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Failed driveshaft question


sardineone

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I have a question to any Hexhead owner that has had a failed universal joint. Was there any minor mechanical rubbing sound prior to failure. My hearing is still top notch and I have detected a very slight metallic rubbing sound from the driveline or tires. Most audible around 40mph before wind noise drowns it out. I've pulled the clutch, applied the brakes and swerved on my tires to isolate the problem. A mechanics stethoscope can hear in swing arm with the bike running in gear on the center stand. A small chance it's the front brake pads I installed last year that are semi-metallic and will make a minor sound on very light application. All brake pads have plenty left in wear indicators. I've inspected my rear universal joint recently while changing the rear end fluid and found nothing wrong. I inspected the front u-joint by pulling back the rubber cover and appeared ok. My bike has around 49,500 miles on it at the present. Other than my concern about this sound my bike is running stellar even getting 49 mpg running on the darn gasohol in my area on one easy ride lately. :dontknow:

Edited by sardineone
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By turning off the ignition and coasting in neutral at about 20 mph, I noticed an unusual ticking/clunking from my 06 RT's drive area. Wasn't sure what it might be, but when describing it to an experienced BMW mechanic, he suggested I ride it no further, trailer/truck it to him and have him dismantle the drive area for a look. Turned out to be a failing rear U-joint at 214K miles.

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Thanks for the feedback Yellowknife. I see you got pretty good mileage out of your driveshaft assy. Hopefully just a false alarm in my case as no ticking/clunking in my case...……...yet!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Mine failed at 88K miles fwiw ('08 RT). What I noticed before absolute failure was a rattle/banging noise when letting out clutch from a stand still - but not always. I ignored this for several months before it really went big time - I was going down the freeway and it started clunking against the case and was immediately obvious that I needed to stop NOW, which I did. I coasted off the freeway, down an off-ramp and got to a parking lot, called BMW MOA roadside assistance and had it towed home. I've done most of my own repairs on the bike, and have replaced u-joints on a variety of cars and trucks over the years, but had no time to deal with it (there are two u-joints btw, one at each end of the drive shaft, in sort of a CV joint arrangement). So I took it to the dealer - and was shocked (sort of - I've become jaded) at the exorbitant price BMW charges for a simple part. Labor was like 1 hour, total was $1.66K (also replaced rubber boot on drive shaft at same time). They replace the entire drive shaft assembly, not just the u-joint - it is not considered serviceable below that level of assembly (by BMW). Fortunately the shaft had not knocked around enough to cause serious damage to the housing.

 

At the time I did some digging on alternatives, and as I recall there was someone out there who does re-builds using your existing drive shaft. But you have to be able to afford the time to remove yours, ship it to them, and then get it back and re-install. At the time the bike then was my daily commuter, so that was not an option; I needed it fixed ASAP. But might be something to look into if you want to save $.

 

Jim

 

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Thanks for the feedback Jim. I've already looked around a bit for a rebuild when or if necessary. There are some options for oilheads, but no viable for hexhead which by design isn't very easy to rebuild. :mad:

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I'd be interested in a reasonable alternative to complete replacement. A $1,000 part shouldn't have to be thrown away when only a joint is loose and it is usually an inexpensive bearing inside and with a press can be changed.

Planned obsolesence? The repair business has become the more profitable parts replacement?

Mark

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From what I remember, the original joint cups are staked in place. The joints can be removed when these are ground away. The new joints are held in place by washers placed in the hole and welded in four spots. Before this is done the joints have to be centered correctly. This is done between centers in a lathe using a dial indicator.

Ed

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Morning George. The rear u-joint on my '05 failed at 72K miles; no warning, riding down the interstate around 80 the bike started shaking. Pulled in the clutch with no effect, gave it gas to no effect. Bike started slowing so I moved to the right shoulder sliding the rear tire the whole way as it had locked up when the u-joint totally separated. Prior to that I had been good about checking wheel movement, rocking it back/forth checking for play or sound as I had already read of several failures. The splines were well lubed as I had to drop the rear axle to change the fluid which I did at every service. Insurance covered the tire, driveshaft housing, and repair but not the driveshaft itself.

 

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Many years ago I worked for a company that made drive shafts and front wheel drives.

 

We had a lathe type machine and we would mount the shafts onto, and spin them the equivalent of 100 mph. Some would wobble horribly and run out gauges would show where to mount and weld weights to balance the shaft. And another spin would show if the weights had balanced the shaft, or not.

 

With that in mind, I would not want to try a rebuilt shaft unless I knew the procedure they used that would assure that type of balance, or if I could check the balance.

 

So I'd buy a new one, or get a used one only from a reputable source.

dc

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Riding season ended at 80 mph in the left lane of I89 in Vermont last month. Kept the 2007 RT's shiny side up when my driveshaft failed. Anyone tried the Ted Porter sold driveshafts? Mileage to date? Thanks!

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Sardineone, I'd say yes to a mechanical rubbing (vibration) on acceleration. I had my first driveshaft implode on my 09 and there was something there, I just wasn't sure. Last summer I had the driveshaft go on my '13 RT and there was definitely a rubbing feeling (more like a vibration) on acceleration. It was intermittent and I entertained (read: hoped) it was the road surface. It wasn't. A couple hours later I was stranded on a highway with no cell service. If you feel an abnormal vibration on acceleration, I'd take it apart and look....right away.

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George - Sorry to be late to the party. EricIndy and I rode through torrential rain and some hail on the way home from a 'Art in Helen, GA. The next morning, I'd found a small puddle under the final drive. It was water coming from the boot. I'd not sealed the boot with grease (didn't know I needed to) from the last FD service I'd done and water was finding its way inside. When I dropped the FD, I could feel movement restriction in the rear u-joint.

 

Long story short, I sent it off to Machine Service in WI and they rebuilt it (with serviceable u joints) and I was off and running again. However, this Winter when I removed the driveshaft to lube both u joints, the Zerks had sheared off. Machine Service had since started using flush mount zerks, and they replaced the sheared ones with the flush ones. Good to go.

 

I'm happy with the driveshaft - but on the RT's, one had to remove the driveshaft to lube the U-joints - so keep that in mind when making your choice. As you probably know, to remove the driveshaft on the RT requires removing the Swing Arm. Not a big deal once you've done it.

 

Best of luck!

 

https://www.machineservice.com/

 

Edited by Indy Dave
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  • 2 months later...

Hi Dave,

 

Somehow I missed the continued conversation on this post.  I haven't put many miles on my bike in the mean time, but the driveshaft is still on my mind.  Can you provide more details in an email or PM such as details on the driveshaft after the repair(replaceable bearings?) and cost?  Also anything beyond obvious on the swingarm removal that I'd need to know?

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  • 4 weeks later...

My hexhead (09) had a U-joint failure at 36K miles.  There was a little vibration upon acceleration. 

 

Same for my 13 camhead (I know, I'm just unlucky).   On that bike it was much more obvious.... 

 

There are earlier threads, not sure if you can search the old site.  

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Mine basically exploded on the freeway at 75mph. (86000mi)

It was still working a little and I tried to limp my way off the highway and ended up making it worst.

This what it looked like...

Drive-shaft-failure.jpg

P-20170626-115304.jpg

 

I had to replace both the swing arm and the driveshaft.

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  • 1 month later...
CoarsegoldKid

My front u-joint came apart at 93K or so miles.  The sound was as you would expect a rotating metal component would make as it banged around the swingarm tunnel.  Recently at 115K or so I began to hear a rubber on metal rubbing sound from the rear.  Heard it at parking lot coasting speed with the clutch.  On the centerstand turning the rear wheel I could hear a sheech, sheech sound.  Well upon disassembly the crown bearing and the pinion bearing were not smooth and dragging.  I'm sure I caught it before destruction.  I was going to have it rebuilt but bought a used one that felt smooth, no sounds, like new.
I suggest you take the final drive off and inspect it for sounds, drags, loosemess, notchyness of both the pinion and drive gear. It may be the issue.  If it passes your exam take the swingarm off to access the driveshaft, remove driveshaft and inspect the it.  Because if the driveshaft is the problem you must remove the final drive and swingarm anyway.

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  • 2 years later...
WickedMonkey
On 10/24/2018 at 6:34 PM, Indy Dave said:

George - Sorry to be late to the party. EricIndy and I rode through torrential rain and some hail on the way home from a 'Art in Helen, GA. The next morning, I'd found a small puddle under the final drive. It was water coming from the boot. I'd not sealed the boot with grease (didn't know I needed to) from the last FD service I'd done and water was finding its way inside. When I dropped the FD, I could feel movement restriction in the rear u-joint.

 

Long story short, I sent it off to Machine Service in WI and they rebuilt it (with serviceable u joints) and I was off and running again. However, this Winter when I removed the driveshaft to lube both u joints, the Zerks had sheared off. Machine Service had since started using flush mount zerks, and they replaced the sheared ones with the flush ones. Good to go.

 

I'm happy with the driveshaft - but on the RT's, one had to remove the driveshaft to lube the U-joints - so keep that in mind when making your choice. As you probably know, to remove the driveshaft on the RT requires removing the Swing Arm. Not a big deal once you've done it.

 

Best of luck!

 

https://www.machineservice.com/

 

I am a few years late on this, hopefully your are still around, Dave. I think I have a u-joint/driveshaft issue. How much did it cost to have them do the work on your driveshaft?

 

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2 hours ago, WickedMonkey said:

I am a few years late on this, hopefully your are still around, Dave. I think I have a u-joint/driveshaft issue. How much did it cost to have them do the work on your driveshaft?

 

 

Different Dave here but Machine Service rebuilt a 2005-2007 drive shaft for me about 6 months ago for $260 parts and labor. Shipping both ways added about another $50.

 

Circumstances were I bought a [reportedly] used 40,000 mile swing arm/final drive/brake rotor with the drive shaft off eBay for a spare for my 2007 RT and wouldn't you know when I inspected the DS one of the bearings in the rear joint had a 'catch' in it. I sent that one off for rebuild as a spare.

 

Bernie showed me a performance test I do about monthly with my RT in order to hopefully stave off a surprise failure. I slide the brake caliper over to the left to open up the pads so there is no brake pad rubbing or friction. The wheel has to rotate with no brake pads touching the rotor. Center stand of course. Rotate the rear wheel back and forth both ways and listen for clicks, clunks or any noise other than a sort of light single tap as the slack in the final drive or U-joint takes up when going back the other way. It's the lightest of tap noises and I'm almost not able to hear it without being right next to the final drive on the right side. Now with a cold engine start the bike in neutral, hands off the clutch. Observe the rear wheel begin to rotate slowly just from the friction of gears bathed in cold 20w50 oil. If there is any catch or roughness in one of the 8 bearings in both U-joints hopefully we will see the catch or roughness in a bearing prevent the slow initial smooth rotation of the wheel. Pull in the clutch to stop the rear wheel from turning then let it back out to resume.

 

Of course this may be all BS and means nothing for early diagnosis but at least if forces me to closely examine the drive train on a regular basis.

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WickedMonkey
3 minutes ago, dduelin said:

 

Different Dave here but Machine Service rebuilt a 2005-2007 drive shaft for me about 6 months ago for $260 parts and labor. Shipping both ways added about another $50.

 

Circumstances were I bought a [reportedly] used 40,000 mile swing arm/final drive/brake rotor with the drive shaft off eBay for a spare for my 2007 RT and wouldn't you know when I inspected the DS one of the bearings in the rear joint had a 'catch' in it. I sent that one off for rebuild as a spare.

 

Bernie showed me a performance test I do about monthly with my RT in order to hopefully stave off a surprise failure. I slide the brake caliper over to the left to open up the pads so there is no brake pad rubbing or friction. The wheel has to rotate with no brake pads touching the rotor. Center stand of course. Rotate the rear wheel back and forth both ways and listen for clicks, clunks or any noise other than a sort of light single tap as the slack in the final drive or U-joint takes up when going back the other way. It's the lightest of tap noises and I'm almost not able to hear it without being right next to the final drive on the right side. Now with a cold engine start the bike in neutral, hands off the clutch. Observe the rear wheel begin to rotate slowly just from the friction of gears bathed in cold 20w50 oil. If there is any catch or roughness in one of the 8 bearings in both U-joints hopefully we will see the catch or roughness in a bearing prevent the slow initial smooth rotation of the wheel. Pull in the clutch to stop the rear wheel from turning then let it back out to resume.

 

Of course this may be all BS and means nothing for early diagnosis but at least if forces me to closely examine the drive train on a regular basis.

This is a HUGE help! Thank you! I hope mine can be rebuilt because all of them I am finding will cost that much and will be suspect as to their integrity. So for that price, Approx. $310 total,  you just sent them the drive shaft you had, as-is, and they replace the u-joints, make sure it's all good and send it back?

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4 hours ago, WickedMonkey said:

This is a HUGE help! Thank you! I hope mine can be rebuilt because all of them I am finding will cost that much and will be suspect as to their integrity. So for that price, Approx. $310 total,  you just sent them the drive shaft you had, as-is, and they replace the u-joints, make sure it's all good and send it back?

 

In a nutshell that is correct. Turnaround was a couple of days after they received it. The U-joints feel silky smooth FWIW.

 

There were some posters in ADV Riders that experienced problems with Machine Services rebuilds within 20,000 miles. The threads were very old for the most part but still it was something to think about. If there were more problems than there were or more recent threads of problems I would have gone with the twice as much rebuildable one from Ted Porter. There used to be two other rebuilders but the choice seems be down to one now.

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