Late-Life Biker Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) I bought my 2001 R1100RT just three days ago... coming off a Goldwing. I joined this forum yesterday. (5/31/18) I love the way my "new" bike rides, but in traffic--or when parking--the big, green X neutral gear indicator is unreliable. I have learned to rely on the VDO gear position indicator, but I would still like to get to the root of the dashboard X indicator problem. Any ideas? Tnx. -llb Edited June 1, 2018 by Late-Life Biker Link to comment
szurszewski Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Welcome! There is a switch on the transmission, attached to the outside, that is known to get funky. You "can" clean or replace it without taking the back of the bike apart but it looks like a pain to do. Google search "flaky oilhead neutral light" for all sorts of info (you'll find lots of threads on this forum). It really only is a problem if your clutch switch goes out too. When that happens the bike thinks you are both in gear and engaging the clutch and it will not crank the starter. Link to comment
BF204 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I have a '99 R1100R that also has a with flaky N position switch. It started out as indicating "N" when actually the bike was in 1st, but only happened intermittently when bike was hot. Became all the time after the bike got hot. Now is most of the time, and "N" indicator is often lit no matter what gear the bike is in (not only in 1st gear). The main issue/danger is that when the "N" indicator is lit, the starter could be engaged with the clutch lever not pulled in, even if the bike is in gear. I know about it, and always start bike with clutch in, but if someone else jumped on and wants to start the bike, and for example bangs the shift lever when putting the side stand up, they then could see the "N" light, hit starter and cause the bike to lurch (and probably dump it). Link to comment
Tri750 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) The most common with the switch is actually or WAS known to BMW back in the day as a lazy neutral light . We replaced a number of them under warranty and found that the replacement would last sometimes a couple years or a few months or less . there was no rhyme or reason as to what caused the laziness . in 1999 we switched over to bulk full synthetic gear oil in our service department from Castrol or direct from BMW in the small 1/4 barrels and did notice that the “laziness” did improve . hot weather here in Central Cali also seemed to help . Back then the bikes were relativity new and we had no issues with seeping etc . My 1999 R1100RT with 46k miles has had Syn gear oil in the trans and final likely from the first service and is what i call a “mild case” of Lazy Neutral light . We never get really cold here, maybe mid 30's in winter and i don't ride in that weather any more . Some will tell you to replace it and hope for the best . NOW a light that is ON when shouldn't be i suspect is another issue . possibly a cracked switch or a wiring problem, a seal weep? . on that i am no help . Edited June 1, 2018 by Tri750 Link to comment
Dave P Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 On my 96 sometimes the green light is on when in neutral, sometimes not. I've just gotten used to it. D Link to comment
Late-Life Biker Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 Thanks, guys. I'll have to study up on the intricate interconnections among all those switches. Seems like overkill, but who am I to second guess the Beemer Boyz? For now, I'm riding like Dave P... ignoring the greenie and believing my VDO shifter readout. BUT... I really do hate the fact that I can't put down the side stand and walk away from the bike without it dying on me. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Thanks, guys. I'll have to study up on the intricate interconnections among all those switches. Seems like overkill, but who am I to second guess the Beemer Boyz? For now, I'm riding like Dave P... ignoring the greenie and believing my VDO shifter readout. BUT... I really do hate the fact that I can't put down the side stand and walk away from the bike without it dying on me. Evening Late-Life Biker A simple relay can be added to allow the engine to remain running when in neutral & side stand down (relay connects to in & out legs of side stand switch & high side of neutral switch as well as a 12v connection. BUT!-- it needs an operational neutral switch to work correctly. Link to comment
Dave P Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Yeah, if I want to leave mine running I have to use the center stand. It dies when the side stand comes down. I think it's designed that way. I've just accepted that is how she operates. Bigger fish to fry.... Dave Link to comment
szurszewski Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Thanks, guys. I'll have to study up on the intricate interconnections among all those switches. Seems like overkill, but who am I to second guess the Beemer Boyz? For now, I'm riding like Dave P... ignoring the greenie and believing my VDO shifter readout. BUT... I really do hate the fact that I can't put down the side stand and walk away from the bike without it dying on me. Don't forget that being mostly air cooled your bike will get very hot if left running on the stand - like hot enough to melt the paint/plastic on your lower fairing around the headers. Doesn't really take that long. Link to comment
Jim Moore Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 I really do hate the fact that I can't put down the side stand and walk away from the bike without it dying on me. BMW eventually realized how dumb that setup was, and fixed it on the 1150 series. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Morning Late-Life Biker After you study the switch operation you can either live with the lazy neutral (idle) switch or address the problem. Not at all easy to access the problematic switch as it is bolted on rear of trans under the gear position switch but blocked by the rear swing arm. (same 2 bolts hold the neutral switch & the gear position switch on piggybacked) . Neutral switch (idle switch) is bolted UNDER the gear position switch. It c-a-n be done but sure isn't easy, or smooth, or very accessible as you are working somewhat blind & hindered by the swing arm across the area. Below picture makes it look easy but the swing arm blockage is removed for switch location clarity. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 part 2 of Idle switch -- The neutral switch (idle switch) is driven by the rotating shift drum therefore there is an oil seal between the switch & the rear extension on the shift drum. If that seal seeps (even a little) then thick gear oil enters the switch plunger area causing a lazy or malfunctioning switch. The gear oil can mix with a little road grime that enters the switch interface area & makes the switch even stickier & lazier. In a lot of cases the switch plunger area can be cleaned with WD-40 then lightly blown out with low pressure compressed air so it again functions reliably. If a lot of old gear oil in the switch plunger area then the rear seal leakage will have to be addressed by replacing the rear shift drum seal (that usually demands swing arm removal for proper access). If a slight gear oil presence is found then sometimes switching from synthetic transmission gear oil back to conventional gear oil will slow or eliminate the shift drum seal seepage due to more seal conditioner in most conventional gear oils. Again, not rocket science but a PAIN to access the switch area. Link to comment
Jim Moore Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 part 2 of Idle switch -- The neutral switch (idle switch) is driven by the rotating shift drum therefore there is an oil seal between the switch & the rear extension on the shift drum. If that seal seeps (even a little) then thick gear oil enters the switch plunger area causing a lazy or malfunctioning switch. The gear oil can mix with a little road grime that enters the switch interface area & makes the switch even stickier & lazier. In a lot of cases the switch plunger area can be cleaned with WD-40 then lightly blown out with low pressure compressed air so it again functions reliably. If a lot of old gear oil in the switch plunger area then the rear seal leakage will have to be addressed by replacing the rear shift drum seal (that usually demands swing arm removal for proper access). If a slight gear oil presence is found then sometimes switching from synthetic transmission gear oil back to conventional gear oil will slow or eliminate the shift drum seal seepage due to more seal conditioner in most conventional gear oils. Again, not rocket science but a PAIN to access the switch area. So that's why the light becomes 'lazy." The plunger doesn't pop up, or pops up intermittently. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 So that's why the light becomes 'lazy." The plunger doesn't pop up, or pops up intermittently. Morning Jim Yes, either the plunger doesn't pop back up, or the notch fills with crud, or the switch contacts get covered in insulating oil, or all of the above. Link to comment
Late-Life Biker Posted June 13, 2018 Author Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) A simple relay can be added to allow the engine to remain running when in neutral & side stand down (relay connects to in & out legs of side stand switch & high side of neutral switch as well as a 12v connection. Thanks, DR & JM. That's a great start. Any further information or guidance on this installation would be greatly appreciated. Edited June 13, 2018 by Late-Life Biker Link to comment
dirtrider Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 A simple relay can be added to allow the engine to remain running when in neutral & side stand down (relay connects to in & out legs of side stand switch & high side of neutral switch as well as a 12v connection. Thanks, DR & JM. That's a great start. Any further information or guidance on this installation would be greatly appreciated. Evening Late-Life Biker Check your PM on this site as I sent you a little wire/relay schematic on side stand down neutral-run relay addition. All you need is a little square Bosch relay (most auto parts stores) some wire, & a few crimp-on terminals to fit the relay pins. Any questions just ask. Link to comment
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