Engine locking tool

Does anyone have this tool who would be willing to loan for cost of shipping or sell? My 03 1150RT failed on the highway as if it ran out of fuel. after researching the issue it seems most likely the Hall sensor needs to be replaced . The bike has about 62K miles. I had just filled with gas and rode 43 miles to work with no issues. I made it almost 1/2 way home before it stopped running. After that I could not start the bike again. Battery is PC680 and I recently purchased the correct battery charger. Not sure how to test the Hall sensor but I decided to be pro-active and order a replacement unit. I drained the tank and will be replacing the fuel filter. I changed the internal tank hoses a couple years ago

Thanks

Bob

Been a long time since I replaced an HES, but I can't recall a need for locking the engine. Don't you just position the crankshaft at TDC, and then adjust the orientation the HES assembly so that it just barely triggers?

I have the crank at TDC using the site hole in the transmission. I see the OT mark and now need to break the bolt loose on the pulley. I have the bike in 5th gear but I cannot seem to get the engine to not rotate even pressing on the rear brake pedal.

If I remember correctly, the belt pulley comes off. I used something I had laying around in the garage. You could use a long bolt or something from the hardware store. This is not a precision tool by any means. I got my sensor rewired with nice aircraft wiring by GS Addict. The wiring goes bad not the sensors themselves.

Does anyone have this tool who would be willing to loan for cost of shipping or sell? My 03 1150RT failed on the highway as if it ran out of fuel. after researching the issue it seems most likely the Hall sensor needs to be replaced . The bike has about 62K miles. I had just filled with gas and rode 43 miles to work with no issues. I made it almost 1/2 way home before it stopped running. After that I could not start the bike again. Battery is PC680 and I recently purchased the correct battery charger. Not sure how to test the Hall sensor but I decided to be pro-active and order a replacement unit. I drained the tank and will be replacing the fuel filter. I changed the internal tank hoses a couple years ago

 

Thanks

Bob

Morning Bob

As Mitch mentioned you shouldn't need a TDC locking tool unless you also have a timing box that works on the 1150 engines. (no need to lock it unless you have a way to precisely time it & even then you can just use the timing marks on the flywheel through the timing hole).

Very few HES failures on the BMW 1150 bikes??

Did you check for a spark? If not then do that & if you have a nice bluish spark then probably not an HES failure.

Stall & failure to start after re-fueling usually points to bad gasoline but you rode it quite a ways so maybe it took a while to get to the junk or it isn't a bad fuel problem.

Next possibility is a split U shaped hose inside the fuel tank (you need to run a fuel return hose flow test before removing or draining the tank to verify this)-- Or carefully inspect the U shaped pressure hose if the tank is already drained & removed.

Or possibly a fuel line clamp was not tight enough & hose blew off fitting inside tank. (again a return hose fuel flow test will tell you this)

Or possibly a failed fuel pump relay (can you hear the pump run for a couple of seconds at key on).

Maybe even a side stand switch failure.

If your bike has a Techlusion on it then that might have failed (will clause a sudden stall & no re-start) so if you have one of those completely disconnect it & try starting the engine.

You need to identify the problem before throwing parts at it or you will never know if it will quit again out on the road somewhere.

Thanks DR, i changed the internal U hose with a kit from Beemer Boneyard a couple years ago and yesterday replaced the fuel filter and sock.

No Techlusion on the bike.

Dumb question on testing spark. Do I simply remove the plug wire and plug, then insert plug into wire and hit starter button?

I guess I just read too much into the sudden power loss and current mileage = bad HES.

I will buy fresh gas from different station and add to tank now that i have fresh filter and internal hoses look good.

Thanks DR, i changed the internal U hose with a kit from Beemer Boneyard a couple years ago and yesterday replaced the fuel filter and sock.

 

No Techlusion on the bike.

 

Dumb question on testing spark. Do I simply remove the plug wire and plug, then insert plug into wire and hit starter button?

 

I guess I just read too much into the sudden power loss and current mileage = bad HES.

 

I will buy fresh gas from different station and add to tank now that i have fresh filter and internal hoses look good.

 

Morning Bob

Yes, remove spark plug, put back into plug wire then lay plug metal body of spark plug on metal part of engine or frame, then crank engine & look at spark plug electrode gap for a bluish colored spark.

Does anyone have this tool who would be willing to loan for cost of shipping or sell? My 03 1150RT failed on the highway as if it ran out of fuel. after researching the issue it seems most likely the Hall sensor needs to be replaced . ...............

Bob

DR gave you lots of items to check out. But, as far as the TDC locking tool goes, an 8 mm or 6 mm hex tool in your toolkit (have one?) will fit into the locating hole and will perform the function. Using a tool to lock the motor at TDC will make removing the pulley bolt easier, but with the transmission in gear and the rear brake firmly depressed you should be able to break that bolt free. Replacing the original HES the right move, even if your current problem turns out to be bad fuel or no fuel delivery. There is a lot of comfort riding your RT in the rain knowing that the HES is not a failure point about to shut you down.

There's a good PDF file on the ADV Rider resources page that shows how to take a hardware store U-Bolt and convert it into a locking tool. 3/8" x 4" x 7" U-bolt. 3/8* is roughly 8 mm.

Just bought 2 new plugs for testing, no spark

Just bought 2 new plugs for testing, no spark

Afternoon Bob

Are you sure that the side stand switch is operating OK? If it isn't that will shut off the Motronic relay killing spark & fuel.

Thanks I will check that later today

Thanks I will check that later today

Evening Bob

If you do track it back to the HES failing then closely check the retaining clip (red arrow in picture).

There was a BMW service bulletin on a certain range of 2003 1150RT's that the clip was incorrectly

made so was cracking in use & allowing the HES wire to rub through.

HI D.R. , I was just outside and cannot determine how to test the side stand switch. I have a clymer but cannot see how the switch functions. I understand the basic that it is part of safety so you don't drive away in first gear with the sidestand down. Should I hear a clicking sound when pivoting the sidestand?

I have the Clymer manual but cannot see how to disconnect the switch to then try to jumper it.

Thanks

Key on, in gear, sidestand down, the RID won't be functional. It won't be lit up and there will be no reading for gas or oil temp. The RID will light up when you put it up. Also you should hear the fuel pump cycle in those conditions when the sidestand comes up.

Hi Jim, that is not the case on the 1150RT. The RID Is functional the fuel pump will cycle, and so long as the bike is in neutral, the bike will start just fine.

K, made some progress this morning after sleep and looking more closely at Clymers I found the sidestand switch. I was looking for a micro switch like I was familiar with from old computers. I finally realized the switch is the round housing in the pivot point. I removed and cleaned the entire area. I do now see a bright spark when placing the plug near the engine. I did purchase an HES and will install that today. The suggestion of using an allen wrench does work to hold the flywheel in place. d.R. the tab you show in the diagram snapped off when I touched it :-(.

I probably will not have much more time this morning but I am very thankfull to all especially D.R. for taking the time to respond.

Hey, Bob,

IF the problem is the HES, a couple of suggestions for you:

To get that pulley bolt loose, try an Indianapolis Impact Wrench (a rubber mallet and a box-end wrench) The inertia of the crankshaft et al should be enough to get it off.

Having the HES rewired by Reto (GSAddict on this forum) is better, faster, and cheaper than a new HES. Last year mine was about $160 USD including postage to Rito in Canada. He does excellent work and quick. See pics.

BEFORE removing the HES plate from the engine, scribe a small scratch from the edge of the HES steel backing plate to the engine case support post. Rito checks and re-uses your HES sensors and backing plate (the sensors hardly ever fail) so that you can re-align the timing with the scratch mark. I understand the ECU controls the fine adjustment of the timing anyway. One sensor is for spark, the other for fuel injectors.

Before and after pics here: HES rewired by GSAddict

Rito provides a new wiring connector:

(This is just beautiful work, too)

The green checkmarks are Rito's. My "scratch mark" is at the bottom right corner:

Hi Jim, that is not the case on the 1150RT. The RID Is functional the fuel pump will cycle, and so long as the bike is in neutral, the bike will start just fine.

Morning Andy

That is the case on the 1100 Ma 2.2 system but on the 1150 Ma 2.4 system. If the side stand switch is operating OK THEN it will work as you stated but if the side stand switch has failed internally then it will crank but not start as the failed side stand switch's 3rd wire will not operate the Motronic's power relay & turn the fueling computer on.

K, made some progress this morning after sleep and looking more closely at Clymers I found the sidestand switch. I was looking for a micro switch like I was familiar with from old computers. I finally realized the switch is the round housing in the pivot point. I removed and cleaned the entire area. I do now see a bright spark when placing the plug near the engine. I did purchase an HES and will install that today. The suggestion of using an allen wrench does work to hold the flywheel in place. d.R. the tab you show in the diagram snapped off when I touched it :-(.

 

I probably will not have much more time this morning but I am very thankfull to all especially D.R. for taking the time to respond.

Morning Bob

If you now see a spark then your side stand switch is currently working OK. That also means that your HES is currently working.

As I mentioned above, very few HES failures on the 1150 engines & then the few that fail are usually due to that clip breaking or a shredded alternator belt.

On your side stand switch-- If you suspect it is not working properly then just jump the red wire to the brown wire & that should by-pass the side stand switch (you should learn how to this anyhow as you might have to do it if your bike quits while out on a ride).

Since I was too quick to change out the HES I will keep the newly purchased unit in place. Is there a voltage that can be measured to verify it is set correctly? I have found documents on how to build a test box but most Radio shacks have closed so parts will be difficult to obtain.

Since I was too quick to change out the HES I will keep the newly purchased unit in place. Is there a voltage that can be measured to verify it is set correctly? I have found documents on how to build a test box but most Radio shacks have closed so parts will be difficult to obtain.

Afternoon Bob

The BMW 1150 Ma 2.4 system is a very dynamic spark timing system so it continually jumps around.

You can check the ignition timing though.

My preferred way is to use a timing light & check total advance with the engine running & watching the advanced timing mark through the little timing hole. (just be sure you run it up to a high enough RPM so it has advanced as far as it will go).

Using a timing box on the BMW 1150 is kind of hit or miss due to the advance dynamics so I never totally trust it on the 1150 Ma 2.4 system.

You can also use the fuel pump trigger-to-on signal (pump runs for a couple of seconds) at ignition trigger. Problem is I don't have my info with me where I'm at right now & the 1150 engine rotation direction for checking fuel pump trigger-on is backwards to the 1100 Ma 2.2 system. I have used the timing light method for so long now I forget the engine direction on the 1150 Ma 2.4 system. (you can probably Google it if you want to try this way just be SURE that you get the correct 1150 info & not the 1100 info)

Final update, the bike is running again. Learned some tough lessons here that I should have followed.

1. keep it simple and do not automatically jump to conclusions.

a. is there spark

b. Is there fuel

c. What changed before this started

2. Check and recheck all fuses

To recap, I made the assumption that the HES must be bad because I read enough other posts that seemed to be similar. I was riding home from work on the highway and the bike just died. I had just filled with gas that morning but the bike ran well on the 45 mile ride to work mostly highway.

After getting the bike home I drained the tank and ordered new fuel filter,sock and HES

Then I decided to replacee the HES ; yes I did also reach out to GSaddict who responded very quickly.

After replacing the HES, I still had the same problem and then found I had no spark.

What I now know is the kickstand switch if dirty can create a no spark issue. Removed the switch, cleaned very well and I now have spark.

Moving on I still cannot start the bike. Think back what did I change? The fuel filter and installed it backwards. Reinstall but still wont start.

Listen to the bike, I don't hear the fuel pump and probably never really listened for it previously. I have servo brakes and all I ever remember is hearing them.

Hmm, I thought I checked the fuses with my voltmeter and they were OK. Check again this morning and either 5 or 6 was bad, not sure which way to count the order.

Now with the wisdom and patience of the board members my 03RT is running again.

HUGE THANK YOU to D.R.

Morning Bob

#1 fuse is on the L/H (shifter) side of the bike.

If fuse # 5 was the blown fuse then that feeds the Motronic & will shut all the engine electronics down. If fuse #5 was the bad fuse then there is a good possibility that you popped that during all your testing (probably not the original failure) .

Now fuse #6 (6th fuse in from the left side of bike) is the fuel pump fuse & if the one was the bad fuse then a few possibilities on that one. Again you might have popped that fuel during testing, OR, check the R/H side Throttle Body cam for possible contact with the o2 sensor wire pig tail, OR, your o2 sensor wire pig tail might be hanging down & touching the hot catalytic converter ( if fuse 6 was the bad fuse then definitely check the o2 sensor wire pigtail for hanging down near the cat.)