Pro injector cleaning ?

Hi all. 03 Rt1150.

In my quest to smooth the surge and eliminate pinging I have installed an Af-xied unit, rebuilt the throttle bodies, installed a new O2 sensor. I also hooked a fuel line to a can of injector cleaner , attached it to my injectors and sprayed it thru them for a while. My question is, if I send my injectors out to be cleaned, would a pro job do better than what I tried ?

Hi all. 03 Rt1150.

In my quest to smooth the surge and eliminate pinging I have installed an Af-xied unit, rebuilt the throttle bodies, installed a new O2 sensor. I also hooked a fuel line to a can of injector cleaner , attached it to my injectors and sprayed it thru them for a while. My question is, if I send my injectors out to be cleaned, would a pro job do better than what I tried ?

Afternoon joeb

Possibly or possibly not, it DEPENDS on how clean you have them now.

By sending them out you will (should anyhow) get a report back on how matched they are before & after the cleaning but keep in mind that a lot of injector shops skew the data to show that THEY really helped your injectors.

Aside from the report, which is useful, most pro services will also provide new o-rings and injector screen/filter.

Or just invest in the newer style EV14's from injector rehab. They do matched flow. And it wakes up the motor.

I don't know much about this from a motorcycle point of view...however on horizontally opposed engines in general aviation, injector balance is very important. Differential pressure and firing can cause engine damage as one side pulls and pushes hard and the opposite side doesn't. There are many cases where this has caused crank failure. The FAA created some rules around how much variation can exist from side to side. There is a company called GAMI that can balance injectors. Whether they can balance them on motorcyles, I don't know. They aren't cheap, but have a great reputation. Im sure there are people in the motorcycle world but I don't know who they are.

Hi David. I think with the number of injected Boxer engines out there, if there were an issue, we'd have known about it by now!

What is not in doubt though is that a nicely matched set of injectors can make the bike a lot nicer to ride.

Or just invest in the newer style EV14's from injector rehab. They do matched flow. And it wakes up the motor.

+1

On another bike, I once pulled my injectors and sent them to a shop for calibration. The cost was not huge, but neither was it trivial. On oilheads we can buy EV14s complete with adaptors for a similar cost. I did that with my 2004 RT, and along with the AF-XIED there was a substantial improvement in rideability. In particular, there is a huge difference in what happens when I roll off the throttle entering a turn. Previously the bike would decelerate sharply on throttle roll-off, upsetting the balance, resulting in awkward maneuvers at low speed. With the new injectors and fuel management, the bike has smooth throttle response which facilitates smooth cornering. A consequence is that I have more confidence when leaning the bike at low speeds -- which makes it a lot more enjoyable to ride, even if it is just making sharp turns in a parking lot.

Does injector rehab have a kit to change to ev-14 injectors? I'm assuming you need the injectors and adaptors correct? Anyone have specific part numbers for those pieces from Injector Rehab?

Thanks

Interesting. I googled injector rehab and it directed me to a substance abuse facility. How appropriate

Are the EV14s the preferred size for the 1150 ? Do they provide more / better flow or pattern than the stock ?

I know the brain ( ecu/fcu ) is what determines how much fuel to send to the cylinder so the injector cant really give more fuel, so is it an improved spray pattern that makes the difference ?

This takes care of the inlet side, my next question is about the exhaust side which I will post in a different thread. Thanks for all the good advice.

never mind found the kit on their website.

Are the EV14s the preferred size for the 1150 ? They are the only ones I have heard of.

Do they provide more / better flow or pattern than the stock ? Uniform flow as they are flow matched.

I know the brain ( ecu/fcu ) is what determines how much fuel to send to the cylinder so the injector cant really give more fuel. As far as I can tell the amount is negligible. Like I said only 2 miles a gallon different. (Old School calculations) Miles verses gallons used. I have calculated this for at least 10K miles. And when calculating used the same route and speeds.

So is it an improved spray pattern that makes the difference? Most people say no on this or only a very minimal if any affect.

My next question is about the exhaust side. I have not tried anything in this area yet.

Keith at injector rehab would be able to enlighten you on some of the questions. Also Roger 04 rt may chime in and explain better than I. But...…. the bottom line is they work great. The EV14's and an AF-XIED compliment each other. With these 2 additions you will be happy.

Are the EV14s the preferred size for the 1150 ? They are the only ones I have heard of.

 

Do they provide more / better flow or pattern than the stock ? Uniform flow as they are flow matched.

 

I know the brain ( ecu/fcu ) is what determines how much fuel to send to the cylinder so the injector cant really give more fuel. As far as I can tell the amount is negligible. Like I said only 2 miles a gallon different. (Old School calculations) Miles verses gallons used. I have calculated this for at least 10K miles. And when calculating used the same route and speeds.

 

So is it an improved spray pattern that makes the difference? Most people say no on this or only a very minimal if any affect.

 

My next question is about the exhaust side. I have not tried anything in this area yet.

 

Keith at injector rehab would be able to enlighten you on some of the questions. Also Roger 04 rt may chime in and explain better than I. But...…. the bottom line is they work great. The EV14's and an AF-XIED compliment each other. With these 2 additions you will be happy.

 

 

I've just started investigating these changes.....in fact I haven't even ridden my 2000 r1150gs yet (it shows up today) everything I read on several sites says this (along with the AF-XIED tuner) are two of the best improvements to make. Not hard to understand that these bikes because of government regulations are lean from the factory (heck every motorcycle for that matter) a little more fuel will do wonders for performance and smooth running.

Install the AF-XIED first and find the setting you like. The reason to do it first is that it makes the engine less sensitive to injector imbalance. Then if you want try a set of MATCHED injectors (unmatched R1200 injectors won't make a difference) and see if the engine is smoother. I already had an LC-2 (like the AF-XIED) and I noticed the engine was slightly smoother after adding the injectors.

 

 

 

I've just started investigating these changes.....in fact I haven't even ridden my 2000 r1150gs yet (it shows up today) everything I read on several sites says this (along with the AF-XIED tuner) are two of the best improvements to make. Not hard to understand that these bikes because of government regulations are lean from the factory (heck every motorcycle for that matter) a little more fuel will do wonders for performance and smooth running.

Morning Wilks

Just keep in mind that when reading or researching -- that when you see or read about the AF-XIED AND EV14's used together-- that the AF-XIED is 99% of the runability improvement with the EV14's maybe helping very slightly.

Just adding the EV14's (alone) doesn't get you any more fuel, or make them run richer, as the fueling richness is still controlled by the o2 sensor & the fueling computer management system. The AF-XIED is what actually adds more fuel & makes them run richer.

Once the AF-XIED is added (& adjusted correctly) then the injector spray pattern, or injector matching, has little effect as the AF-XIED controlled richer combustion mixture covers up most injector related fueling issues.

+1

The other thing to know about matching is that if you took a box of 1000 clean but unmatched injectors with a +/- 2% spread, about 20% of the pairings would be mismatched enough for you to notice. (If a statistician jumped in here and did the math on this it would be appreciated.)

 

 

 

I've just started investigating these changes.....in fact I haven't even ridden my 2000 r1150gs yet (it shows up today) everything I read on several sites says this (along with the AF-XIED tuner) are two of the best improvements to make. Not hard to understand that these bikes because of government regulations are lean from the factory (heck every motorcycle for that matter) a little more fuel will do wonders for performance and smooth running.

 

 

Morning Wilks

 

Just keep in mind that when reading or researching -- that when you see or read about the AF-XIED AND EV14's used together-- that the AF-XIED is 99% of the runability improvement with the EV14's maybe helping very slightly.

 

Just adding the EV14's (alone) doesn't get you any more fuel, or make them run richer, as the fueling richness is still controlled by the o2 sensor & the fueling computer management system. The AF-XIED is what actually adds more fuel & makes them run richer.

 

Once the AF-XIED is added (& adjusted correctly) then the injector spray pattern, or injector matching, has little effect as the AF-XIED controlled richer combustion mixture covers up most injector related fueling issues.

 

Morning Dirtrider,

Thanks for the clarification on those processes.....I'm new to the whole FI and controller equipment coming from carbs on Harley's and all. In fact I'm not even sure I'll notice any issues at all once the bike shows up hopefully today. History for me dictates that its impossible for me to leave things alone as for as motorcycle performance so anything I can do to improve things is always on the table.

Thanks again.

(If a statistician jumped in here and did the math on this it would be appreciated.)

You rang? :-)

I ran a quick simulation where I had 500 pairs of injectors drawn from a population that showed a +/-~2% maximum variance. My results from this simulation gave:

55.8% of the pairs had a flow difference within +/-0.5%

78.2% of the pairs had a flow difference within +/-1.0%

89.6% of the pairs had a flow difference within +/-1.5%

96.8% of the pairs had a flow difference within +/-2.0%

I'm not sure how big a difference there needs to be to feel a difference. Based on Roger's post above, perhaps greater than 1%?

Best regards!

Jim

Nice work Jim! I think 1% is a good figure. Your simulation suggests that only 1 bike in 5 would benefit if 1% is the limit (I believe it's the matching spec.)

A possible secondary factor is that, for instance, tills.de matches at several rpm/duty cycle points which means the statistics change some.

I installed Af-xied I think last year. Dramatic improvement. Then this year it suddenly seemed like it wasn't working. Milage , surge and pinging went up. Talked to the folks at Nightrider and they said they don't think Af-xied stopped working. I'm sceptical about that. I did change the O2 sensor, but haven't noticed any change. Thinking of seeing if I can send Af-xied in to have them check it's function.

Joe, Connect your DVM to the blue lead on the white connector of the AF-XIED harness while your bike is idling and fully up to temperature. If it's working you will see voltages between 250 and 800 mV.

Do you have a gs-911?

The FYI factor here is RC engineering.

But I DO concur with the expert info.

Noticeable improvement with my boxer units 2, same with the 4 Brick injectors. . I didn't think a smoother engine was possible on the K/brick but alas....it was!

YMMV