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#1000465 - 11/07/17 11:50 PM 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles  
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oilhead1100s1150rt Offline
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Good Day, I have lost a second ABS pump in 4K miles, over 6 years. Dealer wants 3500 to replace. Is it difficult to just get rid of ABS all together? I am told I will not pass PA inspection without ABS as the bike was built with iABS. Very disappointed and struggling with my next step. ABS lights read low level in ABS unit. Dealer says fault readout points to bad pump.

Thoughts? Anyone else have failures this close together?

Thanks...

Last edited by oilhead1100s1150rt; 11/08/17 12:02 AM.
#1000466 - 11/08/17 12:11 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
Good Day, I have lost a second ABS pump in 4K miles, over 6 years. Dealer wants 3500 to replace. Is it difficult to just get rid of ABS all together? I am told I will not pass PA inspection without ABS as the bike was built with iABS. Very disappointed and struggling with my next step. ABS lights read low level in ABS unit. Dealer says fault readout points to bad pump.

Thoughts? Anyone else have failures this close together?

Thanks...


Evening oilhead1100s1150rt

Well, you can remove the ABS system but you will probably lose your speedometer unless you can find a way to retain the current ABS electronics & mask the failure light & relay. (it can be done just not easily).

As far as passing the state test without an active ABS system-- that depends on IF they know that you removed the ABS system, or IF they actually run a rolling road ABS operational test.

They did build the 1100s without an ABS system so unless they look at the vehicle factory build sheet or are a very knowledgeable in BMW motorcycle equipment & model build equipment I doubt they will know that it came with factory ABS.


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#1000467 - 11/08/17 12:18 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: dirtrider]  
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Thanks DR, does not sound like a good idea and may cause additional issues once removed. There most be a rebuild shop or refurbished outlet some place. There have been many of these failures on iABS. I have searched, but will need to dig even deeper. $3500 a few years ago for my first replacement, now additional $3500, is getting to be too much. My biggest worry is in a few more years, I get ti again. Bike runs very well motor/tranny wise.

#1000468 - 11/08/17 12:24 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
Thanks DR, does not sound like a good idea and may cause additional issues once removed. There most be a rebuild shop or refurbished outlet some place. There have been many of these failures on iABS. I have searched, but will need to dig even deeper. $3500 a few years ago for my first replacement, now additional $3500, is getting to be too much. My biggest worry is in a few more years, I get ti again. Bike runs very well motor/tranny wise.




Evening oilhead1100s1150rt

Probably the smart move is to POSITIVLY identify the failure then access it's repair potential.

If you can identify the failure you can then call Module Masters & see if they can repair that type I-ABS failure.

Do your servo pumps work or are they dead?


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#1000470 - 11/08/17 12:57 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: dirtrider]  
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DR, the pumps seem to work at this point. They do have an audible, and stopping power appears to be fine. Just the flashing lights saying low fluid. I did call Module Masters, they told me they would have a pump available around Jan 2018 for the iABS module. I understand through various searches, that they have had several delays in their release time for this module. I am thinking it might be worth the wait at this point, they quoted me around $800 - $900 which is 1/3 the price of a new one from BMW. I also have an ABS failure on my 2002 r1150rt. The lights on that bike (same iABS unit) read one circuit in residual mode. This bike slowly did fail. Braking slowly quite and eventually there is just residual mode now. Tech told me that the pump would come on when the key was turned in the ignition. Again, dealership is saying bad pump. So two bikes, two complete pump failures. I am thinking I should be able to get the readouts from the dealership??

Last edited by oilhead1100s1150rt; 11/08/17 01:16 AM.
#1000514 - 11/08/17 11:29 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
DR, the pumps seem to work at this point. They do have an audible, and stopping power appears to be fine. Just the flashing lights saying low fluid. I did call Module Masters, they told me they would have a pump available around Jan 2018 for the iABS module. I understand through various searches, that they have had several delays in their release time for this module. I am thinking it might be worth the wait at this point, they quoted me around $800 - $900 which is 1/3 the price of a new one from BMW. I also have an ABS failure on my 2002 r1150rt. The lights on that bike (same iABS unit) read one circuit in residual mode. This bike slowly did fail. Braking slowly quite and eventually there is just residual mode now. Tech told me that the pump would come on when the key was turned in the ignition. Again, dealership is saying bad pump. So two bikes, two complete pump failures. I am thinking I should be able to get the readouts from the dealership??


Morning oilhead1100s1150rt

Yes, try to get the failure code read out if possible (that can make the troubleshooting much easier).

Please keep your failure condition to JUST this bike as quoting 2 different bike failures will make it so much more difficult to keep track of what system is doing what.

With your pumps appearing to work that usually says the internal pressure sensors are working (the difficult thing for Module Masters to repair).

So lets get back to this bike -- tell us again EXACTLY what this bike's brakes are doing, when they are doing it, what the dash lights are doing, ANYTHING else for THIS BIKE.

If both pumps are working then it might be something simple that can be repaired at home.


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#1000566 - 11/09/17 03:22 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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2003 r1100sa - Lights read out = low fluid in abs module - per various online service manuals, and shop manual. Brakes feel like they are working individually, front and back both have firm stopping power, with normal pressure applied, from what I can tell. Will be picking up bike early next week, get fault codes, and will re-engage this post then. Will post a separate thread for secondary bike, good point DR, thanks. Stand-bye...

#1000567 - 11/09/17 03:24 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Sorry guys, if you read all the various BMW Oilhead forums, not just this one, you'd know that iABS removal is not at all difficult to do and many, many riders all over the world have done it, most reporting greatly improved braking performance, once the 13kg lump has been ditched.

It was a stoopid idea in the first place by BMW to have linked ABS with a servo whine annoying you every time you touch the lever or pedal and the firm moved on from it in pretty short measure.

However, there's no denying that a 2-wheeler equipped with an efficient modern ABS system, as for example in Honda bikes, is a much safer vehicle to crash-stop than a bike without ABS.

Nichtsdestoweniger, as Frau Quandt would say, the iABS is a pesky fault-prone system and is impossibly expensive to replace on a ten-year-old vehicle. It just doesn't make sense, despite the sterling efforts at refurbishment by firms like RHelektronik.de in the Fatherland, who service, repair and even replace these pesky FHF units every day of the year.

Just go on the web, look for ABS-ectomy or something, and follow the lead of the various videos. Just don't be tempted to cut any wires, as the excellent Chris Harris first did and found he then had no speedo nor brake lights. He was obliged to upload a short correction sequence.

But as I say, rest assured folks, it CAN be done without too much hassle. Even the esteemed MW in Meltham Bridge, Yokkshurr, Blighty, sell the various linking pipe / union bits to bypass the entire gold-durned system.
As for the annual tech-test roadworthiness check, worry not. They just test how good the bike is at stopping. They don't look at the factory-amalgamation data, whichever country you're in, do they ?
ALAN in s.e. Spain


This is a list of the people I'd trust with my bike
#1000568 - 11/09/17 03:31 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: Alan Sykes]  
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Originally Posted by Alan Sykes
Sorry guys, if you read all the various BMW Oilhead forums, not just this one, you'd know that iABS removal is not at all difficult to do and many, many riders all over the world have done it, most reporting greatly improved braking performance, once the 13kg lump has been ditched.

It was a stoopid idea in the first place by BMW to have linked ABS with a servo whine annoying you every time you touch the lever or pedal and the firm moved on from it in pretty short measure.

However, there's no denying that a 2-wheeler equipped with an efficient modern ABS system, as for example in Honda bikes, is a much safer vehicle to crash-stop than a bike without ABS.

Nichtsdestoweniger, as Frau Quandt would say, the iABS is a pesky fault-prone system and is impossibly expensive to replace on a ten-year-old vehicle. It just doesn't make sense, despite the sterling efforts at refurbishment by firms like RHelektronik.de in the Fatherland, who service, repair and even replace these pesky FHF units every day of the year.

Just go on the web, look for ABS-ectomy or something, and follow the lead of the various videos. Just don't be tempted to cut any wires, as the excellent Chris Harris first did and found he then had no speedo nor brake lights. He was obliged to upload a short correction sequence.

But as I say, rest assured folks, it CAN be done without too much hassle . Even the esteemed MW in Meltham Bridge, Yokkshurr, Blighty, sell the various linking pipe / union bits to bypass the entire gold-durned system.
As for the annual tech-test roadworthiness check, worry not. They just test how good the bike is at stopping. They don't look at the factory-amalgamation data, whichever country you're in, do they ?
ALAN in s.e. Spain


Morning Alan

So how do you get a working speedometer without much hassle?


D.R. ___
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#1000580 - 11/09/17 08:21 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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FYI.... Module Masters just told me "check back in a few months".....they are testing the final component .......iABS.

#1000581 - 11/09/17 08:28 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
FYI.... Module Masters just told me "check back in a few months".....they are testing the final component .......iABS.


Afternoon oilhead1100s1150rt

Did you tell Module Masters that you think the servo pumps are operating?

The big hang-up in repairing the BMW I-ABS controller is the internal pressure sensors (they are/were not available) so IF your pumps are working then it doesn't sound like you have a pressure sensor issue.

It might be worth another call to Module Masters & having an in-depth talk with them as they might be able to repair your unit now.


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#1000586 - 11/09/17 10:41 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Have an 04 R1100S ABS and am always concerned about this failure, so flush system every year. Have always found threads about removing ABS system that says the electronics can be separated from the pump to keep speedometer and brake light working, so possible to remove. Also, though I found this website, the company is in Germany, but maybe an option, but know nothing about the company, here is a link, https://rhelectronics.de/.

#1000621 - 11/10/17 09:32 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
FYI.... Module Masters just told me "check back in a few months".....they are testing the final component .......iABS.

Don't hold your breath on this. For the 1150RT, they have been saying this since at least 2006 ish. I can't see them warranting the time to look into doing this for the limited number of bikes that will be left running. Most folk have ripped their Servo unit out and tossed it in the bin. It may well be different for the R1100S though.Me? Suspiciosly doubtful. However, as DR mentions, because it is the ABS element of the unit, they may be able to do something.

#1000804 - 11/13/17 01:55 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Hi, new to this forum. I've done two iABS removals (both on '04 R11s) due to failure and it is not hard. My first experience with iABS failure was while riding and that was NOT something I want to experience again. The electronic module can be detached from the pump (4 screws) leaving the wiring connection from the harness in place - this retains the speedo function. I used aluminum sheet from a hardware store to fashion a cover for the exposed part of the electronic module. Ditch the pump and associated hard lines and replace the old rubber lines with braided ones (I used Spiegler). For the front, I ran dual lines from the master to each caliper. The ABS light will remain on so I removed the light from the instrument cluster.

#1001123 - 11/18/17 11:48 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Hi to 041100S in Ark.
Lovely silver-looking bike you have.
Regarding the German firm RHelectronics, I know a couple of UK riders who were happy with their 800+ euro investment in having their iABS box repaired by that firm, instead of just ripping the entire system out.
Expensive, but if you so value the facility of the iABS, cheaper than a new module I suppose.


This is a list of the people I'd trust with my bike
#1004541 - 02/01/18 01:25 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: Alan Sykes]  
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After taking the bike to the dealer for a state inspection, failed. Tested iABS and told me servo unit needs replacement. I have copies of the test reports. I took the bike back, not paying them what they asked to repair. I then contacted Tom C at Rubber Chicken Racing for some assistance on this back in November. His work schedule was backed up to the point he was not taking any more new work. Put me in the "work to do file". I have not heard back from him yet. I will give him a call later this week in hope I can get him to take a look. Will be digging back into this shortly, as now my second bike has also failed iABS (2002 1150rt).

Last edited by oilhead1100s1150rt; 02/01/18 01:28 AM.
#1004543 - 02/01/18 01:43 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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I quickly read through all of your posts on this and did not see anywhere where you said you checked the level of the fluid in the abs servo under the tank. That's what the low level error means. Before I would pay a dime I would check that . It doesn't cost anything for you to do it yourself. As far as I know the ABS servo will not give a low level error message for the master cylinders. It will probably give some other message for that. Pull the tank and check.


2004 R1150RT 186,800 miles
1991 K100LT 128,700 miles
1982 R100RT 106,900 miles
Total 422,400 BMW miles

The cheapest thing on a BMW is the nut that connects the handlebars to the seat.
#1004572 - 02/01/18 05:40 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Thanks kioot, I have not done so, correct. I have taken the feedback from the dealership. I asked directly if the fluid was low, as I understood the readout to say, and the response was failure. I know, I know, probably not a good idea. As soon as I get a day above freezing, I will do it myself as suggested. Good point, thanks!

#1004576 - 02/01/18 06:07 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Additional details from Integrated Service Technical Application (BMW Tool) - readout from dealership

Identification Mode:

Fault description - measured wheel brake pressure at the front wheel is too high in relation to the control pressure.
Condition for fault ID - Voltage supply 9.0 V < U < 16.0 V Term 15 on
Fault Mem condition - Wheel brake cylinder pressure too high in relationship to control pressure
Action in service - Check break light with, hand, adjust break lights switch hand, check front pressure, check deviation values of internal sensors
check control unit
Note on effect - Brake servo assist front deactiveted, ABS control front deactivated
Fault description - break level too low
condition for fault memory - Brake level fluid detected too low for more than 8 secs
Action in service - check level in wheel circuits, check break fluid sensor and cables

Diagnostic Mode:
1st report -
Break Fluid Level - faulty
Break light switch - front and rear not operating
pressure - master rear = 22.38, master front 22.76 bar, wheel cyl rear = 21.79, wheel cal front = 66.07
control valve front and rear not active
Operating hours counter - front 3:15:00, fear 2:56:32
Battery voltage 12.05
Break light switch front = 2.75, rear = 2.75
Speed Sensor rear = 1.46, front = 1.56
Control valve front not active,rer not active
ABS control time front = 00:00:02, rear = 00:00:04
Operating Hours control unit = 64:50:42
Breaking time front = 3:15:00, rear = 2:56:32

I have readouts on my second bike(r1150rt 2002), but it looks like the test was unable to be done, will post separately.

#1004586 - 02/01/18 07:14 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Afternoon oilhead1100s1150rt

Additional details from Integrated Service Technical Application (BMW Tool) - readout from dealership

Identification Mode:

Fault description - measured wheel brake pressure at the front wheel is too high in relation to the control pressure.--This could be pointing to a failed or failing internal pressure sensor (somewhat common I-ABS failure point).

Condition for fault ID - Voltage supply 9.0 V < U < 16.0 V Term 15 on

Fault Mem condition - Wheel brake cylinder pressure too high in relationship to control pressure-- Could be pointing to an internal pressure sensor issue as it would be difficult to get wheel side pressure too high without also having high control side pressure.

Action in service - Check break light with, hand, adjust break lights switch hand, check front pressure, check deviation values of internal sensors
check control unit

Note on effect - Brake servo assist front deactiveted, ABS control front deactivated
Fault description - break level too low
condition for fault memory - Brake level fluid detected too low for more than 8 secs
Action in service - check level in wheel circuits, check break fluid sensor and cables
--This usually points to either a low wheel circuit reservoir being low or a failing reservoir level sensor.

Diagnostic Mode:
1st report -
Break Fluid Level - faulty
Break light switch - front and rear not operating-- might be due to starting engine with foot on the brake pedal or holding in front brake lever during engine starting.
pressure - master rear = 22.38, master front 22.76 bar, wheel cyl rear = 21.79, wheel cal front = 66.07
control valve front and rear not active
Operating hours counter - front 3:15:00, fear 2:56:32
Battery voltage 12.05
Break light switch front = 2.75, rear = 2.75
Speed Sensor rear = 1.46, front = 1.56
Control valve front not active,rer not active
ABS control time front = 00:00:02, rear = 00:00:04
Operating Hours control unit = 64:50:42
Breaking time front = 3:15:00, rear = 2:56:32

I have readouts on my second bike(r1150rt 2002), but it looks like the test was unable to be done, will post separately.


On this problem I would check both under fuel tank ABS controller reservoir fluid levels & if OK then check the integrity & continuity of both reservoir level sensors (probably not the issue but could be so is the place to start)

It is sort of pointing to failed or failing internal pressure sensor or sensors but verify the above first.


D.R. ___
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#1006087 - 02/24/18 09:11 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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After getting bike back from dealership, new light pattern on dash has begun -

key on - self test begins with brake failure light flashing constant rate
10 secs in - general warning light starts - both lights alternate at constant interval
start bike
30 secs in - both lights increase speed alternating (this pattern is not in the shop manual)

brakes go in and out of residual mode.

Anyone seen this before?

Going to check fluids in ABS controller - per previous post. The two reservoirs that need checking have safety clips on them correct, under the rubber boots that need to be pulled back?

Dave


Last edited by oilhead1100s1150rt; 02/24/18 09:17 PM.
#1006092 - 02/24/18 09:33 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
After getting bike back from dealership, new light pattern on dash has begun -

key on - self test begins with brake failure light flashing constant rate
10 secs in - general warning light starts - both lights alternate at constant interval
start bike
30 secs in - both lights increase speed alternating (this pattern is not in the shop manual)

brakes go in and out of residual mode.

Anyone seen this before?

Going to check fluids in ABS controller - per previous post. The two reservoirs that need checking have safety clips on them correct, under the rubber boots that need to be pulled back?

Dave



Afternoon Dave

The fast flashing lights could be pointing to a low fluid level in the ABS controller under the fuel tank.

No rubber boots to be pulled back as the caps should be right on top of the controller.

Added: be sure to clean all the dirt & grit from the cap area before removing caps so nothing drops down into the controller.


[Linked Image]


Last edited by dirtrider; 02/24/18 09:46 PM.

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#1006154 - 02/25/18 05:01 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Thanks DR, I am hoping it is just the fluid. Correct fill point is to the top of the cylinder? The pict is very helpful. Got it now. I have a video of the light sequence, but the site will not let me post it. Heading to work on it shortly.

Last edited by oilhead1100s1150rt; 02/25/18 05:02 PM.
#1006156 - 02/25/18 05:30 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
Thanks DR, I am hoping it is just the fluid. Correct fill point is to the top of the cylinder? The pict is very helpful. Got it now. I have a video of the light sequence, but the site will not let me post it. Heading to work on it shortly.


Afternoon oilhead1100s1150rt

First thing-- If you find a low reservoir then go over that end wheel circuit with a fine tooth comb looking for a seep as they usually don't go low by themselves unless a leak or they were improperly re-filled at last service.

Properly re-filling to the correct height is not as easy as it sounds, to do it correctly the brake pads on that end wheel circuit must be pried back to push the caliper fluid back into the brake controller during the filling. If you don't push the brake pads back into the calipers for filling (most riders don't) then DO NOT overfill the controller reservoirs or you will have brake fluid pushing out of the system at next front wheel change as the caliper pistons are pushed back to remove the wheel.

How far (how high) that you re-fill the reservoirs (if you don't pry the caliper pads back) sort of depends on the amount of brake pad wear (the more the brake pad wear the lower that you want the reservoir fluid levels)-- Just take a best guess & don't overfill.

[Linked Image]


D.R. ___
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#1006160 - 02/25/18 06:30 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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both look low to me.....there appears to be no leaks along the lines that I can see....will try to attach photo....one photo of each cylinder

Attached Files
IMG_0746.jpg (16 downloads)
#1006161 - 02/25/18 06:31 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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second photo...there does not seem to be any fluid .....????

Attached Files
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Last edited by oilhead1100s1150rt; 02/25/18 06:31 PM.
#1006162 - 02/25/18 06:34 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Once I fill....is there any other procedure required?

#1006170 - 02/25/18 07:22 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
Once I fill....is there any other procedure required?


Afternoon oilhead1100s1150rt

I really can't tell much from the pictures. Was it completely out of fluid?

As long as you have a solid brake lever or pedal then nothing more than re-filling them & finding where the original fluid went.

If the pedal or lever feels soft or spongy then probably bleed that end wheel circuit.

Probably wouldn't be a bad time to do a brake service & renew/bleed the fluid in both front & rear wheel circuits & both front & rear control circuits. You are already under the tank & THERE.


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#1006171 - 02/25/18 07:41 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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A much closer look.......I found the front brake lines both sides at the bottom connectors have some rust and are moist with fluid. The lines themselves, seem to have small drops all along them as if moisture is being attracted to them. As far as the fluid, one cylinder is low and one is very low. These brake lines are original, so they are coming off. The back line looks much better then the front, no visual leakage.

As the one of main objective right now, is to prove out if the pump is good or bad. When I fill the fluids, will the lights settle into a normal mode, even if there is a little air in the lines? If I can prove out the pump, then I will be happy to replace the rest of the brake lines, etc.



Last edited by oilhead1100s1150rt; 02/25/18 07:42 PM.
#1006177 - 02/25/18 07:59 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
A much closer look.......I found the front brake lines both sides at the bottom connectors have some rust and are moist with fluid. The lines themselves, seem to have small drops all along them as if moisture is being attracted to them. As far as the fluid, one cylinder is low and one is very low. These brake lines are original, so they are coming off. The back line looks much better then the front, no visual leakage.

As the one of main objective right now, is to prove out if the pump is good or bad. When I fill the fluids, will the lights settle into a normal mode, even if there is a little air in the lines? If I can prove out the pump, then I will be happy to replace the rest of the brake lines, etc.





Afternoon oilhead1100s1150rt

Yes, as long as the brake system isn't totally air bound then it should restore the lights. The flashing lights are usually driven by the controller's internal fluid level sensors sending a low fluid level signal to the controller's brain then the brain box shutting the ABS ability down.

It sounds like you might need new brake hoses (those usually degrade from the inside out so you can't really see how bad they are until one pops under hard braking, or just leaks all the fluid out).

BMW changed the brake hoses on the 1200 bikes to a stahlflex type that last a LOT longer than the 1150 brake hoses do.


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#1006202 - 02/26/18 03:00 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Maybe a spare is in order... just in case.
LINK



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#1006208 - 02/26/18 11:47 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: LBump]  
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Originally Posted by LBump
Maybe a spare is in order... just in case.
LINK


That is a pre 2001 ABS unit, it won't fit his 2003 motorcycle.


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#1006216 - 02/26/18 01:27 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Hats off to D.R.

@oilhead1100s1150rt why don't you just flush the bike's braking circuits, then see if the error comes back.
On the Gs911 diagnose unit, you can test what is the actual error and where: front or back.
If it is within a pressure sensor, I am not sure if those can be replaced; but for the level sensors, if it helps, I have a broken 1200GS unit and perhaps we can swap the whole (level) module from mine bike to yours.

Dan.

#1006218 - 02/26/18 01:46 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: dan cata]  
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Originally Posted by dan cata
Hats off to D.R.

@oilhead1100s1150rt why don't you just flush the bike's braking circuits, then see if the error comes back.
On the Gs911 diagnose unit, you can test what is the actual error and where: front or back.
If it is within a pressure sensor, I am not sure if those can be replaced; but for the level sensors, if it helps, I have a broken 1200GS unit and perhaps we can swap the whole (level) module from mine bike to yours.

Dan.


Morning Dan

Your 1200GS ABS module talks to the bike's other electronics through the CAN (CanBus) so I have serious doubts that your 1200GS ABS module will work properly with the older non CanBus (1100/1150 era) systems.


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#1006270 - 02/26/18 06:46 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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update: filled the pump in both cylinders, there was an effect - the fast flashing lights have gone, so DR, the fast alternating light warnings are a direct result of low fluid level. Now I am back to the original issue from weeks back, lights say one system is in residual breaking mode. More data: whenI first turned the ignition after refill, all self checks passed and the lights were normal. As soon as I touched the front break lever, back to one residual warning. If I listen to both micro switches, I hear them working what sounds like correctly. Intermittent, when I touch the front break lever, the pumps do not start up. When encaging the rear pedal, the pumps do not shut off.

Flushing the system is next, for sure. I have been trying everything else, as I have never done it before. I have a shop manual, but new procedure for me.

Best to get a power flush tool?

Dave

#1006275 - 02/26/18 09:43 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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I hand bled the front caliper and topped off the front cylinder in the servo..... seems to be the same. Might have not been the best of flushes. The unit seems to go into failure only after the front break is applied two or three times. Then the front goes into residual. I sent the fault codes to ModuleMasters as DR suggested earlier. No response yet. I do hear the pump working for the rear, until the failure. Then the rear will not turn off. I do hear the pumps working on the front, until failure to residual Mose. I am hoping the fact that both circuits activate the pump is a good thing?

Dave

#1006279 - 02/26/18 10:36 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
I hand bled the front caliper and topped off the front cylinder in the servo..... seems to be the same. Might have not been the best of flushes. The unit seems to go into failure only after the front break is applied two or three times. Then the front goes into residual. I sent the fault codes to ModuleMasters as DR suggested earlier. No response yet. I do hear the pump working for the rear, until the failure. Then the rear will not turn off. I do hear the pumps working on the front, until failure to residual Mose. I am hoping the fact that both circuits activate the pump is a good thing?

Dave


Evening Dave

Your failure mode is kind of inline with a failed, or failing, internal pressure switch (those are non replaceable as they are non available).

Do a good bleed on the front wheel circuit then see what you have. (bleed with the key-on so you have servo pressure to push the fluid through the servo circuit)

If you still have the problem then you will probably need a GS-911 or a dealer computer to get the REAL failure codes (the flashing dash lights
basically only tell you that you don't have ABS available.

You do have the option to remove the ABS system (not real easy but it is doable at home)-- Without the ABS/servo system you still have great brakes just no ABS available.


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#1006292 - 02/27/18 01:28 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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DR - I posted the dealership real fault codes
readout on page two of this thread...... the dealership said replacement of the servo - was the answer.

When you say bleed the front circuit, I would do so with both the handlebar reservoir and the servo reservoir open to fill and bleed at the caliper, correct?

Dave

#1006313 - 02/27/18 11:22 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
DR - I posted the dealership real fault codes
readout on page two of this thread...... the dealership said replacement of the servo - was the answer
.

When you say bleed the front circuit, I would do so with both the handlebar reservoir and the servo reservoir open to fill and bleed at the caliper, correct?

Dave



Morning David

That is problem with these longer multi-day threads-- we get going down a single path & forget what was posted early on. (that early data does kind of point to an internal pressure switch issue)

On the bleeding & brake circuits-- your bike basically has 4 separate braking fluid circuits (front control circuit, rear control circuit, front wheel circuit, rear wheel circuit). They are separated as in no direct hydraulic connection but do interconnect electrically & through transfer pistons.

The above means that you basically bleed the 4 brake circuits separately.

The wheel circuits are bled from the caliper bleeder screws while refilling at the servo pump (controller) internal reservoirs. & the control circuits are bled separately from the bleeder screws on top on the controller while refilling the reservoirs on the handlebar or at rear brake pedal area.

There are a number of BMW I-ABS complete bleeding procedures on this site (not easy to find) & also some online BMW I-ABS bleeding procedures so see what you can find then ask lots of questions. Or look back here later for more info (I don't have the time right now to type up the entire bleeding procedure).

Below is the basic bleed sequence for each control circuit--


[Linked Image]





Last edited by dirtrider; 02/27/18 11:39 AM.

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#1006347 - 02/27/18 05:58 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Afternoon Dave

Bleed in the following sequence, using front brake lever

-- front metering cylinder (1),
--front integral circuit (2),
-- front control circuit (3) --and then
--front metering cylinder (1) for the second time.



Bleed in the following sequence, using rear brake pedal

-- rear metering cylinder (1),
-- rear integral circuit (2),
-- rear control circuit (3) -- and then
-- rear metering cylinder (1) for the second time.

Use the above controller picture I posted to determine circuit numbers.

Be sure to keep the reservoirs full of fluid during the bleeding process.

Put a long clear hose on the controller bleed nipples to vent the used fluid into a container & away from the motorcycle (brake fluid can really damage the paint & electrical components).

Also toss a clean box cutter blade or a clean US quarter (25 cent piece) into the front master cylinder reservoir to keep the squirt-back inside the reservoir as you pump the lever.

Also cover the dash & painted plastic with plastic garbage bags, or a good plastic tarp, to prevent damage if some brake fluid gets away from you.

Unless you have specialized wrenches you might have a problem getting on a couple of the controller bleed nipples. If so then remove the main wire harness plug going into the brake controller but BE SURE to use duct tape over the exposed open cavity to keep ALL the brake fluid out of the controller electronics.


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#1006352 - 02/27/18 06:29 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Thanks DR, very helpful.

I see nothing in the shop manuals about doing any reset after the flush. I also am replacing the lines with SS. Do I need to reset the ABS warnings at all? I am under the impression, they reset with every start of the ignition.

Dave

#1006355 - 02/27/18 06:49 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
Thanks DR, very helpful.

I see nothing in the shop manuals about doing any reset after the flush. I also am replacing the lines with SS. Do I need to reset the ABS warnings at all? I am under the impression, they reset with every start of the ignition.

Dave



Afternoon Dave

Your I-ABS (servo system) re-sets at every new key-on, when reading about BMW ABS don't confuse your system with the older ABS-2 system as that is manually re-settable.

BUT!-- always a but, you can t-r-y disconnecting your battery for about 5 minutes or remove the plug from your ABS controller for about 5 minutes as that will totally clear the ABS electronics. (big IF on this one though)


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#1006384 - 02/28/18 02:57 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Ever use a Mityvac to help with the bleeding? Better to just utilize the internal servo pumps?

#1006389 - 02/28/18 11:03 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
Ever use a Mityvac to help with the bleeding? Better to just utilize the internal servo pumps?



Morning Dave

You don't need a Mityvac for the control circuits & using the key-on servo pump running is definitely best for the wheel circuits. Hopefully the servos keep working long enough to bleed the wheels circuits.


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#1006488 - 03/01/18 01:09 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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New brakes lines on order, will replace this weekend.

I believe the servo pumps will work for bleeding. From what I understand, I will need to run the pumps for one lengthy and thorough cycle to flush. My front circuit dies after three cycles on average, so I should be OK.

After researching fluid types, I see synthetic - DOT4 and DOT 5.1 are interchangeable. There are many threads already debating general characteristics. The bikes say DOT4 on the filler caps, as you know. With DOT 5.1 having a higher boring point. For these older bikes, do you have a recommendation?

#1006491 - 03/01/18 01:35 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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Originally Posted by oilhead1100s1150rt
New brakes lines on order, will replace this weekend.

I believe the servo pumps will work for bleeding. From what I understand, I will need to run the pumps for one lengthy and thorough cycle to flush. My front circuit dies after three cycles on average, so I should be OK.

After researching fluid types, I see synthetic - DOT4 and DOT 5.1 are interchangeable. There are many threads already debating general characteristics. The bikes say DOT4 on the filler caps, as you know. With DOT 5.1 having a higher boring point. For these older bikes, do you have a recommendation?


Morning oilhead1100s1150rt

With ABS you really want to stick to a good DOT4. When it comes to brake fluid the word 'synthetic' is more of a marketing gimmick than anything useful.

Boiling point is kind of a non-issue on the BMW I-ABS systems as the working end (brake circuits) are open to atmosphere so take in moisture easily (that is the reason for the yearly wheel circuit flush recommendation).

Just pick a good name brand Dot 4 brake fluid (from an UNOPENED CAN).

As far as "will need to run the pumps for one lengthy and thorough cycle to flush", that is a start but personally I like to run the servo pump long enough to get good bubble free fluid flow, then close the bleeder screw, then run the servo pump on a closed bleeder to build system pressure, then open the bleed screw & bleed again. This compresses any air remaining in the system & purges it out of the pockets, valves, & pressure switches. I do this a couple of times.


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#1007208 - 03/12/18 01:45 AM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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update:

Changed out brake lines to SS
Filled and bled - following BMW shop manual and advise from here- all procedures followed.
Fully charged battery - reading 12.88
ABS still showing failure after roll test
Servo will not start until rear peddle pushed only, no start on front lever initial pull
Servo stays on after rear peddle applied

Sent report to Module Masters I had from Dealer testing - saying most likely internal controller bad.

Will be waiting for MM iABS build to come online........months from now most likely...

#1007225 - 03/12/18 12:48 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: oilhead1100s1150rt]  
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I'm planning to remove the Servo-assist pump, ABS unit on my 02 R1100S when time comes to replace the brake lines.
Likely source a replacement wiring harness and ECU unit, too.


Master your environment, and you will survive just fine.
Chances favor the prepared mind.
#1007226 - 03/12/18 01:10 PM Re: 2003 r1100s ABS failure 2x in 4K miles [Re: cat0020]  
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Originally Posted by cat0020
I'm planning to remove the Servo-assist pump, ABS unit on my 02 R1100S when time comes to replace the brake lines.
Likely source a replacement wiring harness and ECU unit, too.



Morning cat0020

It will take more than an ECU & wire harness to go that direction. The dash instrument panel (probably just the electronic speedometer) is different on the non ABS 1100S as well as the speed sensor (I'm also not sure that your current final drive will work with the required speed sensor). Your current brake switches probably won't work correctly either.

In any case, it is a LOT easier, quicker, cheaper to just retain the existing ABS speedometer/speed sensor parts & remove the hydro part of your existing ABS controller then build a block-off plate & keep the black box part of your existing ABS unit. That should give you great conventional brakes but keep a functioning speedometer & brake/tail light operation using your current I.P. speedometer.


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