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aggravated with my dealer


walton66

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First of all I need to point out that I'm 5 hours from the dealer that sole me my 2013RT. I rode over there this weekend to have them look for the source of a vibration in the from end that begins about 90 and increases as you get to 100. Only on a closed course of course. Since I live so far away, I left it on Saturday and rented a car to drive home.

 

yesterday I got a call that they had found a nail in my rear tire, metzler roadtec, about 3000 miles, no indication from the tpms. I said patch or plug it they said no can do, against policy. Ok, O said, give me a new tire ... sorry we don't carry that brand and will have to order it, 3-5 days. Ok I said, put on a michelin ... sorry we won't mix manufacturers. Ok, put on a set of PR4GTs ... sorry, we don't stock those but have the new 5s. Exasperated and still hoping to drive back the 5 hours this Saturday and pick it up so it will be ready for START, I say install those. I'll patch the metzler my self and have a spare set of tires. Did you look at the front end ... not yet.

 

Today they called and said the front bearings were "notched" whatever that means. I said ok install them ... we will order them and hopefully they will be hear tomorrow for installation or Saturday. WTF, they don't stock something as simple as wheel bearings. I was really PO'd. I do not want to make that trip twice. How can a big shop not have something so simple, it's not like a pair of camshafts .

 

hoping all turns out well.

 

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First of all I need to point out that I'm 5 hours from the dealer that sole me my 2013RT. I rode over there this weekend to have them look for the source of a vibration in the from end that begins about 90 and increases as you get to 100. Only on a closed course of course. Since I live so far away, I left it on Saturday and rented a car to drive home.

 

yesterday I got a call that they had found a nail in my rear tire, metzler roadtec, about 3000 miles, no indication from the tpms. I said patch or plug it they said no can do, against policy. Ok, O said, give me a new tire ... sorry we don't carry that brand and will have to order it, 3-5 days. Ok I said, put on a michelin ... sorry we won't mix manufacturers. Ok, put on a set of PR4GTs ... sorry, we don't stock those but have the new 5s. Exasperated and still hoping to drive back the 5 hours this Saturday and pick it up so it will be ready for START, I say install those. I'll patch the metzler my self and have a spare set of tires. Did you look at the front end ... not yet.

 

Today they called and said the front bearings were "notched" whatever that means. I said ok install them ... we will order them and hopefully they will be hear tomorrow for installation or Saturday. WTF, they don't stock something as simple as wheel bearings. I was really PO'd. I do not want to make that trip twice. How can a big shop not have something so simple, it's not like a pair of camshafts .

 

hoping all turns out well.

 

Evening bwpsg42

 

I think I would drive 10 hours not to have to use that dealer again.

 

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szurszewski

Would have been nice if they'd addressed your original concern before they sold you a set of tires. Hope you get it back in time!

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Well Bernie, I never thought about it not being an approved tire. Now I'm really upset, and DR, it's been 2 years since I was there, I guess it'll be longer next time. When I get there Saturday I'll have to ask about the tires. . It's the exact reason I've taught myself about service over the past decades. I just wasn't sure where to start with this vibration which starts at the same speed regardless of the gear and is barely noticeable anywhere except through The handlebars.

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Well, from what I read, Michelin claims the GT version of the PR-5, which is their recommended tire for the R1200RT, will not be for sale until next year or later this year.

Make sure they give you in writing that these tires are meeting the specs for the bike. There is a lot of hype involved with tires these days.

Are you sure they are talking about wheel bearings causing the vibration or is steering head bearings.

Just be careful and test ride the bike good, before you leave.

I hope to see you at START.

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I looked at the Michelin website a short time ago and saw the same. Calling in the AM to tell them not to install those or take them off. I'll take it home with a flat metzler I'm so hot. They said wheel bearing. When I was searching around, I thought they sounded weird. We'll see. I wanted to take it to Palm Bay but rode over to see the BMW truck and ride several new bikes. Should have known better.

 

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I don't know, Michelin and BMW have a reason to say that the GT version is the tire for the RT.

In Germany, only the GT versions are TUV approved for the bike. I think Michelin said that they made the GT version on request of BMW, as they didn't like the way the standard version handled on the RT.

Don't get me wrong, I have friends that use both version of tires, arguing that they never ride the bike loaded. But I think it's more than weight rating.

Past experience on my 2007 RT, the GT versions last a little longer then the standard version.

Also keep in mind the standard version is also the same tire for a small bike like a Suzuki SV650, which is much lighter empty then a RT.

But everyone has to live with their own decisions.

For example, I picked up my 2018 RT from the 6000 mile service from the factory dealer on Tuesday. I ask the tech (BMW trained) if everything was alright, he said your front tire only had 38 psi, and it should be 42 psi.

I said, are you sure, as the manual, supplied with the bike says in at least 2, but possible 3 places that the front tire should have 36 psi and the rear should have 42 psi. He told me the manual was wrong.

I told him not to worry and I will correct it. ;-)

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I'm surprised no one mentioned anything about notched front bearings on a five year old MC. I mean, really, what's wrong with this picture? Five years old and notched front bearings??!! I dunno....maybe I'm unrealistic but this doesn't seem right....

 

On the other hand I once bought a new Volvo sedan and it suffered a bad wheel bearing at the 1300 mile mark......

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I'm surprised no one mentioned anything about notched front bearings on a five year old MC. I mean, really, what's wrong with this picture? Five years old and notched front bearings??!! I dunno....maybe I'm unrealistic but this doesn't seem right....

 

On the other hand I once bought a new Volvo sedan and it suffered a bad wheel bearing at the 1300 mile mark......

 

I think you are correct, Randy. don't get me wrong its possible the bearings are bad, but the axle only pinches the bearings at its edges.

It sound more like a out of round tire or wheel, or make something loose on the front end.

I changed the bearings on my 2007 R1200RT at 175,000 miles or so, I don't think they where really bad.

The whole thing is fishy, any FL dealer should be able to get any common tire in 2 days or less. Hell, we don't even have snow slowing down FedEx, maybe rain. LOL

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My concern on the vibration is that it only is noticeable at 90+. I don't often go this fast but there are a few places where it's fun to twist it to the extreme. It's the same in 4, 5, or 6. It must be there at lower speeds but I can't feel it. I've never hit anything to damage the wheel. There is no additional blur in the fairing mirrors but the bar mounted mirrors I added go crazy. I guess I'll find out when I get to ride it again.

Edited by bwpsg42
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May I suggest that you remove your additional bar mounted mirrors, and try a high speed run. Air turbulence from the mirrors might be your problem, just a thought.

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Thanks Don. I thought about that and remove them did before taking it in. I wasn't anywhere I could blast too much on the ride up there but the vibes did seem lower wher I could accelerate briefly. I'll get to really check it out in 2 weeks.

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Morning bwpsg42

 

I will be very surprised if new front wheel bearings have any effect on reducing your front end vibration at 90-100 mph.

 

That speed is WAY above front wheel notchy bearing influence, (way above).

 

At 90-100 mph you are more into wheel balance or tire uniformity areas for a vibration or shake, or into an engine/drivetrain disturbance area if it is more of a high frequency mirror or grip buzz than a lower frequency vibration shake.

 

The 1200 camhead is a basic large piston boxer engine so has a couple of somewhat strong buzz periods. BMW added a (single) balance shaft to help with the larger buzz periods but a single balance shaft won't remove all the buzz periods so there is still some high RPM engine related buzzing above most legal speeds.

 

Added: if you are fighting a high speed (ie high engine RPM) buzzing is the handlebars, or in the bar mounted mirrors, then you might need to look into playing with heavier bar end weights (those OEM bar end weights are there for a reason). Or even trying to add isolation, or frequency response tuning to the bars themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dirtrider
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+1 on notched wheel bearing being the cause of high speed vibration. My pea brain logic says this would be noticed at low speed and become a faint buz at the bars at higher speeds. A lost wheel weight causing the wheel to become out of balance or tire going out of round (cupping) it a way more logical suspect.

 

Not sure I would trust anything coming out of their mouth at this point. I'm not sure I would even let them replace the wheel bearing either. Pay for the hour or two to check the issue out and nothing for unapproved tire mounting & removal. And let them know you won't be back.

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Lone_RT_rider
Not sure I would trust anything coming out of their mouth at this point. I'm not sure I would even let them replace the wheel bearing either. Pay for the hour or two to check the issue out and nothing for unapproved tire mounting & removal. And let them know you won't be back.

 

I think I would walk into the dealership, demand my bill as it stands and pay it. After that, pull out a tire plugging kit and literally push my bike to the nearest parking lot, fix the flat and ride as far as I could get from that dealership.

 

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I picked it up with my trailer Saturday with a set of PR4gt s after I pointed out that the 5 was not an RT tire yet, and I replaced the wheel bearings. Hoping to break the tires in at STRRT. I had used a stethoscope type device to listen to the front end on the night before but I couldn't decide if what I heard was bearing noise or brake calipers. I haven't been able to ride it yet because of a minor family emergency yesterday. I've owned boxers since my r90/6 in 76 including a couple oilheads prior to this camhead.so I'm generally familiar with how they feel and this vibration was totally different. This RT will go to arrest me speed much quicker than anything other than my st4. Ireally didn't expect them to take it out for a high speed flog. I don't even do it all that often but once in a while when things are right it's fun to pin it ... right? I don't often use a dealer for anything but I wanted to visit the BMW truck and ride a few other machines so it seemed like a good time to leave it. I I will keep the tires and use them this summer riding around FL. I'm back in the FL Keys with the RT up in Titusville for a couple weeks. I'll report back then.

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John Bentall

I have had a lot of conversations with various tyre companies about tire recommendations for the RT.

 

The Germans specify a tire that is suitable for sustained 2-up riding at 120 mph on a German autobahn. If this is what you, do you really must have a reinforced tire.

 

If you are riding at 70-90 mph, one-up, with typical luggage load then a standard tire will be adequate. A reinforced tire would be better- but a standard tire (e.g. Pilot Road 5) will be fine.

 

The RT is right on the cusp of needing a reinforced tire according to the tire manufacturers - whereas the K16 definitely needs one.

 

Hope this helps....

 

*Personally, because I occasionally tour two-up, I always select the reinforced tire.

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I have had a lot of conversations with various tyre companies about tire recommendations for the RT.

 

The Germans specify a tire that is suitable for sustained 2-up riding at 120 mph on a German autobahn. If this is what you, do you really must have a reinforced tire.

 

If you are riding at 70-90 mph, one-up, with typical luggage load then a standard tire will be adequate. A reinforced tire would be better- but a standard tire (e.g. Pilot Road 5) will be fine.

 

The RT is right on the cusp of needing a reinforced tire according to the tire manufacturers - whereas the K16 definitely needs one.

 

Hope this helps....

 

*Personally, because I occasionally tour two-up, I always select the reinforced tire.

 

For me it does not help. Reinforced tire means it can hold more weight. Which is load rating. Can it be more simple? The ability to maintain that load at the specified pressure while at speed with no excessive stress on the tire...is the speed rating. Could that be more simple?

 

If the tires being considered, both having the same load rating (73 for most of the 180/55/17) and the same speed rating (w is common), then why offer a "reinforced" version? I do understand that tires are built to a manufacturers standard for OEM production fitting and BMW or whomever might want a stiffer sidewall to so the could charge more for a replacement tire. Beyond that, I cannot see an argument to support why I need a reinforced tire. And I like to argue!

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Joe Frickin' Friday
That's strange, the Michelin PR-5 are not approved for the R1200RT.

 

catbottle.jpg

 

Bernie, I am both glad and sad I saw your post. A few weeks ago I bought a set of PR5s, and not long ago I mounted the rear tire. Haven't yet gotten around to mounting the front, so maybe not a total disaster just yet.

 

Time to go tire shopping.

 

Again.

 

2013-09-dances-with-cows-ra-edition-005.gif

 

 

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Lone_RT_rider
That's strange, the Michelin PR-5 are not approved for the R1200RT.

 

catbottle.jpg

 

Bernie, I am both glad and sad I saw your post. A few weeks ago I bought a set of PR5s, and not long ago I mounted the rear tire. Haven't yet gotten around to mounting the front, so maybe not a total disaster just yet.

 

Time to go tire shopping.

 

Again.

 

2013-09-dances-with-cows-ra-edition-005.gif

 

 

Mitch......

 

From John Bentall's post.....

 

The Germans specify a tire that is suitable for sustained 2-up riding at 120 mph on a German autobahn. If this is what you, do you really must have a reinforced tire.

 

I know how fast we ride. I know your never 2 up unless your helping out a fellow rider in the middle of nowhere in Southern Colorado. I think you might be fine with the PR5's for now. :)

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I have had a lot of conversations with various tyre companies about tire recommendations for the RT.

 

The Germans specify a tire that is suitable for sustained 2-up riding at 120 mph on a German autobahn. If this is what you, do you really must have a reinforced tire.

 

If you are riding at 70-90 mph, one-up, with typical luggage load then a standard tire will be adequate. A reinforced tire would be better- but a standard tire (e.g. Pilot Road 5) will be fine.

 

The RT is right on the cusp of needing a reinforced tire according to the tire manufacturers - whereas the K16 definitely needs one.

 

Hope this helps....

 

*Personally, because I occasionally tour two-up, I always select the reinforced tire.

 

For me it does not help. Reinforced tire means it can hold more weight. Which is load rating. Can it be more simple? The ability to maintain that load at the specified pressure while at speed with no excessive stress on the tire...is the speed rating. Could that be more simple?

 

If the tires being considered, both having the same load rating (73 for most of the 180/55/17) and the same speed rating (w is common), then why offer a "reinforced" version? I do understand that tires are built to a manufacturers standard for OEM production fitting and BMW or whomever might want a stiffer sidewall to so the could charge more for a replacement tire. Beyond that, I cannot see an argument to support why I need a reinforced tire. And I like to argue!

 

 

To add to the confusion . . . typically the 'GT' tires are the same price as 'non GT tires'. :dontknow:

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That's strange, the Michelin PR-5 are not approved for the R1200RT.

 

catbottle.jpg

 

Bernie, I am both glad and sad I saw your post. A few weeks ago I bought a set of PR5s, and not long ago I mounted the rear tire. Haven't yet gotten around to mounting the front, so maybe not a total disaster just yet.

 

Time to go tire shopping.

 

Again.

 

2013-09-dances-with-cows-ra-edition-005.gif

 

 

Mitch, I think and I know you will be ok with the PR-5, just like I am with the Pirelli Angel GT on my WetHead 18, which is not a approved tire for the 2014-Newer R1200RT-LC.

I am actually waiting for my dealer to tell me that my shifting problems are due because of the use of unapproved tires, installed by a uncertified person.

My argument is that a Factory Dealer should only sell tires that are approved for the product he sells.

While we as individuals are responsible for anything we install or modify to our own vehicles.

I am looking forward to your report on the PR-5's.

Indy Dave, you are wrong about the prices, normally the GT version tires are $5-10 more, but on my bikes they also last a little longer.

By the way Bridgestone makes lots of special versions of tires for different model Japanese Bikes, look through there catalog.

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Joe Frickin' Friday
Mitch......

 

From John Bentall's post.....

 

The Germans specify a tire that is suitable for sustained 2-up riding at 120 mph on a German autobahn. If this is what you, do you really must have a reinforced tire.

 

I know how fast we ride. I know your never 2 up unless your helping out a fellow rider in the middle of nowhere in Southern Colorado. I think you might be fine with the PR5's for now. :)

 

Eh, you and Bernie are probably right. I'll stick with what I've got; that's a helluva lot easier anyway.

 

Thanks for talking sense.

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Bernie - Having just bought 3 sets of tires, I can say that at Rocky Mountain ATV, they do not charge extra for GT tires. At least for the New Bridgestone T31's and the PR4's . I do see that Revzilla does charge extra for the GT version. Rexzilla's prices were also more in general. :wave::stir:

 

 

Edited by Indy Dave
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Bernie - As if there was any doubt - of course you're right :java: . Rocky Mountain seems to be the anomaly in pricing in regards to tires, and when I shopped, the PR4's and T31's were both the same price in standard and GT. Revzilla at that time also had their PR4's std and GT priced the same. This was in mid Feb. There was a price increase in late Feb.

 

I see Rocky Mountain are still pricing the T31's at the same price point, but don't carry the standard PR4's - only the PR4 GT and the Std PR5 (The GT version of the PR5 has not been released yet)

 

Digging a bit deeper - this must be more a Bridgestone thing - as I see elsewhere the New T31's in both versions are priced the same. :beer:

 

I'm covering your Adult beverages even more so now at START :computer:

Edited by Indy Dave
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Yeeha! Stephen
I just wasn't sure where to start with this vibration which starts at the same speed regardless of the gear and is barely noticeable anywhere except through The handlebars.

 

I've been chasing a very similar vibration at 80 and up. Just got back from the Big Bend area of Tejas where you can run those speeds for longer periods of time.

 

I think I've found one of the stick coils breaking down under those bigger loads and making my bars and foot pegs buzz.

 

Swapped the stick coils out with my other camhead bike and the bike runs perfect now. The upper left coil is the culprit.

 

Pain in the ass shade tree diagnosis... changing spark plugs, upper and lower coils one at a time till I found the offender.

 

Not saying that it's your prob, just another place to look if you didn't clear it up with the bearing swap.

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Great advice, thanks. I guess I can acquire a new one and start swapping them as part of the process. Need to check things out next week. I haven't seen any indication on my gs911. If there was something with a coil, would it generate an error code?

Edited by bwpsg42
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