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Diesel and Off Ramps


Medic Mike

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Afternoon everyone!

I just finished my last road trip of the year from NC to OH and back to NC. After 2200 miles over seven days, it came to an end. While on my way North, jumped onto I77 just outside of Charleston WV (yes, this was my first mistake) to try to make up some time after riding at slower speeds in the rain since the VA line. After being stuck on the highway for almost two hours due to an crash, I needed to use the facilities fairly bad. So, I got off I77 and headed to the nearest gas station. What I did not know was that the recently extricated tractor trailer was towed down the same off ramp leaking diesel fuel. I was going about 10 mph due to wet roads and the very tight turning radius of the off ramp. Well, when I hit the apex of the off ramp, my front tire found some diesel fuel and decided to left while the rest of the bike was going right ( I was leaned...kind of...for a right hand turn, and the handle bars went violently to the left). Needless to say the bike went down, than god for crash bars, on the off ramp. So, here is my question, what could I have done to keep it upright? I did not hit the brake(s), was looking through the curve...all the things you are supposed to be. I have been racking my last few brain cells trying to see what I could have different. I did not know this was the path they removed the truck and there was no oil dry on the road.

Ideas anyone?

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Afternoon everyone!

I just finished my last road trip of the year from NC to OH and back to NC. After 2200 miles over seven days, it came to an end. While on my way North, jumped onto I77 just outside of Charleston WV (yes, this was my first mistake) to try to make up some time after riding at slower speeds in the rain since the VA line. After being stuck on the highway for almost two hours due to an crash, I needed to use the facilities fairly bad. So, I got off I77 and headed to the nearest gas station. What I did not know was that the recently extricated tractor trailer was towed down the same off ramp leaking diesel fuel. I was going about 10 mph due to wet roads and the very tight turning radius of the off ramp. Well, when I hit the apex of the off ramp, my front tire found some diesel fuel and decided to left while the rest of the bike was going right ( I was leaned...kind of...for a right hand turn, and the handle bars went violently to the left). Needless to say the bike went down, than god for crash bars, on the off ramp. So, here is my question, what could I have done to keep it upright? I did not hit the brake(s), was looking through the curve...all the things you are supposed to be. I have been racking my last few brain cells trying to see what I could have different. I did not know this was the path they removed the truck and there was no oil dry on the road.

Ideas anyone?

 

Afternoon Mike

 

It doesn't have to be a damaged vehicle that is leaking. Lots of trucks leak a little diesel as the fuel sloshes around in the tanks as they exit the freeways on tight exit ramps.

 

As a rule the dripping fuel, dripping motor oil, other fluids migrate to the outside of the curve so I ALWAYS stay to the inside of the curve on exit ramps, even more so when the roads are wet. (not fool proof but much safer on the inside of the curve)

 

Same with toll booths, most fluids drip in the center so I like to stay out of that region.

 

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There comes a time, thanks to physics, when speed, lean angle and traction just mean the bike is going down. Other than avoiding the spot I don't think there's much if anything you could have done. And since you said you couldnt tell there was diesel there, it's not reasonable to think you should have avoided the spot. Bad luck on the crash but great having crash bars and not being hurt.

 

The only real way to be certain you won't be in a moto crash is to not get on a moto. Same for car crashes. If we choose to ride or drive the best we can do is work to find and mitigate as many of the risks as possible.

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32 years ago on a dry spring afternoon I leaned into a left hand bend on Riverside Drive and 97th street in Manhattan and before I knew anything was wrong I found myself sliding down the road. Stunned, I got up and promptly went right back down again like a Chevy Chase SNL cold open routine. I got back up again, more carefully this time, to discover that the entire road was covered in an invisible layer of oil. Just bad luck/timing. Bike was banged-up but easily repairable - IO rode it home with the left handlebar more or less pointing vertically up, and it took six weeks for the road rash on my left knee to heal.

 

You can't alway see what's on the road. Luckily you weren't hurt and the bike fared OK too. Since then I've always accepted that, while I can be hyper-vigilant, I can't guarantee that I can prevent some future incident. It's par for the course so don't beat yourself up about it. Learn what you can and move on.

Edited by Pappy35
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As a rule the dripping fuel, dripping motor oil, other fluids migrate to the outside of the curve so I ALWAYS stay to the inside of the curve on exit ramps, even more so when the roads are wet. (not fool proof but much safer on the inside of the curve)

 

Same with toll booths, most fluids drip in the center so I like to stay out of that region.

I understand avoiding the center of lanes. But why do fluids migrate to the outside of curve. If the curve is banked, as freeway ramps often are, the outside of the curve is uphill. Wouldn't fluids tend to either stay put or migrate down to the inside of the curve?

 

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Joe Frickin' Friday
I understand avoiding the center of lanes. But why do fluids migrate to the outside of curve. If the curve is banked, as freeway ramps often are, the outside of the curve is uphill. Wouldn't fluids tend to either stay put or migrate down to the inside of the curve?

 

Oil/coolant/fuel dripping off of a vehicle tends to get launched on a tangent to the curve - which means it lands on the pavement farther out than the radius at which it dropped. The only way it would migrate toward the center of a banked curve is if there's so much of it that it can flow instead of just dampening the surface of the pavement in one spot.

 

If the cap is left off of a fuel tank, a tank on the inside of the curve probably isn't going to leak, since the fuel will all be sloshed toward the outside of the curve (away from the uncapped fill port). For a tank on the outside of the curve, the fuel will tend to slosh toward the uncapped fill port, and you're more likely to get a substantial spill at or just beyond the outboard tire tracks.

 

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As others have stated avoidance of where the slippery stuff typically is found is good practice, but as you said it was something you were not able to see due to wet roads. Maybe if the lighting is just right you would see an oil sheen where the fuel was, but that is being lucky. if I read your account of the event right you had your front end push (under steer) into low side crash and Ive got to say if you're going down then a low side crash is usually the least injurious to you and machine...getting pitch off the high side is way worse. Not much of a consolation as a crash is never a good event.

 

To your question of what could be done to keep it upright, probably not much. With fuel slicked tires I doubt there is much that can be done as that stuff has your tires slipping and sliding no mater the inputs and will effect traction for a great amount of time/distance. If it were a sandy patch you might pull out a save by essentially following your front end and steer (lift) the bike out of your arc and try to get your torso over the center line of mass. Along with don't grab a hand full of brakes, don't chop the throttle either.

 

And even then it is a maybe save. If that somehow worked and are able to get the front wheel back under you, the danger becomes where is that unplanned course correction taking you. On an off ramp maybe just a wild ride in the grass. On a two lane road, maybe into some oncoming vehicle.

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Danny caddyshack Noonan

I agree there's nothing you could have done. It could have been worse even if a slow lowside.

I went down on my LEO bike in a gas spill in an intersection turning left. I saw and smelled it at the same time. My brain said stand the bike up but I was already down. Saddlebag broke my ankle and that's why I'm an engineer now. My beat partner did the same in diesel about a month later just to help make me look blameless.

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Way back in the 80's on a hot day on interstate 70 in eastern Colorado I took an exit that was straight, slightly down hill. I was on my

Kawasaki KZ1300 which was the size of a Buick. Ramp had been oiled and sanded but with it being so hot the oil was as slippery as

owl dung on a silo ladder. Full tank slappers with the rear wallowing back and forth. I could only use a little rear brake and luckily there was

no cross traffic as I shot through the stop sign, crossing 4 lanes and up over in to the grass beyond.

Had the wife hop off and I rode back to the road without dropping the beast. Tyres and underside were covered in oil.

As luck would have it there was a self serve car/ truck wash there so I was able to get most of the oil off and we continued on.

That was a real awe s--t moment.

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Once you lose traction in the front, you are just along for the ride. The only time I've had a street bike down was on my old RT. It was the week between Christmas and New Years and I was leaving for work on a new front tire. As I was pulling out of onto the main road by my house, I hit a patch of black ice with the front tire and was laying on my side before I ever had a chance to react. The new front tire could have contributed as well, but either way.....I had zero time to do anything about anything. I didn't even have the clutch completely released and the bike was down with me still sitting in my riding position holding onto the handle bars. Bike was fine, I was fine....No harm, no foul. I really shouldn't have been riding due to the temps, but the real lesson was that once you lose that front traction, especially mid turn, you are toast.

 

Glad you are ok

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Maybe you could have saved it if you'd let the handlebars do their thing and kept looking through the turn, but that's a skill level that's way above most of us, and requires a level of concentration that's hard to maintain when riding for long periods of time. You see racers make some amazing saves on both dirt and asphalt, but that's a skill that gets honed to a very fine edge, and usually with the added benefit of a motorcycle that's set up specifically for them in addition to being a lighter, race-specific machine. If you have an interest in developing that skill set, off-road riding and especially dirt-track riding where you're sliding both wheels can get you comfortable with lower traction situations. But let me emphasize that even those skills won't work all the time, as even the best riders still crash from time to time. Riding conservatively in dicey conditions is probably the best way to avoid accidents, and having good hear will often lessen the damage done to your body when an accident occurs.

 

I'm glad you came through it OK.

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Mike - Glad you're home and got your miles in. Very sorry to hear of the diesel incident. Like many others have said, once in it like you were - not much you can do. Honestly, I'm a little surprised we don't hear of this more often. It's always easy to second guess and such - but unless you had days and days for your trip out and back - some non back roads were in order out of necessity. It's worth noting that - especially this time of year (harvest season in The Hoosier) - the back roads are full of additional hazards - combine's that literally take up the entire road, spilled grain, mud across the road between fields, SPILLED DIESEL, slow moving convoys and trailers with no working lights/turn signals, etc. I was out on back woods field roads yesterday and i experienced ALL of those things! I could smell the diesel and see it - so I was lucky (and going in a straight line). Don't beat yourself up over road selection - the hazards are everywhere. Ramps of course offer a greater probability for being oiled up due to the concentration of traffic and trucks - but it's not like you can just off road it to get off the interstate.

 

Take care and hope to see you in Sparta!

Edited by Indy Dave
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Thanks everyone. I was flustered and a little annoyed with how things went down (figuratively and literally) and kept kicking myself about it. Helps my Id a little to know there was not much I could have done to stop the slide. Dave, I am planning on being there in Sparta.

Thanks again Everyone

Mike

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If you were leaned right and the bars went left, that sounds like you hit something? Or do you mean the left bar went forward?

 

And yeah, sometimes there is no answer and literally nothing you could have done differently except not ride that day.

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Danny caddyshack Noonan
If you were leaned right and the bars went left, that sounds like you hit something? Or do you mean the left bar went forward?

 

And yeah, sometimes there is no answer and literally nothing you could have done differently except not ride that day.

 

Very often the front tire will just go "up" in a low side. Left if down on the right, right if down on the left..

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Very often the front tire will just go "up" in a low side. Left if down on the right, right if down on the left..

 

 

Sure - while leaned right the front tire goes left. That's the definition of a lowside. But the bars don't go violently left, they go violently right. That's why I asked the question. For the bars to go left while leaned right requires manual input or some other force acting on the front wheel/tire.

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