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Bank Angle Sensor


The Fabricator

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The Fabricator

Recently was testing picking up my 2000 R1150GS. I was not planning this test. Events dictated. While the unit was on its' side, it was chugging away. It started to clang like the cam chain does upon start up [or tensioner failure]. I attribute this to low oil pressure. This bike does not have a Bank Angle Sensor [aka, tip over sensor]. I want to install one.

I am familiar with some BAS units on Japanese bikes. I have researched the topic on the internet. I bought a BAS from a Yamaha R1 off ebay [$4!]. It has a pendulum arrangement with a magnet that passes what looks like a Hall Effect Sensor, and a transistor, etc. [This component probably operates on 5v dc.] Since the ECU for this bike does not have the circuit for a BAS, it is not compatible. [i would probably wire it into the 'side stand down' circuit.]

 

The question is; Has anyone retro fitted a BAS to a bike? I haven't figured out the BAS circuit sufficiently to generate my own component list and circuit. Has anyone generated such a list/circuit? Can you do it now and post it? [i can probably do it if I locate someone with the electronics back ground or just experiment with some transistors and relays. I'm 67 and time is running out.]

 

I am only interested in this topic not suggestions such as a tether to the kill switch.

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Recently was testing picking up my 2000 R1150GS. I was not planning this test. Events dictated. While the unit was on its' side, it was chugging away. It started to clang like the cam chain does upon start up [or tensioner failure]. I attribute this to low oil pressure. This bike does not have a Bank Angle Sensor [aka, tip over sensor]. I want to install one.

I am familiar with some BAS units on Japanese bikes. I have researched the topic on the internet. I bought a BAS from a Yamaha R1 off ebay [$4!]. It has a pendulum arrangement with a magnet that passes what looks like a Hall Effect Sensor, and a transistor, etc. [This component probably operates on 5v dc.] Since the ECU for this bike does not have the circuit for a BAS, it is not compatible. [i would probably wire it into the 'side stand down' circuit.]

 

The question is; Has anyone retro fitted a BAS to a bike? I haven't figured out the BAS circuit sufficiently to generate my own component list and circuit. Has anyone generated such a list/circuit? Can you do it now and post it? [i can probably do it if I locate someone with the electronics back ground or just experiment with some transistors and relays. I'm 67 and time is running out.]

 

I am only interested in this topic not suggestions such as a tether to the kill switch.

 

Afternoon Tom

 

Are you sure that that Bank Angle Sensor you have is for an engine shut down condition???? Most BAS are used for ABS brake modulation, traction control modulation, throttle modulation, as the braking, traction, & acceleration limits change as the tires are leaned over. The BAS is also a heavily used item for turn signal auto-turn-off after a corner. This type of BAS sends it's signal WAY before the bike is over on it's side.

 

You not only need to have a BAS that will work with bike on it's side but one that will NOT cut the engine in & out as you lean the bike over for a curve or corner. Be very bad Ju Ju if you roll into a bumpy turn a bit to hot, then lean the bike over for the corner & the engine cuts out on you.

 

If you are just worried about engine protection then why not simply use an oil pressure cut-out switch (lose oil pressure & engine shuts down). Would be simpler to implement, would be a lot safer as far as unintended engine shutdown goes, & give you the engine protection needed.

 

Probably just need a 2nd oil pressure switch with a higher pressure set point, a simple engine starting by-pass added to the starting circuit to allow engine quick starting before full oil pressure, (not much to it really).

 

On the upside I doubt you will ever damage a BMW boxer engine laying on it's side idling. There is LOTS & LOTS of splash oiling with the spinning crankshaft & lower connecting rod completely submerged in oil & throwing it all over.

 

I have had off-road boxers on their side sliding down a hill or rolling down a bank with engine still running for many minutes & never any engine damage from it. They eventually stall due to fouled spark plugs or an air box full of engine oil.

 

If they fall over hard enough then in a lot of cases it breaks the fuel pump mounting inside the fuel tank so the pump breaks off the plastic output fitting & THEN they stop running.

 

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FWIW, my 2000 Buell X1 has a BAS located under the seat and it turns off the fuel pump if/when it detects the bike is tilted/leaned below somewhere around 40 degrees. That's well past the point where the foot pegs would scrape the road. No clue how its implemented.

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The Fabricator

DR sez

Are you sure that that Bank Angle Sensor you have is for an engine shut down condition???? Most BAS are used for ABS brake modulation, traction control modulation, throttle modulation, as the braking, traction, & acceleration limits change as the tires are leaned over. The BAS is also a heavily used item for turn signal auto-turn-off after a corner. This type of BAS sends it's signal WAY before the bike is over on it's side.

Yes, it is a BAS for ignition cut out.

Probably just need a 2nd oil pressure switch with a higher pressure set point, a simple engine starting by-pass added to the starting circuit to allow engine quick starting before full oil pressure, (not much to it really).

Interesting idea. There would need to be a manifold to plumb the oil to the 2nd switch.

On the upside I doubt you will ever damage a BMW boxer engine laying on it's side idling. There is LOTS & LOTS of splash oiling with the spinning crankshaft & lower connecting rod completely submerged in oil & throwing it all over.

 

I have had off-road boxers on their side sliding down a hill or rolling down a bank with engine still running for many minutes & never any engine damage from it. They eventually stall due to fouled spark plugs or an air box full of engine oil.

 

If they fall over hard enough then in a lot of cases it breaks the fuel pump mounting inside the fuel tank so the pump breaks off the plastic output fitting & THEN they stop running.

That is your experience and I don't doubt that is probably what would happen for me too.

Just yesterday [!] I took the money from a customer who paid for me to replace the head and cams on a KTM dirt bike. He had taken off the oil PUMP cover thinking it was the oil FILTER cover, and did not notice the drive pin fell out of the pump rotor. Reconstructing his story, I deduce his bike ran a solid 5 minutes before the cams seized in the journals.

Regarding my bike, I [also] deduce the oil pressure dropped because I heard [what I think] was the cam chain clattering after 3 [?] seconds of on-it's-side running.

Applying the same principle for having insurance coverage for my home even though not required [mortgage paid off]+[i live in Northern Calif. where the wild fires had reached a mere 10 miles from my house last September], I just want the engine to turn off simultaneously with the cylinder head touching the ground.

The manufacturers seem to prefer using a BAS for this purpose.

DR, I recognize and appreciate your knowledge and regard you as a go-to resource.

As an aside, I don't want the wheel spinning. What if I and/or wife are pinned under it?

 

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Would it not be possible to retrofit something like my Buell BAS and wire it to the fuel pump or ignition relay? I'm pretty sure there is some sort of a mechanical switch inside the BAS unit - a 2''x2''x1' black box, because I can hear a clicking sound inside it when I had it off the bike and moved it side to side. Just thinking out loud.

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Would it not be possible to retrofit something like my Buell BAS and wire it to the fuel pump or ignition relay? I'm pretty sure there is some sort of a mechanical switch inside the BAS unit - a 2''x2''x1' black box, because I can hear a clicking sound inside it when I had it off the bike and moved it side to side. Just thinking out loud.

 

Afternoon kalali

 

The Harley & Buell uses a tip over switch not so much a Bank Angle Sensor. (I think it is a magnetic switch function as they are, I believe, a 3 wire).

 

Problem is (as far as I know anyhow) the tip over delay (there positively needs to be a function or trip delay so the engine doesn't quit while leaned way over on a rough road) is in the turn signal electronics (at least I think Harley used the turn signal system for input to the bike's electronics but that's no guarantee that is where the delay circuit is located).

 

If yours trips I believe that you need to stand the bike up straight then cycle the ignition to reset.

 

But you are correct in that it would be an easy install as it is a simple little box. The difficult part would be in the 1-2 second trip delay needed.

 

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I am only interested in this topic not suggestions such as a tether to the kill switch.

However, to meet your criteria easily and effectively, this would be the way to go. When you part company bike stops.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
As an aside, I don't want the wheel spinning. What if I and/or wife are pinned under it?

 

 

Speaking from personal experience with this exact scenario, I can say that the mixed blessing is that one can reach up and hit the kill switch. After which, one can try to figure out how to extract one's self. But first, have somebody take a picture.

 

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