current economy, not Political Not media driven

So recently I had a bill I could not seem to pay off. So I looked for a decent temp job. I have a very nice Mon - Fri job that pay me very well. this was an anomaly that caused me to need a short term temp job to pay off this unexpected bill.

so again not making this political nor am I looking for links to media "white papers" I am looking for actual real experiences similar to mine

I stated looking in mid September and had a job by mid October Weekend only 12 hour shift 6am - 6pm pay was 12.50 hr

So I will state based upon recent media stories I expected a tight job market, easy employment and maybe even a little above normal pay.

I got none of that. I worked basically from Oct 1 - Dec 28 and during all the time the company never had any issues getting employees, never had to pay more that 10-12.50 an hour and basically it became apparent in the "blue collar" work force there a LOTS of workers and somewhat limited demand.. Hence the low pay.

I just interviewed with another company and again, pay is 12.50 and hour, work is 10 hour shifts requiring reasonably physical activity. I just happened to connect with the interviewer as he and I had graduated from the same college. At the end of the interview I asked him how the process was going. To be honest for the responsibilities involved in the job and the 10 hour work shift I expected 15.00 - 17.50 an hour pay rate. So I asked him how the process was going and was he finding the candidates he wanted. He said the job market in general is decent, but in reality there are still 10 candidates for every job.

Based upon media reports I was thinking I might be lucky and find a nice job with above average pay. But it seems the opposite. Lots of workers available for all positions and pay is staying right around 10.00 - 12.50 an hour.

My son's company has a lot of turnover, but he has now been there 10 months, and they never have had a situation were they were short staffed. So his company his seeing what I am seeing, 10 candidates for every job.

Now remember this is discussing blue collar entry level jobs. Usually warehouse jobs, delivery jobs and some sort of retail job.

I am guessing most BMW riders fall into professional/some college education/white collar type jobs. But if you are also out looking for a temp job, or maybe a full time blue collar job, are you seeing what I am seeing? i.e plenty of workers and based on supply/demand in general a depression of wages?

Randy....Im a white collar guy with college. I am COO of a high tech company(soon to retire). We have roughly 150,000 people around the globe. We try like heck to pay competitively and let the market dictate that for us. With the generations we see our work force above 40 years very steady. Our work force in their 30's are pretty steady. Our work force from 20 to 30 is very flighty. Therefore we hire a lot of people each year. We seldom get pressed hard for money for the young folks...recent grads...etc, but we get pressed hard for flexibility. They are looking for work at home (which we are ok with) some flex time, extended vacations, and newer people things like cafeterias, open floor seating versus offices and cubes. The 30 to 60+ teams are more about are we making a contribution where the younger ones are more about what are you doing for me.

That is the biggest change. We get more resumes than we could possibly use. I am not sure of the ratio but suspect it is in the range of 10:1. Qualified resumes fall more into the 3:1 range. So in summary...

Wages aren't required generally to be at upper limit

Benefits need to be market

Extras such as flex, food, ete on the rise

No shortage of candidates.

Hope that helps...

I have seen an increase in wages in the Houston area. Which I am sure is different than much of the rest of the country. This area is still booming. Cheapest manual labor is $10. Best not to ask too many questions if that is what you are paying. $12.50-$15 is fast food pay here. Even the day labor you pick up at Home Depot and the other popular areas won't work for much under $15 CASH.

I wonder what UPS and FedEx were paying over the Holidays?

The problem is that $20 and hour isn't really much of a living wage. You cannot buy a home here, even rent an apartment in this area, own a car and raise a family on that. My problem is that $20 doesn't sound too bad to me since I thought $5.68 an hour was good money when I got my first real job.

So, yes, I think there are plenty of workers in the lower wage classes. I see college educated workers earning less than $30,000 year down here. I would help interview for positions at the manufacturing company where I last worked. Top pay was under $20 an hour but there was a good bit of overtime. The owner would complain about the "quality" of what we were hiring. Good bit of turnover. No benefits.

How these people make ends meet I don't know. I do know they don't have health insurance for the most part.

What I find interesting is the lack of walk up job seekers. They all apply online or with an employment service. When I was in mining and construction, a "No Trespassing" or "Not Hiring" sign just meant there was less chance others were in front of me asking for a job! I was told to leave a couple times. But I was told to stay more times! And that is brought up because of what Skywagon posted about the new generation and there expectations about work.

The tight job market of the mid-2000's made the hiring process for a lot of companies very hostile and time-intensive. A friend got laid off and was trying to find another job, and in their field there were multiple layers of consultants, online testing, and expectations that the applicant would have their own user licenses for job-specific software. The flightiness of the job seekers in their 20's and 30's reflects a process that was taught to them by US industries. I've been fortunate to work for the same company for 20-odd years now, and I absolutely dread the thought of having to go find another job and dealing with what seems to be a very consultant-driven hiring process, especially for those folks in their 50's. Another issue is the venture capital model of commerce we've adopted, where no-one really wants to grow a business. Rather, they'd prefer to buy a start-up with the technology or product they need. And the way to have that capital available is to minimize the costs of labor and benefits. Automation allows people to be a fungible asset, and frees up capital for acquisitions and important share-hold values issues like stock buy-backs and higher per-share profits.

so along all these ideas:

1. Yes I was mainly discussing high school graduates. Skywagon I assume even your entry level employees probably have an associates degree. more likely a bachelors. so I see the difference there.

2. Terry it is interesting that your boss complained about the quality of candidates, but it seems a higher salary was not utilized as a possible solution. Maybe even if just tried for a short time? And that is sort of what my post is about. I am hearing numerous companies complain about the quality of worker, yet higher pay never seems to be in the discussion. And Yes I understand location is huge.

3. I too get very frustrated with the on-line hiring process. I have always felt if I can talk to the hiring manager I can usually get the job. but when it just becomes online information running into "AI" robot software, I think lots of companies lose out on good employees. My last two part time jobs were both via in person "Job fairs" I got to sit with the hiring people and I got job offers on the spot.

4. I applied at UPS and FedEx during the holidays. Basically if you were just trying for the drivers helper position it was 10.00 - 11.75 per hour. that was it. so again must be plenty of people willing to work for that pay.

5. Again not even wanting to discuss politics or the media. But back in early September when I made the decision to try this, to be honest based upon the reported unemployment rate and general media coverage, I really thought I would have an easy time getting a decent 15.00-17.50 per hour temp job. And that the job would have a good chance of lasting past December. In general I was way off.

6. I am looking at a job now, and the amount of qualifications needed, physically, mentally and socially, are actually pretty demanding. and again pay is 12.00 an hour. And they seem to have all the candidates they need.

Anyway it was just a commentary on a trial I did for the last 3 months, and my results. Yours may vary :-)

I could add to what I wrote, but that might tend to take this off the intended direction.

I will try to be safe and say the company was extremely profitable. Yet if they could hire for under $15 an hour, that was a way to increase the margin. Simple as that.

Randy....keep up the circulation...we are guilty of the electronic process as well, but as you know employers respect people who do research on their company before they apply. Here is a hint.on some things I've seen work. You should be able to google companies you are interested in and find the head of HR or Recruiting. You should be able to find their street address where they are located work wise. Write them a letter. Make it personal. Tell them what you know about their company, why it is interesting to you, and that you are writing to them personally because you were afraid to get lost in the electronic shuffle. Execs like tenacity. So something like this:

Dear Head of HR...use their name

I am Randy...I've been studying your company (google all you can). I learned this and that. You are the kind of company that matches us with my personal objectives and business points of view....go on a bit. I would like the opportunity to have a phone call with you or one of your direct reports to talk about how I could contribute to the health of your company.... You might also send that to the CFO... They will pass it down most likely, and someone will likely call you.

That's my best advice. Don't worry about the college thing. High school and experience still works for many opportunities...Best of luck

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This is really simple economics. If the company wants to rent you for $12.00, they have determined in this job environment, with a wealth of choices for them, that the job is now worth $12.00. If you want to rent yourself to them for more, it is a choice for both. You are either worth that to them or you are not, it works both ways. Their profit margins have very little to do with the offering. It is market driven. If you feel there are opportunities at that company and you can work your way through to a better paying position, it may be worthwhile to rent yourself for that amount until you can prove the value of a higher rental price. Degrees will not matter after a few months on the job, the cream will rise to the top. I have clients who are struggling with the quality of the hire, it has nothing to do with the wage, it may be generational. Even the grand experiment to hire at a higher wage produced no difference in the quality for that position. Some companies here are hiring on the spot, no drug tests, just show up, fill out an app and you get hired for $12.00. It is a very different world then when loyalty for employers and employees was the norm. Good luck with the grand experiment.

Pat, that was sort of my question/experience. IF the job market is so tight, and IF unemployment is around 4% it would seem supply and demand would be pushing up the wages. I did some research and even the "experts" are saying this is unusual. i.e. they would be expecting wage pressure, but we are not seeing it. some of their comments made sense

1. after that last recession workers are less likely to move for a pay increase. there is far more "a bird in hand is worth more than two in a bush" so if you are making 12.00 and find a 14.00 job, it seems workers are less likely to move, and therefore put pressure on the 12.00 position. prior to 2007 workers moved a lot more than it seems they are now.

2. companies are not upping wages for fear that a downturn will occur again, and they will have a workforce that will not fit the new economy. So after the recession companies are less likely to "increase fixed payroll" for fear that when a downturn occurs, even a small one, they will have a work force at a wage price that is not competitive in the new environment.

3. after the last recession many companies have moved to temp agency employees. And culturally in America "temp agency employees" are valued less than company employees. So employees do not go into a temp agency with the same confidence as they do a company, and are much less likely to demand wage increases when working as a temp agency employee.

4. This is my personal idea, I think maybe the unemployment index (currently 4%) is less informative than it might have been 20 years ago. I think maybe we have a 1% unemployement rate for white collar jobs, and say a 15% unemployment for blue collar jobs. hence why there is no wage pressure on the 10.00 - 12.00 jobs. but that is just my opinion based on NO facts.

All good points. If the companies can fill jobs at $12.00, for example, there is now wage pressure. The job is only always worth "X" it is not the person it is the task that they are renting the employee to perform. If the pool is full of people who might have been left out if the qualifications needed were higher are now flooding the lower end of the wage market, the employer has choices as does the potential employee. In many cases if the market was different they wouldn't stand a chance of getting hired because of maybe they have a minor record or failing a drug test or a lack of education{overrated for most jobs} etc. Now they are all coming back to the market, the number of people who had given up or retirees who actually need some income and don't care what they make as long as it supplements their SS are willing to rent themselves out at entry level positions. Employees are also just happy to get back to work, so they are less inclined to move or have no reason to move. The Temp agency employee took all the loyalty calculations out of the equation, terminating became easier, hiring easier and benefits were easier to administer, if they exist at all. Bonuses became a better alternative for good employees as it lowered the future inflation increases. It is all a different market.

I think I see the "cannon fodder" approach here all too often. Especially in business's where interaction with customers is the jobs role.

I would rather see a customer have to wait until a really good sales person, or technician, waiter, or whatever is available before I let an employee loose on them that cannot perform the job to a standard the business operates at. Customers will come back if you are just too busy. Customers tend to find other places to go if you are rude, unqualified, unable to serve your position. I think paying better than your competition to get and keep really good employees can actually be cheaper. Business grows, profits along with it.

There just isn't much in the way of jobs "in the middle" any longer. Sure, there are the white collar/college education positions in companies. There will always be manual labor, or jobs in the growing service industry. Too many in these positions actually have college. Which makes me wonder if everyone needs college.....The coal mining, steel mill, manufacturing jobs are not here now. That is the blue collar type of work that really kept the American Dream alive. While there are jobs and they may in fact be growing, look at the percentage of jobs comparing the population of the US. Compare 1970 to 2015. These decent paying jobs are a small percentage of the work force, much lower now. That income level is missed. And the lack of these jobs just adds those workers to the pool for the $12 jobs.....

Blue collar job openings in 'the trades' are plentiful in the west. Hundreds of roofing, framing, gen carpentry, drywall, plumber/ electrician apprentice, painter go unfilled. I think the youth today have been so brain washed that college is the way to go that few consider the trades. I had a roof put on two years ago. The contractor who is easy to work for couldn't keep a helper over two days. My town is 3 to 4,000 pop. We have 1 plumber.

CDL truckers is another job opportunity with many openings.

I believe some of the trouble with lack of viable candidates for jobs is drug testing and increasing legalization of marijuana for medical and recreation. Many jobs require a piss test. Legal or not, the more folks use for medical and rec reasons, the more they will discover opportunities closed to them.

Finally, except for family farms, current child safety and labor law prevent young people from getting work experience. When you turn 18 you are all of a sudden supposed to have all the skills employers need to hit the ground running.

I think the CDL truck driving industry is a good subject to see what is going on with labor. After posting in this thread earlier I done a little reading out of curiosity. Truck drivers in the 1970's averaged $92,000 per year in 2018 dollars. 2018 truck drivers are averaging $42,000 overall. Making less than half what they used to. That, based on relatives and a couple guys I know that have been in the industry, is a fair estimate of the difference.

Truck driving jobs are plentiful. But those just out of schools are promised way more than they get. Truck drivers are not subject to the same labor laws as others are. Turnover rate will astound you!

There is one glaring difference. In the 1970's most truck drivers were Teamsters members. Now there are almost no Union truck drivers.

A view from S. Illinois. We moved here in 1974. At that time, the HS had a rigorous vocational ed program. Kids not on a college track could, upon successful completion of the program, get a well paying entry level job in the skilled trades.

Today that program is non-existent. Now the HS is geared only toward higher education.

Hard to find skilled trade workers.

Now it looks like there are going to be so many old pharts my age, a shortage of medical professional workers looms as a large problem in our society.

Even higher education is no guarantee. My nephew got a degree in Japanese and wants to do translation for the video game industry. He finds that all the "entry-level" jobs require three years of experience!

Blue collar job openings in 'the trades' are plentiful in the west. Hundreds of roofing, framing, gen carpentry, drywall, plumber/ electrician apprentice, painter go unfilled. I think the youth today have been so brain washed that college is the way to go that few consider the trades. I had a roof put on two years ago. The contractor who is easy to work for couldn't keep a helper over two days. My town is 3 to 4,000 pop. We have 1 plumber.

CDL truckers is another job opportunity with many openings.

I believe some of the trouble with lack of viable candidates for jobs is drug testing and increasing legalization of marijuana for medical and recreation. Many jobs require a piss test. Legal or not, the more folks use for medical and rec reasons, the more they will discover opportunities closed to them.

Finally, except for family farms, current child safety and labor law prevent young people from getting work experience. When you turn 18 you are all of a sudden supposed to have all the skills employers need to hit the ground running.

I think a lot of young people's view of the world was formed by the '07-'08 crash. All the trade jobs went away when housing stopped, and you had master tradesmen doing minimum wage jobs (if they were working at all). I think a lot of younger folks are very gun shy about taking on a job that they see as cyclical. I do agree that we're not providing those opportunities in high school, the same way the arts have been cut in favor of academics and sports.

I think a lot of young people's view of the world was formed by the '07-'08 crash. All the trade jobs went away when housing stopped, and you had master tradesmen doing minimum wage jobs (if they were working at all). I think a lot of younger folks are very gun shy about taking on a job that they see as cyclical. I do agree that we're not providing those opportunities in high school, the same way the arts have been cut in favor of academics and sports.

I think most young people now view ALL jobs as cyclical. Have you heard of the "gig economy"? Lots aren't able to find full-time jobs and are working a gig here and a gig there.

I think a lot of young people's view of the world was formed by the '07-'08 crash. All the trade jobs went away when housing stopped, and you had master tradesmen doing minimum wage jobs (if they were working at all). I think a lot of younger folks are very gun shy about taking on a job that they see as cyclical. I do agree that we're not providing those opportunities in high school, the same way the arts have been cut in favor of academics and sports.

 

I think most young people now view ALL jobs as cyclical. Have you heard of the "gig economy"? Lots aren't able to find full-time jobs and are working a gig here and a gig there.

And that's probably why benefits and add-ons are more important to them than wages - they see the wage as being non-negotiable, while the ping-pong tables and Tai Chi classes are.

Everybody knows how much money comes in every day; what the expenses are; the profit level; what everybody else earns. We keep no secrets (except for personal info no company shares).

Three things for any employee to do:

1.) Never make your boss look bad

2.) Always be aware of your value add

3.) Get an interview every year.

Thanks for showing how #2 works.

We start every meeting...

We hold meetings so the slow people can catch up!