We no longer use release agents in the mold" sounds more like a statement from attorneys, not the actual manufacturing engineers.


Smoother molds,...we use it in our manufacturing and don't use any type of release. The smoother the mold, the easier it comes off.


Richard
Laborare pugnare paratus sum
2014 HP4
2010 Shadow RS
2006 R1200rt
PRC-E7
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