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R 1200RT clutch job bits & pieces


dduelin

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I bought Bernie's '07 1200RT and am beginning a clutch replacement on it. I'm an experienced DIY wrench after working on my own cars, boats, bikes for 45 years. My garage has a ceiling lift and the usual array of tools but no special BMW tools save a couple of things left from my airhead days. I owned an R100 for 6 years and did a clutch on that bike and a transmission replacement. I know this RT is much more complicated but I'm confident in my ability and I have patience to stop and ask questions when I run into a hang up or problem. I learned importance of the latter because I used to not have it.

 

I've been studying the Haynes manual plus the online resources of threads and videos and plan to get on this weekend. From those that have done this job, what is the minimum of parts and systems that have to be removed to access the clutch and the main and balancer shaft seals? I'll rely on and follow the Haynes but I have learned on other vehicles that sometime there is are legitimate short cuts or tips that experienced folks use that aren't in the manuals. The clutch job videos for instance show throttle bodies on and off, driveshafts remaining connected to transmissions or removed with the swing arm, subframe swung up our of the way or removed. Some are GSs and some are RTs, 1150s & 1200s, and models might be the difference.

 

Thanks in advance! I'm sure I'll be back soon.

Edited by dduelin
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As I look for a used RT, was wondering how many miles on this one and the reason for the clutch replacement. And will follow this thread with interest just in case...

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If the rear main is to be replaced, we had a rolling A frame used to raise the rear subframe . Rafters and quality straps can do the same task.

That was the only seal we ever replaced and only of it showed traces of leakage.

 

Some of the tech's worked from the left side and never fully separated the two halves of the bike.

They would remove fasteners and position the bike in a "V" with the open end of the V being the left as mentioned.

Then using quality 1/4" drive tools and 3/8" adapters such as Snap-On, removing the clutch bolts one at a time, then rotating the presure plate around so they could slide the clutch out the open of the V.

If the rear main was dry, they would insert the new parts .

This shaved a couple off the book time and helped the customer as well.

Replace any clutch fasteners as the book says and account for your old ones before you button it up.

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I have done a dozen+ clutches on the 1100/1150, I and finishing up on my first 1200 clutch now. It has been a total PITA from the start, of course is this an RTP so a significant issue of frustration was working around all the additional wiring that goes into the rear end of the bike. On the 1200 the rear subframe actually splits and gets removed from the bike unlike the 1100/1150 platform where the subframe folds up but stays attached. I used an engine hoist to lift and move the rear section of the bike, the wheel stays on and so does the center stand so its pretty easy to maneuver around and will stand by itself once removed. I did run into a couple hiccups when I found I didn't have the proper tools that had previously not been required on the early BMWs.

 

Besides just the standard tools that are common for most BMWs I had to get:

*CV Boot pliers to remove the throttle bodies ($12 on amazon, much easier to have the actual tool so you wont need to purchase new clamps when you ruin them with a flathead and needle nose pliers. http://tinyurl.com/ycwxkd8z )

*Motorcycle scissor lift ($51 from amazon, made it a lot easier to support the engine after the rear section was removed http://tinyurl.com/y9se25sh

*T55 Torx bit - the lower frame bolt uses a larger bolt than the previous bikes http://tinyurl.com/yczloec2

 

everything else was pretty standard stuff, clutch alignment tool, flywheel lock etc. I had a list from the service manual on the parts that need to get disconnected, I will see if I can post it up later.

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As I look for a used RT, was wondering how many miles on this one and the reason for the clutch replacement. And will follow this thread with interest just in case...

 

Nearly 190k

 

When my tranny starting going out (a rare thing) at 70k, while the bike was split, I had the techs replace the clutch at that time. I should now be good (currently at 105k) for quite some time.

 

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KER is right on with the tools needed

 

I just finished replacing mine on my 07

It's a long process but even I who's not a mechanic was able to do it.

 

I followed the procedure in the BMW RSD Manual (used to be called the RepROM)

 

One thing was not mentioned in it.: You have to remove the Cable box in order to separate the frame.

You also need two grub screw to replace some of the frame screws while the bike is separated

 

rear_frame_screws.jpg

 

You will need a lot of tie wraps when you reassemble the bike

You will also need the tie-wrap for the front rubber boot

It's a special size tie-wrap Part # 33 17 7 687 623

 

Be very careful with the drive shaft when you split the bike.

My drive shaft slipped off the FD spline when I separated the bike.

I had to remove the swing arm and the rear strut to reinstall it.

 

You will need to do a Throttle body sync after putting everything back together.

 

Clutch.jpg

 

Hope this helps

Edited by Dann
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I bought Bernie's '07 1200RT and am beginning a clutch replacement on it. I'm an experienced DIY wrench after working on my own cars, boats, bikes for 45 years. My garage has a ceiling lift and the usual array of tools but no special BMW tools save a couple of things left from my airhead days. I owned an R100 for 6 years and did a clutch on that bike and a transmission replacement. I know this RT is much more complicated but I'm confident in my ability and I have patience to stop and ask questions when I run into a hang up or problem. I learned importance of the latter because I used to not have it.

 

I've been studying the Haynes manual plus the online resources of threads and videos and plan to get on this weekend. From those that have done this job, what is the minimum of parts and systems that have to be removed to access the clutch and the main and balancer shaft seals? I'll rely on and follow the Haynes but I have learned on other vehicles that sometime there is are legitimate short cuts or tips that experienced folks use that aren't in the manuals. The clutch job videos for instance show throttle bodies on and off, driveshafts remaining connected to transmissions or removed with the swing arm, subframe swung up our of the way or removed. Some are GSs and some are RTs, 1150s & 1200s, and models might be the difference.

 

Thanks in advance! I'm sure I'll be back soon.

 

Evening dduelin

 

There are a few shortcuts but as a rule in the long run they end up costing you more time or future problems.

 

Like on the drive shaft/swing-arm/final drive. You CAN leave those attached to the transmission & remove the entire assembly as a unit. I don't suggest that on an older 1200RT with the pre-updated drive shaft.

 

There have a been a number drive shaft failures on the early & mid year 1200RT's so NOW is the best time to inspect the drive shaft. The drive shaft on the 1200RT won't come out the rear so the swing arm has to be unbolted from the trans to slide it out the front of the swing arm (do you really want to do that after it is all assembled & back on the road?)

 

To get to the rear balancer shaft seal (kind of a pain to get out) you need LOTS of working space & a good rear view of the engine (those were also known for seeping on the earlier & mid year 1200RT's (no way would I put a clutch in an older 1200RT without also replacing the rear balance shaft seal).

 

If you are trying to cheat the flat rate system that is one thing but to cheat on proper repair procedures on your own motorcycle is not always the prudent thing to do.

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks all who replied. After a few hours work today I'm to the point of removing the subframe and pretty much decided to leave the swing arm in the sub frame and decouple the driveshaft from the FD. After I slide the subframe/swing arm assembly aft and off leaving the driveshaft connected to the transmission it would seem easier to then remove the driveshaft from the output shaft and inspect it. Or in my inexperience am I making a mistake thinking this?

 

Also I'd rather not break open the rear brake lines at the modulator which the Haynes indicates. Is it possible to remove the connection fitting found above the swing arm axis and secure the metal lines to the rear master cylinder out of the way of the rear subframe removal? The rear caliper and hose could stay with the front half.

Edited by dduelin
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Hi Dave

 

When I did mine, I disconnected the rear brake line at the modulator as per instruction in the BMW repair manual with no issue.

I think that it will be more work to leave the rear caliper and hose attached to the front due to the way the the line is routed.

You have to do a rear brake bleed after you reassemble the bike of course.

 

As for the drive shaft. I don't suggest disconnecting from the FD spline.

You will not be able to reconnect the frame if the drive shaft is not properly connected to the rear spline, (The shaft will block the sub frame from moving forward because there will not be enough room for it at the other end)

It will be extremely hard to engage it on the rear spline while trying to put the sub frame back together at the same time. (I could not do it.)

 

 

Like I mentioned earlier, I ended up reassembling the sub frame without the drive shaft and had to remove the swing arm later in order to reinstall it.

You can't open the FD to get the shaft through when reassembling because you need the rear wheel to support the rear frame while moving it.

 

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OK thanks on both items. I'll remove the swing arm from the frame with the DS prior to removing the rear frame, no short cuts.

 

The Haynes cautions that breaking into the ABS brake system requires a dealer service to the brakes after doing so. Poking around in here with the search engine early this morning indicates that isn't the case that as long as I follow posted instructions I'll be able to bleed the rear caliper myself and not have an ABS error DTC.

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Sorry for not replying or adding information to this thread earlier, I have been and still are involved in large family reunion, as I had told you Dave.

The bike has all of it's required services, either done by me personally or by BMW dealers, from mile # 2.

Also to work on this ABS brake system, the dealer computer is not required for hydraulic work.

The posts I read, indicate that you should be able to leave the complete brake system intact.

Yes, you have to remove the swing arm, before removing the drive shaft (replaced around 126,00 miles).

Remove body work and seats, remove muffler and rear wheel. Remove front of rear wheel fender.

Remove rear shock, remove foot peg mounting plates. Disconnect rear master cylinder, before removing right side plate completely, so you don't kink the brake lines.

Remove rear wheel ABS sensor (if you spill rear drive oil, you may want to empty and refill it with fresh oil after reassemble. Unbolt rear wheel brake caliper. Drop down rear drive to separate it from the rear spline of the drive shaft.

Removing the pivot pins for the swing arm is next. Then you can separate and remove the drive shaft from the transmission.

There is a internal spring ring inside the front u-joint link, that holds it on to the transmission output shaft.

That is as far as I have been, but I guess the battery would be next and then it is time to separate the rear frame and the transmission.

But maybe someone who has actually done this job can jump in with some more information.

I can borrow you the BMW Repair DVD and I also have the large metric Allen wrench for the left side swing arm pivot pin, if you need it.

 

Swingarm-Drive shaft pictures

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I used my GS-911 to bleed the rear brakes and flush the air out of the rear caliper.

 

You want to keep the rear of the bike intact to split it in two.

Otherwise you have nothing to support the rear part of the bike.

 

P_20170914_163920.jpg

 

The swing arm will need to be removed after you reconnect the sub frame only if you pulled the drive shaft off the rear spline while separating the sub frame.

 

The front u-joint can be unclipped and clipped without removing the swing arm

 

Pressing_drive_shaft_off_gearbox_output_shaft.jpg

 

 

Pressing_drive_shaft_on_to_gearbox_output_shaft.jpg

 

Also, removing the second screw of the clutch slave cylinder was a pita. I had to use a u-joint adapter to remove it

 

P_20170827_170220_LL.jpg

 

 

Edited by Dann
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I ended up following the Haynes manual. I have a ratcheting lift from a ceiling rafter and it supported the rear frame w/o swing arm or rear wheel.

 

Both the main seal and balancer shaft seal were leaking and the friction disk was contaminated and glazed. After 189,000 miles it was at the minimum thickness 4.4 mm.

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With the noise it was making, a metallic squeal or scraping in the gearbox/clutch area in the last 1/3rd of clutch take-up, I thought the clutch disk and driven plate would look worse than it does but I've only had one dry clutch failure and that was the splines letting go. That was my R100.

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I ended up following the Haynes manual. I have a ratcheting lift from a ceiling rafter and it supported the rear frame w/o swing arm or rear wheel.

 

Both the main seal and balancer shaft seal were leaking and the friction disk was contaminated and glazed. After 189,000 miles it was at the minimum thickness 4.4 mm.

 

BTW Which Haynes manual do you have?

Even though I have the BMW RSD, I'm looking for one to supplement it.

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I ended up following the Haynes manual. I have a ratcheting lift from a ceiling rafter and it supported the rear frame w/o swing arm or rear wheel.

 

Both the main seal and balancer shaft seal were leaking and the friction disk was contaminated and glazed. After 189,000 miles it was at the minimum thickness 4.4 mm.

 

BTW Which Haynes manual do you have?

Even though I have the BMW RSD, I'm looking for one to supplement it.

There is a 2004 to 2006 printing and a 2004 to 2009 printing.

 

https://www.amazon.com/BMW-R1200-Twins-Haynes-Service/dp/1844258017

 

Edited by dduelin
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I had my clutch replaced two and a half years ago (112k). I decided it was worth it to pay the dealer to do it for me. One of the finest decisions I ever made. I had them replace all all of the parts (except the fly wheel) and I provided the oil-resistant clutch from Beemerboneyard.com. If you're near a decent dealer and have the loot, let them do it.

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I had my clutch replaced two and a half years ago (112k). I decided it was worth it to pay the dealer to do it for me. One of the finest decisions I ever made. I had them replace all all of the parts (except the fly wheel) and I provided the oil-resistant clutch from Beemerboneyard.com. If you're near a decent dealer and have the loot, let them do it.

 

Total opposite for me.;)

 

I'm glad I did it myself. I now have a better knowledge of how my bike is put together and saved $2k

 

YMMV

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Well, the worm turns. The condition of the clutch pack, while worn, did not look like it should be making the noise it made before being taken apart. I turned my attention to the gearbox and found the input shaft bearing worn and allowing about 1.5 mm of play all around. This probably allowed the shaft and friction disk to wobble inside the housing cover and take the push rod with it. Inspection of the push rod and showed surface polishing from the beating it took against the pressure plate and inside bore of the input shaft. The input shaft from BMW is $700 and the bearings another $100. I guess I'm in the hunt for a used transmission if the fix involves a new input shaft.

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I had my clutch replaced two and a half years ago (112k). I decided it was worth it to pay the dealer to do it for me. One of the finest decisions I ever made. I had them replace all all of the parts (except the fly wheel) and I provided the oil-resistant clutch from Beemerboneyard.com. If you're near a decent dealer and have the loot, let them do it.

 

Total opposite for me.;)

 

I'm glad I did it myself. I now have a better knowledge of how my bike is put together and saved $2k

 

YMMV

Yes, same here. I always do my own work if possible to save money and learn how things work plus at this point it would hard to put the front half of the bike and all the back end parts in the car and take it to a dealer. Some things are outside of my ability of course but this wasn't - at least when I started the job.

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Well, the worm turns. The condition of the clutch pack, while worn, did not look like it should be making the noise it made before being taken apart. I turned my attention to the gearbox and found the input shaft bearing worn and allowing about 1.5 mm of play all around. This probably allowed the shaft and friction disk to wobble inside the housing cover and take the push rod with it. Inspection of the push rod and showed surface polishing from the beating it took against the pressure plate and inside bore of the input shaft. The input shaft from BMW is $700 and the bearings another $100. I guess I'm in the hunt for a used transmission if the fix involves a new input shaft.

 

Morning dduelin

 

Check your engine rear main bearing to crankshaft for a excessive crankshaft lateral movement within the main bearing. (move rear of crankshaft back & forth from side to side).

 

A worn & sloppy rear main bearing can take the front trans input shaft bearing out.

 

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Well, the worm turns. The condition of the clutch pack, while worn, did not look like it should be making the noise it made before being taken apart. I turned my attention to the gearbox and found the input shaft bearing worn and allowing about 1.5 mm of play all around. This probably allowed the shaft and friction disk to wobble inside the housing cover and take the push rod with it. Inspection of the push rod and showed surface polishing from the beating it took against the pressure plate and inside bore of the input shaft. The input shaft from BMW is $700 and the bearings another $100. I guess I'm in the hunt for a used transmission if the fix involves a new input shaft.

 

Morning dduelin

 

Check your engine rear main bearing to crankshaft for a excessive crankshaft lateral movement within the main bearing. (move rear of crankshaft back & forth from side to side).

 

A worn & sloppy rear main bearing can take the front trans input shaft bearing out.

Morning to you as well. I can detect no lateral or longitudinal movement of the crankshaft.

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Is there any difference or desirability of gearboxes by year of production run '04 to '09? For fleaBay purposes?

 

I bought a used tranny from rubbersideup. Good prices there.

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I had my clutch replaced two and a half years ago (112k). I decided it was worth it to pay the dealer to do it for me. One of the finest decisions I ever made. I had them replace all all of the parts (except the fly wheel) and I provided the oil-resistant clutch from Beemerboneyard.com. If you're near a decent dealer and have the loot, let them do it.

 

Total opposite for me.;)

 

I'm glad I did it myself. I now have a better knowledge of how my bike is put together and saved $2k

 

YMMV

 

I don't need to have a better knowledge of how my bike is put together and besides that, my hourly rate of frustration far exceeds the $2k expense ;) There's a sign in my garage that reads "Caution: Tool throwing area".

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I had my clutch replaced two and a half years ago (112k). I decided it was worth it to pay the dealer to do it for me. One of the finest decisions I ever made. I had them replace all all of the parts (except the fly wheel) and I provided the oil-resistant clutch from Beemerboneyard.com. If you're near a decent dealer and have the loot, let them do it.

 

Total opposite for me.;)

 

I'm glad I did it myself. I now have a better knowledge of how my bike is put together and saved $2k

 

YMMV

 

I don't need to have a better knowledge of how my bike is put together and besides that, my hourly rate of frustration far exceeds the $2k expense ;) There's a sign in my garage that reads "Caution: Tool throwing area".

 

 

I had a clutch replaced a couple of months ago by a a VERY reputable dealer for various reasons (away from home, figured they would do a faster/better job than I, etc.). The price wasn't really that bad considering the cost I would have had in parts, but given the choice again I'd do it myself. Took two return trips and re-removal of the drivetrain from tranny back to put things -almost- right.

Edited by szurszewski
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I had my clutch replaced two and a half years ago (112k). I decided it was worth it to pay the dealer to do it for me. One of the finest decisions I ever made. I had them replace all all of the parts (except the fly wheel) and I provided the oil-resistant clutch from Beemerboneyard.com. If you're near a decent dealer and have the loot, let them do it.

 

Total opposite for me.;)

 

I'm glad I did it myself. I now have a better knowledge of how my bike is put together and saved $2k

 

YMMV

 

I don't need to have a better knowledge of how my bike is put together and besides that, my hourly rate of frustration far exceeds the $2k expense ;) There's a sign in my garage that reads "Caution: Tool throwing area".

It pays well to know thyself.

 

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Is there any difference or desirability of gearboxes by year of production run '04 to '09? For fleaBay purposes?

 

 

Morning dduelin

 

Yes, some differences, gear ratios, color, maybe output shaft from 08 up (have to check this to be sure).

 

Personally I haven't put a used trans in a 1200RT yet but if I did I would probably stay with an RT trans & the use a pre 08 trans on pre 08 bike & use an 08-09 trans in an 08-09 RT bike.

 

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Is there any difference or desirability of gearboxes by year of production run '04 to '09? For fleaBay purposes?

 

 

Morning dduelin

 

Yes, some differences, gear ratios, color, maybe output shaft from 08 up (have to check this to be sure).

 

Personally I haven't put a used trans in a 1200RT yet but if I did I would probably stay with an RT trans & the use a pre 08 trans on pre 08 bike & use an 08-09 trans in an 08-09 RT bike.

 

Gotta watch the driveshafts as well. While the BMW parts fiche will say the used tranny will fit xx years, they don't point out that the driveshafts are slightly different.

 

When I had my tranny replaced (long story), I got a used tranny, emailed BMW to see if it would fit (no real help), emailed a couple of other dealerships besides the one doing the work.

 

All the dealerships stated, yes, the tranny will fit.....so, the tranny got put in,....but, the driveshaft diameter, or something, was off. I can't remember if it was a diameter or length thing. Either way, at 75k, I dropped an 18k tranny and 50k driveshaft in my bike,....that after a tranny rebuild that only lasted a bit over a year, which was completely out of the independent shops warranty.

 

The used tranny was right at $600, the driveshaft I believe was $200ish and the labor was $1300-1500(can't really remember),......shoulda just replaced the tranny from the get go.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I finished the bike up today and went for a 40 mile ride to check it out. The clutch and transmission are quiet again and the bike seems to be running great.

 

IMG_2073_zpsfhujp5ss.jpg

 

 

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I used the regular aftermarket disc sold by Beemer Boneyard. The pressure plate and housing were in good condition and I reinstalled them after dressing the surfaces.

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