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Both, with some qualifiers. In my locale it can get very hot, but more importantly, I can experience a wide range of temperatures as I head out for a ride/trip. An example of this is when I left for the Un in Wisconsin a few years back. Temperature in Hurricane, UT was mid 70's, 37 as I rode through Circleville, UT, and 400 miles later in Grand Junction, CO it was 104.

 

I have a pair of mesh pants, but I find they are not a good idea in extreme heat since they can allow engine heat to cook your legs in certain situations, like slow going through towns/cities or in side wind conditions. My regular BMW pants have proven to be fine in the heat and offer good protection from engine heat. The mesh jacket is something I will carry with me so I can change out whenever the conditions call for it. My Olympia AST 2 is good to around 80, but much above that has me switching to the mesh.

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Both, with some qualifiers. In my locale it can get very hot, but more importantly, I can experience a wide range of temperatures as I head out for a ride/trip. An example of this is when I left for the Un in Wisconsin a few years back. Temperature in Hurricane, UT was mid 70's, 37 as I rode through Circleville, UT, and 400 miles later in Grand Junction, CO it was 104.

 

I have a pair of mesh pants, but I find they are not a good idea in extreme heat since they can allow engine heat to cook your legs in certain situations, like slow going through towns/cities or in side wind conditions. My regular BMW pants have proven to be fine in the heat and offer good protection from engine heat. The mesh jacket is something I will carry with me so I can change out whenever the conditions call for it. My Olympia AST 2 is good to around 80, but much above that has me switching to the mesh.

 

 

I use mesh most of the time, as I too find non-mesh to be too hot after about 85-90 F. With mesh I can always add layers. I find I don't have room to carry two jackets. But then I have a cpap and all that crap, plus my camera gear.... LOL

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My regular gear is a two piece motoport mesh set. I don't usually change much with the lower half other than switching between jeans/pants and shorts underneath (if it's really hot I just wear LD comfort, or similar, shorts underneath, but usually it's normal street clothes), but the top half gets more changes. Instead of a liner I use a Patagonia nano puff type jacket (thin windproof synthetic down) and can add layers under that. If it's really chilly or rainy, I have a shell I can put on over the mesh - works great as you end up with lots of "insulated" space underneath.

 

On the RT and LT I hardly ever had to wear "warm" stuff under the mesh as the airflow was limited; on the Ducati I am much more susceptible to the changing ambient temps. I don't know if even own any non mesh stuff anymore...

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If I am traveling its Olympia mesh with there wind proof liner and a Gerbings liner I find that it cover most temp extremes and BMW pants and a thin rain liner Just in case....

Edited by Norm 83
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Around here, both sets required.

Teens in winter, 110 in summer.

And rain gear...

 

So, preference is cool/dry, warm/dry,

Gerbings too.

 

My favorite mesh has the mesh jacket w/armor and reinforced abrasion areas.

A wind/waterproof liner, and a thermal liner.

So it could work in a wide range of conditions.

I've worn mesh with liner, Gerbings and a rain jacket down below freezing ambient.

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Danny caddyshack Noonan

Mesh. Motoport mesh for the last 7 years or so. I run hot, so non-mesh below 70-75 is not too comfortable even though I really like the Kilimanjaro. Overshell and Gerbings for 9 plus hour rides in 50ish degree temps across the spring desert.

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As usual, the answer is "it depends". (And, no, I don't mean the adult diapers....)

 

My go-to is a 2 pc roadcrafter. They've done a nice job with the ventilation, so it's tolerable in most heat - provided you're moving. If it's gonna be reliably hot for the trip, I'll use a mesh jacket (perforated leather actually), and bring along a set of Frog Togs, just in case. I've never gotten around to buying mesh pants. Prolly should do that one of these days....

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Given where I live and mostly ride, I finally settled about 5 years ago on perfed leather as my 3 1/2 season jacket. I tried mesh for a long time, but it let through too much air. For brief periods of cold, a windproof overjacket or my Gerbings works fine. Pants ? Never liked mesh there either. Finally settled on pair of Joe Rocket leather pants ... they work surprisingly well summer or winter. All this is valid as long as you're moving. Stop and go in 100+ weather ... nothing works.

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I go with mesh for local rides when it's warm, but for touring, I like my BMW Rally suit, which has pretty good ventilation even behind the RT fairing. Touring nearly anyplace but due north from here requires crossing the Mojave Desert, and I've had trips to Torrey and back where it was 100+ crossing the desert, and around 30 leaving Torrey to come home. I can wear an evaporative vest under my regular jacket with the vents open and be pretty comfortable in the heat, while not getting dehydrated by excessive evaporation, which can occur with mesh gear in high temperatures. The vest doesn't take up anything like the space required for a second armored jacket. And I don't want mesh gear when it's cold.

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I don't buy the excessive evaporation argument. Not at all. In fact I think it's just plain dangerous. Evaporation keeps you cool, period. Anything that limits it has the potential to lead to heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

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Lots of sweating/evaporating is also a good excuse to stop and drink more, and take more pictures, and stretch more, and I think those are all good things.

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I don't buy the excessive evaporation argument. Not at all. In fact I think it's just plain dangerous. Evaporation keeps you cool, period. Anything that limits it has the potential to lead to heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

 

Jan, Bill and I are all over the place wrt agreeing on things.

 

But, here I do.

A lot of experience in real feel 100-110+ plus asphalt.

Usually I prefer mesh.

At a certain temp/humidity can't beat it.

Rain can be a blessing, cooloing you off.

However my experience with my textile jacket/evaporative cooling vest on a 7,000 mile summer trip was that it was better than mesh or mesh w/evap vest.

The mesh lost moisture at a much faster rate and can evaporate your sweat before it becomes sweat fooling us wrt body heat etc.

Not claiming to be expert, just comparing muti-thousand mile trips/heat mesh vs mesh/evap vest vs textile w evap vest.

Best wishes.

 

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Mesh during the summer, non-mesh for spring and fall riding. I wear a Helite airbag vest over both, and am on a fully faired Burgman 650, so I so appreciate the extra cooling during the warmer months.

 

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Mesh vs not mesh in heat does stir up a.....discussion. I don't buy the "mesh won't work" argument either. On certain bikes, you can stay fairly cool in non mesh gear as long as you are moving at a good speed. But if you get in slow or stopped traffic it can be dangerous!

 

Some people sweat more than others in the same conditions. I imagine that makes some difference. I don't sweat hardly at all. When I tried the evap vest under the Aerostich I thought my legs were in black plastic garbage bags. There is NO airflow for you legs in that type gear. So, I wear mesh in the heat. On a naked bike maybe I would see it differently. But on a fully faired bike I need some air onto my legs and upper body.

 

My ice cooling system should work better in solid textile gear. But it doesn't. So I wear the ice water vest, then put my old evap vest over that to keep some air off it and then textile gear. NOTHING beats that in the heat!

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I don't buy the excessive evaporation argument. Not at all. In fact I think it's just plain dangerous. Evaporation keeps you cool, period. Anything that limits it has the potential to lead to heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

 

The problem with "excessive evaporation" occurs after you've been sitting on the bike for hours on end. If you're not paying attention (very easy to do for some of us), and just keep riding, you WILL eventually become dehydrated, stop sweating, and that's actually when the heat related illnesses hit you. How to prevent it, (IMHO) is all about trading one set of problems for another. Either you're comfy and need to stop, drink / douse yourself all the time, or you can zip up a little, put up with a little more heat, but you're all wet and muggy inside your clothes. The advantage is you can *perhaps* get by with consuming a little less water. Mind you, it's not zipping up tight and sealing yourself off from the heat. It's all about moderating the air flow across your carcass to a level where you're reasonably uncomfortable.

Edited by elkroeger
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I wear a 4 season jacket with 8 vents year round in AZ. I have ridden in 110 degree temps this way without an issue. I wear a wicking shirt and pour water down the sleeves if required to cool down. I wear Klim mesh pants in the summer and a First Gear non-mesh shell the rest of the year, or on the rare occasion I will see rain.

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I don't buy the excessive evaporation argument. Not at all. In fact I think it's just plain dangerous. Evaporation keeps you cool, period. Anything that limits it has the potential to lead to heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

 

The problem with "excessive evaporation" occurs after you've been sitting on the bike for hours on end. If you're not paying attention (very easy to do for some of us), and just keep riding, you WILL eventually become dehydrated, stop sweating, and that's actually when the heat related illnesses hit you. How to prevent it, (IMHO) is all about trading one set of problems for another. Either you're comfy and need to stop, drink / douse yourself all the time, or you can zip up a little, put up with a little more heat, but you're all wet and muggy inside your clothes. The advantage is you can *perhaps* get by with consuming a little less water. Mind you, it's not zipping up tight and sealing yourself off from the heat. It's all about moderating the air flow across your carcass to a level where you're reasonably uncomfortable.

 

Is there any evidence that you sweat less, e.g. lose less water or salts when bundled up? Is there evidence that you sweat more when bundled up? I would expect that the effect of bundling up is to increase body temp, increase sweat, and ultimately increase heat-related stress.

 

Yes, you have to drink a lot in hot weather and replace salts. You do not necessarily need to stop all the time. For example, some wear a CamelBack or similar and drink as they ride.

 

 

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Joe Frickin' Friday
For example, some wear a CamelBack or similar and drink as they ride.

 

+1. Have been using a Camelbak since '01; can't imagine riding in hot weather without it.

 

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Jan,

 

Think Bedouin. Covered head to foot, and more, extreme heat.

 

The sweat rate should be equal, all things considered, for an individual, in mesh or textile when moving.

What varies is the evaporation.

Mesh it happens before sweat forms so you lose some natural cooling, don't perceive the evaporation fluid loss as much, possibly until too late.

Mesh it acts in evaporative cooling as body designed.

I found good air flow pants, textile jacket, evap cooling vest (90 minutes or so depending on), sleeves a bit open, over gloves, vents open, neck open

would work really well when extremely hot and traveling long distances.

Same conditions local/day ride couple hundred miles I'd probably just use mesh and hydrate.

 

The problem with that, IMO, on a long multi day/weeks, thousands of miles trips is the possibility one can end up

underhydrated without warning, it happens.

Very few people use a one piece 'stitch in these parts of the world. Too hot. Period.

Plenty use Aerostitch 2 piece variations. Hot yes, better flow apparently.

 

Remember, as fluid intake doesn't keep up with bodily fluid loss, changes occur.

Pee darkens.

First obvious sign (usually)

So yes, can ride w/out stopping, and hydrate, wearing any gear and be good.

My personal experience was with the mesh set up it always depended...

there are places I would ride in mesh no worries because temps rarely approach or maintain the levels we have.

That seems to be changing.

 

Riding long distances and not having to stop often just might be a sign one isn't hydrating properly.

YMMV

:wave:

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I don't buy the excessive evaporation argument. Not at all. In fact I think it's just plain dangerous. Evaporation keeps you cool, period. Anything that limits it has the potential to lead to heat exhaustion or heat stroke.

 

The problem with "excessive evaporation" occurs after you've been sitting on the bike for hours on end. If you're not paying attention (very easy to do for some of us), and just keep riding, you WILL eventually become dehydrated, stop sweating, and that's actually when the heat related illnesses hit you. How to prevent it, (IMHO) is all about trading one set of problems for another. Either you're comfy and need to stop, drink / douse yourself all the time, or you can zip up a little, put up with a little more heat, but you're all wet and muggy inside your clothes. The advantage is you can *perhaps* get by with consuming a little less water. Mind you, it's not zipping up tight and sealing yourself off from the heat. It's all about moderating the air flow across your carcass to a level where you're reasonably uncomfortable.

 

Is there any evidence that you sweat less, e.g. lose less water or salts when bundled up? Is there evidence that you sweat more when bundled up? I would expect that the effect of bundling up is to increase body temp, increase sweat, and ultimately increase heat-related stress.

 

Yes, you have to drink a lot in hot weather and replace salts. You do not necessarily need to stop all the time. For example, some wear a CamelBack or similar and drink as they ride.

 

 

Well, that's the idea, anyway. I can't answer your questions on sweating more or less (although the idea is that your overall fluid loss would be less). Surely there's an exercise physiologist that has studied it, and published a paper somewhere. But like I said, it's about moderating the hair dryer that you're riding in. Yes, you can easily bundle up too much, and not have the desired effect.

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Is there any evidence that you sweat less, e.g. lose less water or salts when bundled up? Is there evidence that you sweat more when bundled up? I would expect that the effect of bundling up is to increase body temp, increase sweat, and ultimately increase heat-related stress.

 

Yes, you have to drink a lot in hot weather and replace salts. You do not necessarily need to stop all the time. For example, some wear a CamelBack or similar and drink as they ride.

 

 

I don't think you do sweat less if you're not wearing mesh. But in high heat and low humidity, if you have lots of airflow the sweat evaporates from your skin very, very quickly, to the point where you may not be aware that you're sweating and you may not feel any cooling effect from that sweat (whether it's actually cooling you is a matter for science. I can't say I've studied the effectiveness of different evaporation rates). This makes it easy to not realize how hot you are until it begins to be too late.

 

I keep a CamelBak bladder in my tank bag, with a retractable cord that holds the hose, so I can grab a drink when I want to but don't have the weight of the water on my back killing any airflow inside my jacket.

 

One time I tried riding with my evaporative vest (of the soak it and wear it kind) under a mesh jacket while crossing the Mojave. I FROZE for about 20 minutes, after which the vest was dry. Seriously, I was starting to shiver. Under a regular jacket with vents open, the effect of the vest lasts for an hour or two. On last month's trip to Torrey, I wore the Rally jacket with vents open (as did longjohn, who was riding with me). We hit temps of 100-105 from the Nevada-California line to Mesquite. I didn't bother with the evaporative vest, and was surprised to find that I felt pretty good (although who knows whether it contributed to me succumbing to the sinus infection that hit me Saturday morning).

 

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Like most of the gang, I use both depending on what kind of trip I am on. If it is a day ride, and late spring, summer and early fall I use my BMW Mesh Jacket and Olympia Mesh pants for local (day rides) journeys. If it is dead of summer then I use my BMW mesh jacket and Rev'It four season pants for all my journeys. Now, for long distance (multi-day) and late fall to early spring (I ride all year) I use my Olympia MotoQuest Jacket and Rev'It four season pants. I love the MotoQuest because I can turn it into a mesh jacket by unzipping some regions, and it has surprising airflow.

That is my $0.002 worth on this topic

 

Mike

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If I am traveling its Olympia mesh with there wind proof liner and a Gerbings liner I find that it cover most temp extremes and BMW pants and a thin rain liner Just in case....

 

+1 for Olympia mesh. LOVE my Dakar 2 jacket.

 

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