I am appalled

..... By myself mainly.

Why?

Because for some reason unbeknown to me - really ! - I haven't been riding anymore like I used to do. And I really don't know why, although I have been trying to analyze the situation. This has been going on for some 2 years now. It also sort of kept me away from these boards. I used to write ride tales and post pictures, but without riding there ain't much to tell.

So..... any of you hit the same problem somewhere during your riding 'career'?

I know it is not because not having the equipment. Until a year ago I had my trusted 1150 RT and the 2007 GS. And although I had to sell both last July, I got me a brand spanking new liquid cooled 1200 GS here in Italy. Althought I still lack some things like a coolvest and a tankbag, that's not the problem.

One of the reasons we moved south was the improved riding weather and environment. The fact that the roads here in Umbria are mostly bad is not a real problem ever, the GS copes fine. And the vistas are awesome here!

Nor is the fact that my Nikon camera broke down a real reason... the Galaxy smartphone works wonders while on the road.

So what is it then?

My get-off 2 years ago at Gunnisson ? For sure I have been riding a bit more apprehensive since and haven't been wearing summer (mesh) gear since, which IS a problem here in Italy where we are experiencing the second summer with extreme heatwaves. So maybe I should just shrug and ride in shirtsleeves like so many Italians? I am very hesitant about that, being an ATGATT ambassador.

Or is it the fact that ever since Nina stopped working she now needs LOTS more attention, i.e. we constantly need to do things together now and we have very different interests. Nina also is less enthusiastic about riding because it ruins her hair every time *cough*. But surely I cannot put the blame on her.

Related to that..... I officially retired last October because it was too much of a hassle to move the business to Italy, and besides I was hardly making any money out of it anymore. Now being retired there is definitely WAY LESS TIME for anything for some reason.

Or maybe it is just all the hours lost on Facebook that's eating up my riding time? I have been heavily reporting our life's adventures there for the past 5 or 6 years already, which does take a toll. It most certainly has taken time away from my own blogs AND these boards because it is so much quicker and easier 😔. (maybe we can change that in future).

Or am I just getting old and above all LAZY (it is true I am not particularly fun of very high temperatures.... yeah, yeah, I know, Italy), and it is so much easier to hop in the little Volkswagen, turn on the air I and go exploring the country. Getting on the GS for some reason always takes an HOUR for me, old fussy guy. Gettig my gear together, rucksack ready, food and drinks prepared, getting the bike out the garage AFTER getting he car out first, getting dressed.......oh, and getting Nina ready, because she doesn't want to stay home alone anymore...... So much fuss.... I haven't been able to change those routines, but they seem to have gotten longer since we moved from Holland.

One last issue.... the Netherlands don't have the best of climates all year 'round, often cold in the long winters and wet in the summers (although that seems to be changing fast now

). So I figured France of Italy would greatly improve my riding conditions. Well, turns out not everything is as ideal as it may seem.

For sure the environment for riding is more beautiful here (or at least I think so), and winter days are longer and less cold, less wet, hardly any ice. But summer is a problem. Turns out it is too hot and the daylight is LESS, and on the roads here you don't want to ride in the dark.

Anyway...... thanks for bearing with me..... I sorta hope that returning to the boards and writing again may somehow also help me get riding again...... Who knows!?

Wishing you all fun and safe miles !

Ye Old Grumpy

Francois, yes heat can cool desire to ride.

We have that 6 months a year. Used to laught at

BMWMOA "riding mileage" contest that ran Mayl to October and covered our hottest months.

Often wished they had 2 6 month windows to ride as we often rod 3-4-5-10 times the miles in the cool months.

My riding changed, health, not age. Became fewer in times and miles.

Interest changes, SWMBO changes, especially with retirement.

We stopped most of our day rides and I rode those solo, but we did 3-4 trips per year.

Then I reduced solo riding and almost all "our" riding was trips 1500-2000 mile 3-4 days to the mountains.

Eventually health (particularly in heat) changed more and riding back from elevation and cooler temps to sea level and heat was challenging.

The last 2 years I rode I had gone from 20-30,000 miles in a good year to 3,000. Then 2,000ish.

So, reality began to rear its ugly head. I miss riding. Every day.

We miss riding together. The journey, communicating via intercom, sitting together 10-14 hours enjoying a shared passion.

And, the, of course, the people. We met hundreds of great people and many of our best friends were met on 2 wheels.

So, yes, things change. My .02 is, while you can do, do.

Don't plan as much. Be impulsive. Ride to ride. Suit up, take some fluids and a snack, there are places out there to get stuff.

Ride solo if Nina wants some space or a good hair day.

If that doesn't light your fire, assess. Plan a nice 2 up trip with plenty of time to make it fun.

Assess. Sometimes we change.

We both miss riding.

A lot.

Maybe more.

Gradually other things enter or re-enter a life.

I planned on riding and working for many more years.

Taking me a long time to accept changes. We talk about the trips and people with fondness and enjoy the memories.

Realizing one can't ride anymore is/was difficult for me. Separating the rider from the me is an ongoing process.

We'll see...

So, ride when you can. Be realistic, be willing to admit things can change and that makes you neither better or worse as a person.

It doesn't have to be a negative outcome.

Just different.

Best wishes.

So..... any of you hit the same problem somewhere during your riding 'career'?

Yeah, I'm in the doldrums here too. For a long time I've been doing at least two road trips per year, and a decent number of local Sunday-afternoon rides. But lately, not so much. In 2016, I didn't take any road trips, and only did a handful of local day rides. In 2017, I attended the Un in Fontana Village, but that was it for road trips for me; I could probably count on on hand the number of Sunday-afternoon rides I took around here that year. And this year? I've gone for exactly one Sunday afternoon ride, and got caught out in a downpour without rain gear.

So what's going on? :confused:

In August 2016, I crashed my car. It involved several seconds of out-of-control sliding at highway speed, during which I fully comprehended that I had a good chance of dying. The impact totaled my car. No injuries whatsoever, but that was down to pure luck, and the crash was entirely my fault. To say that it affected me would be an understatement. Anyway, I just laid off of riding for the rest of that season, including cancelling out of FART.

In 2017 I was doing better, and went to the Un in June. Had a really great time, enjoyed the rides and the crowd and the food. But there was a cloud over the entire year: my mom was terminally ill. She grew worse over the summer, and she finally died on Labor Day. As you might expect, I wasn't in a good frame of mind for riding in the months surrounding that day. I suppose I'm still adjusting even now, and will be for a long time.

So here we are in 2018. I was all set to go to START this April. Brand new tires on the bike, sidecases fully packed and ready to go, gear laid out for quick morning getaway. And then we got a heavy snowfall the day before departure, and the forecast for START called for some pretty chilly temps. In years past I've relished the challenge of toughing it out through adverse conditions (2003 spring El Paseo, anyone? ), but these days I just don't feel like toughing it out anymore. The novelty of riding when it's 35 degrees has worn off. And so I cancelled.

And speaking of novelty wearing off, that applies to local roads, too. Some of you are blessed to live within a short distance of fantastic roads. Me? Not so much. You can find a few curves around here, but they're few and far between, and the scenery is kind of bland, not much elevation change. Nothing like the Smokies or the Rockies. It was all exciting and new when I first came to town in '99 and bought my first RT, but it all seems kind of mundane now.

On top of that, my garage situation has changed. Until 2013, I always parked my car outside in the summer so the RT could be parked in an open garage space, ready for rapid egress. After I got a new car in 2013, I started parking it in the garage year-round, which meant that the RT was always shoved up against a wall, with the mirrors and sidecases removed and stored on a shelf. Want to go for a ride? I push the car as far forward as I can, wiggle the RT out into the open, put the sidecases on, put the mirrors on. Don't forget to put on riding pants, boots, belt, jacket, gloves, and helmet. Same thing in reverse when I come home from my ride. Adds a lot of overhead to a simple 90-minute afternoon ride, reducing the appeal.

Outside of that, the usual daily life stuff always seems to intrude - or maybe I just use that daily life stuff as an excuse? Faucet needs fixing, branches need pruning, Mojo needs making, something needs to be taken care of. If I really wanted to go for a ride, I'd push these things around a bit and make a space of a couple of hours. But I don't. Sunday afternoons seem to be hotter than I would like, but that didn't used to hold me back, even in the early days before mesh gear. I'm just not passionate enough these days to push aside the excuses and rationalizations and get out there.

When I sold my '99 RT in 2009, it was ten years old and had 135,000 miles on it.

My 2009 RT is now 9 years old and has 45,000 miles on it.

My mileage so far this year is 60.

I suppose we shouldn't judge anyone by how many miles they ride; someone who rides 20,000 miles per year is not a better person than someone who doesn't ride at all. But the bottom line is that I'm not what I used to be and I'm a bit bothered by it. Mostly because it hadn't changed appreciably for so many years; it hasn't been a slow steady drift from Ironbutt to barnacle, it's more like someone flipped a switch in the past couple of years.

Thanks Tim and Mitch !! Answers much appreciated, from both of you.

Health issues are more regrettable, I am sorry to hear it Tim.

A lot of things Mitch writes are very recognizable, including the garage situation (which I am trying to change, but will take yet another year.... grrrr).

My main worry right now is, am I sitting here with a brand new and very expensive GS and in a new riding country just because I could..... and should I have NOT bought it?

Or is it just a slow-down of things ….. and not a breakdown.

I still enjoy riding and most certainly the new gadgets AND the new environment, but everything currently seems to scheme against getting on the bike.... I am trying to buy a coolvest and even that now has taken almost 4 months !

Now, if only I could get to posting pictures again, via smugmug's html links and other barricades instead of just drag-and-dropping them here.....

One thing I CAN do and also promised myself..... I'll start posting here and on my weblog again and take that time away from my FB activities.

Francois,

I recognize a lot of the different issues you wrote about, and can relate.

Geri and I are 'getting up in years' as well, but I am NOT giving up, not yet!

It seems 'life' happens so different to all of us, and sometimes we allow it to paint us into a corner, and a corner we didn't see over our shoulder. We have to 'take life by the horns' and NOT stop exploring.

We just got back from our week long Dinosaur Trail Tour that took us a couple years to go on, primarily because of last years wild fires making getting out of the smoke nearly impossible no mater what direction we could've chosen to ride our of Missoula, Montana. Fires in our own neighborhood as well as those from British Columbia, Canada all the way down to Southern California was causing the most sever smoke/health issues here and for several weeks.

We had a great ride, and I am anxious to go again, this year, so we have to choose. Fires have gotten bad again in California and somewhat in Oregon and Colorado, again, and that is the direction we are considering. A trip up into Canada would be terrific, and I'm waiting on my passport renewal to arrive! Put that off a little longer than was prudent.

Thanks for sharing and getting all that off your chest. Our life directions won't change, though, unless we take the definitive steps to do so. Moving the car to get the bike out is the same here, but by God, I'm going to DO IT!!!

Don

Mitch, El Paseo Spring, 2003. Wasn't that the trip you bought out various stores supplies of hand/foot chemical pack warmers on the way down?

Francois, buyers remorse is real. Try to get past normal feelings and move to appraisal of here and now wrt keeping the bike or not.

It took me several years to accept. Another year to sell.

You'll figure it out.

Best to Nina.

I understand. I was talking with a non-rider the other day saying that I was glad that I did the trip to Nova Scotia when I did, as I no longer look forward to back to back to back 600 mile days. With prostate cancer last year and then my hip this year, I've ridden very little since FART. About 1000 miles total and most of that on the scooter. We, like many places this summer, have had unusual heat and humidity and thinking about gearing up and riding in high temp/humidity loses it's appeal.

Add the fact that I'm 72 and not 50 makes some things less attractive.

My goal is to be at FART. Still on walker 3 weeks out from hip replacement surgery. Plan on trailering to FART as I won't have much time to build up riding endurance before hand.

I've accepted that fact that we will not own another boat. Hard to imagine after 40 years of boat ownership but, life changes, and so must we.

When there is no longer any enjoyment from riding, I will stop. Now it is an incentive to get better as soon as I can.

We'll find our way to happiness Tim 😀

Don and Geri I admired and enjoyed your Dinosaur run! Great trip!

And Bud, heal fast please and hope you'll make it to the FART!

Thanks for all your comments and insights. Really appreciate it. It is good to read these thoughts and get my mind around things again. Not giving up yet, that's for sure 😊

It's a different stage of life, one where our motivations and values change. Sure wish I'd seen it coming. I'm determined to retire if four or five years and downsize until there's time to go riding. In the meantime I've got to make enough money to pay for it...

Francois, while I'm not experiencing the funk towards riding you are, I have been going through changes in riding habits too! I recall 3 years ago when I retired my wife's first comment was "you're not going on motorcycle trips all Summer". On paper that might be suspected, but I have settled to the normal traditional trips I have been taking during my working years for the most part. But my mileage from local rides has nosedived. The traffic hazards of the modern day with all the distracted drivers texting on their phones and the impaired drivers as well. Well known in the US that the opioid epidemic exists and I don't suspect hardly any of them parking their vehicles. These factors have convinced me on many occasions to just skip that little joy ride around town. I still love a good sortie with some curves, but I tend to ride more when the weather is ideal as the heat bothers me much more as I have gotten older too. I've paid my dues riding in the rain, but locally if I have to spend longer on bike cleanup than I spent riding I opt out of the ride. I've been privileged to reach the 50 years of riding milestone this season and when my time comes to quit riding I'll be at peace with that decision, but not yet.

I have entered the arena of vintage motorcycle events and writing a bit about them as well that have been a satisfying sideline without much riding involved too.

Best wishes on getting your riding Zen figured out!

Dennis and George, thanks for your thoughts and sharing experience :-)

Back in 2013, we were looking to purchase a scooter for my wife. After talking with Paul Mihalka, we decided on the Yamaha Majesty, as he was quite pleased with his.

Well for the past few years the riding has slowed down quite a bit. My wife has not ridden in 2 going on 3 years. I have also scaled back to 1 BRP ride a year.

Since the Majesty has just been sitting, we decided it might be time to sell it. So, I took it apart and went through everything. I also painted it Sienna Red Pearl. [yes that's a Harley color]

Anyway, since spiffing the scooter up ,it now looks new, I find myself hopping on it on a near daily basis. The RT and R60 now find themselves sitting more than ever. As age creeps up on me,

I still have the passion to ride, but find it so much easier to hop on that scooter. I decided to keep the scooter for myself as I concede that the times are a changing. I do not have the heart to sell

the RT and will never sell the R60, but know their time is coming, just like mine

Bruno

(anytime you want to come over, we still have an extra bike and a guest room)

My get-off 2 years ago at Gunnisson ? For sure I have been riding a bit more apprehensive since and haven't been wearing summer (mesh) gear since, which IS a problem here in Italy where we are experiencing the second summer with extreme heatwaves. So maybe I should just shrug and ride in shirtsleeves like so many Italians? I am very hesitant about that, being an ATGATT ambassador.

PTSD is a real thing, and you don't have to be in combat to get it. After I broke my collarbone in NC, I was very tentative on the bike and not really comfortable for quite a while. It took a trip to Torrey to get my mojo back on pavement, and I'm STILL less comfortable on dirt than I was in the days leading up to the crash.

What is it about the mesh gear? Refresh my memory, did you not find that your mesh gear provided adequate protection in your get-off? I can understand being leery of it, if so, but every ride is a trade-off between safety and pleasure. You can't ride safely if you're experiencing hyperthermia.

Or is it the fact that ever since Nina stopped working she now needs LOTS more attention, i.e. we constantly need to do things together now and we have very different interests. Nina also is less enthusiastic about riding because it ruins her hair every time *cough*. But surely I cannot put the blame on her.

I wonder about that. I see all your posts on FB about going places with Nina, including shopping, and it leads me to wonder whether she has yet to get comfortable going places by herself in Italy. Have you discussed that with her? Every couple needs some "alone time" away from each other now and then. Has she made local friends she can go shopping with, or do other things with? How's her Italian? If less than perfect, is she working on it?

Have you made local friends you can go riding with? I find having a riding partner makes a huge difference in my motivation to go riding. Anybody in San Diego want to go for a ride?

Or am I just getting old and above all LAZY (it is true I am not particularly fun of very high temperatures.... yeah, yeah, I know, Italy), and it is so much easier to hop in the little Volkswagen, turn on the air I and go exploring the country. Getting on the GS for some reason always takes an HOUR for me, old fussy guy. Gettig my gear together, rucksack ready, food and drinks prepared, getting the bike out the garage AFTER getting he car out first, getting dressed

Yeah, I have that, too. I hardly do any local rides. I'm a guy who sweats profusely at any temperature above about 78F, which means nearly every ride ends up with my shirt wet and my body sweaty and sticky, and I hate that, so that's a disincentive. San Diego County has some great roads, but they're too crowded on weekends (my weekdays are pretty well scheduled, which is another problem. I ride my bicycle more than my motorcycle, because I've got two scheduled rides and one planned but flexible ride every week) and I've ridden all of them many, many times. Most of my local riding now is when I ride my KLX250S to my volunteer job, but I only do that when it's not going to be so hot that I'm going to loathe putting my 'stich on after working out in the sun all day.

So, basically, my riding is down to two or three BMWST events per year, and a handful of local rides.

I've dropped off of riding lately too. Riding for me is more just another way to get around. While I do love it, I don't share that same incessant compulsion to ride, like many folk here seem to have. Most of my riding was doing the commute. Recently, we lived in Hawaii for a couple years. We brought the bikes, and no car. Since moving back to Washington, I live 2 miles from work, which makes for a very nice walk. A couple things that I found, living without a car: A) I was always shopping for a car. And B) it sorta took the fun out of it for me. Every trip, even short beer runs, had a sweaty unpleasant component. Since moving back, I just haven't gotten back to the point of doing anything that resembles fun. Moving, buying a house, recovering from Hawaii prices, looking for work, starting a new job, 2 blind geriatric little dogs at home, and my mom passed away this spring.... And now we got a bunch of chickens, a big garden, and a lot of home improvement projects (okay, well most of that stuff can be fun).

I don't see the lack of riding becoming a permanent thing though. I've been looking at getting a dual sport, for some local trails. And it won't be long - the dogs will croak, and we'll retire. Then we can give the chickens away, and be gone for months at a time. I've got Alaska, the Trans-Canada highway, the Great Lakes, New England and the whole East coast on my to-do list. Hopefully it won't all be on one big, mega trip where I get home and sell the bike to the first sucker that comes along. ;-)

Francois, Tim, Mitch and others that have shared in this timely posting, thank you for sharing your insights and perspective on your riding as so many of us are entering a time in our life that are bodies, minds, goals and risk/reward perspectives are changing - sometimes from day to day.

For over 50 years of my 73, my only passion other than my profession has been motorcycles. My wife of 51 of those years has always supported me when it came to riding. She never wanted to do more than a few hours on the bike but we enjoyed many leisurely rides exploring Guam, Okinawa Japan, Hawaii and other places we have lived. After hip and knee replacements she no longer rides at all but still encourages me to do so. I started out with street legal dirt bikes and finally after a 40 year hiatus from the off road stuff just 2 months ago purchase an '18 BMW R1200 GSA. I do not ride locally in the DC area and no longer do the Sunday rides over to West Virginia. Most all of my riding now is to BMWST events. My motorcycle "hero" Paul Mihalka rode until he was 82. I still have the passion and currently the health to ride and hope that will continue at least through the warranty period of the GSA!

Hope to see some of you at FART '18

My first thought was to your get off. It could be other things as well, but that's my first guess. If you ride again, just start it out slow and work on safety habits. I ride daily and one result of that comfort is I start to get inattentive to details. Over time I ride faster and with more confidence, but I'm not watching for cars pulling out or spills on the road; I start working a work problem in my head. I have to remind myself to put my head in the game.

I LOVE riding. I have since I was 8. My cousin has been riding even longer and still ride super cross at Southern CA tracks. He's 58 and I know of no better rider.

If the riding is something you really love, don't worry about it. You'll get back to it. if not, then it's a set of great memories of friends and rides.

One more thing. Don't try to keep up with Larry and his friends. He'll stop...eventually and wait for you. He does at least for me.

I know many people who have hobbies as a lifestyle. Their hobbies define them. The hobbies are lifetime dedications for these people, and their immersion makes them quite expert. They seem very happy with this arrangement.

I am not like this. I'm all in for a while, a few years usually, then one day I notice I have wandered off to something else. Jack of many trades, master of none, some might say. Sometimes I wander back and wonder why I left.

Maybe you're more like me? Just ready to take a break.

Another thought, re Nina not wanting to stay home alone: is she maybe a little freaked out because of the break-in of your place while you were in Holland?

This is weird advice to give on a motorcycle board, but I can't help wondering whether some counseling for both of you to help you get over past incidents might improve your lives in several ways, including more riding.

Hi everybody and many thanks for all your contributions and thoughts. Somehow I am glad to see I'm not the only one pondering on these things once in awhile :-)

While waiting for the airco company to call me back (yeah, right....) let me answer a few questions, particularly by Bill (thanks Bill !).

Yes, I think the get-off most certainly plays a role in the issue, but not so much in not riding and more in 'no more sport' in the SportTouring. Especially here in Italy I was always worried of losing the front end, ever since we came here.

The roads are often very ' diverse' (to put it mildly), and oil-spills are never cleaned. We live in a agricultural region and there are as many tractors as motorcycles on the road. They tend to come off their patch of land right in a corner, leaving earth, clay or gravel in the bend....

But lo and behold, never happened... until I got to Gunnison... LOLOL !

The 'hassle and heat' is my second inhibitor. Never was, but I have gotten more comfortable (not to say lazy). Maybe getting the new garage built and having an easier access to the bike will help. Getting some summer gear will too.... just so bothered by getting on all the 4 season gear and sweating it all out just by getting dressed. (oh yes, and I too sweat profusely.... !! Very uncomfortable, and never mind they keep telling me it is healthy).

Which brings me to another question Bill asked: the mesh gear. I posted a picture in my crash analysis two years ago. Must be here somewhere still. Basically I still have scars on bot of my arms from the ' mesh-rash' (is that a word?), caused by the friction of the sliding mesh and it heating up apparently. I had nice imprints of the mesh structure in my flesh (skin was gone). Also, my mesh gloves just split open at the seems and both of my hands had rash wounds as well.

So that made me very apprehensive of mesh gear after that experience. But I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet, because in our current riding environment I either have to wait till winter, or get dressed lighter.

(Oh and the cooling vest I ordered STILL hasn't arrived..... but hopefully some day it will).

Then the fact that Nina is not always ready to come along. Yes, not having hobbies is (in my eyes) a major deficit. I tried to get her into lots of things these past 43 years, but somehow ' hobby' is an alien thing to her and her family.

It is mainly regarded as a total waste of time and money. And yes, we did have quite a few ' discussion' on my view, being a ' I live for my pleasure and hobbies' kinda guy … LOLOL

Nina DOES have social contacts here, even more than me, because she picked up Italian quicker (and all her Romanian came back too). But no, she doesn't venture out much and still is very apprehensive of driving by herself, even though we changed cars and we got her a brand-new, small automatic.

Driving has never been her thing really. She misses her bicycle.... but on our steep hills here that's just not an option. (Never mind the tractors and crazy Italian drivers).

My biggest joy in riding were the long treks and the photo shoots of what we saw..... I don't think we'll be doing that anymore, so I am limited to one-day rides at most, unless I leave on my own.

And no, no riding friends here... except a GS tour guide but he's mostly riding with customers. None of the expats here ride. And most Italians only ride crotch rockets, racing through the hills, not my style :-)

Actually the most fun riding we've done since we live here was with American friends visiting ! And that's a fact !

So there's the solution... BMWST members, get your butts over here and we'll show you what Italy REALLY is (and not all the Tuscany and Rome crap)!

Another thought, re Nina not wanting to stay home alone: is she maybe a little freaked out because of the break-in of your place while you were in Holland?

 

This is weird advice to give on a motorcycle board, but I can't help wondering whether some counseling for both of you to help you get over past incidents might improve your lives in several ways, including more riding.

No, we're not too worried. We think we know who did it.... and many people around us tacitly agree. But no proof and very dangerous to oust anything on the subject. We don't think it will happen again.

Hills.

Ok.

Check out electric bicycles.

They have come a long, long way.

Hills.

Ok.

Check out electric bicycles.

They have come a long, long way.

Yes, but then there's still the Italian traffic, read: drivers …. LOLOL (Our daughter in Switzerland has an electric bike, so yes, we know)

Hills.

Ok.

Check out electric bicycles.

They have come a long, long way.

 

Yes, but then there's still the Italian traffic, read: drivers …. LOLOL (Our daughter in Switzerland has an electric bike, so yes, we know)

Yeah, you've got narrow, winding roads with no shoulders, let alone bike lanes. Scary place to bike (people ride bikes on roads like that here, too, of course. I always think they're nuts. And I ride my road bike 50-75 miles per week, so I'm not speaking from inexperience).

Well then, perhaps a Vespa?