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Battery charge makes things all better!


Trobinson

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I've dealt with an intermittent problem for a few months that I finally had time to do some troubleshooting of. The bike would lose power once in a while for a short period then drive like normal.

Checked fuel pressure and it was ok. I was also doing the valves and TB balance when it started doing it while on the centerstand. I changed the plugs due to hearing it miss and I also checked the battery and found it was at 12.5vdc. Put the battery minder on it overnight and the ride that morning and today was without incident. I'm sure the low battery was the culprit of the intermittent loss of power.

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I'm sure the low battery was the culprit of the intermittent loss of power.

 

Unlikely.

 

When you say it loses power, do you mean the engine shuts off, or that it runs with reduced capacity?

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I've dealt with an intermittent problem for a few months that I finally had time to do some troubleshooting of. The bike would lose power once in a while for a short period then drive like normal.

Checked fuel pressure and it was ok. I was also doing the valves and TB balance when it started doing it while on the centerstand. I changed the plugs due to hearing it miss and I also checked the battery and found it was at 12.5vdc. Put the battery minder on it overnight and the ride that morning and today was without incident. I'm sure the low battery was the culprit of the intermittent loss of power.

 

Morning Trobinson

 

What makes you SURE that the battery was the cause of your intermittent loss of power?

 

Once the engine is running at speed the battery is pretty well out of the picture as the alternator is then supplying most of the system power.

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HES

It could be the HES, but, it only occurs for a short period of time and is temperature (outside temp anyway) independent. Time will tell.

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Morning Trobinson

 

What makes you SURE that the battery was the cause of your intermittent loss of power?

 

Once the engine is running at speed the battery is pretty well out of the picture as the alternator is then supplying most of the system power.

 

My reasoning is that the previous day, while just sitting in the garage, it had become quite rough and the previous day's ride home I had noticed it was not as smooth as it had been. Once the battery was charged the roughness was gone and it has not lost power once in two days. Time will tell. Also, I know the bike runs on the alternator once it's started, but have also experienced strange issues before due to a low battery (both on the bike and in my cars). Electronics, go figure.

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I'm sure the low battery was the culprit of the intermittent loss of power.

 

Unlikely.

 

When you say it loses power, do you mean the engine shuts off, or that it runs with reduced capacity?

It runs like it is starving for air, spark, or fuel. Fuel is fine, the plugs were fine, battery was low.

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What battery do you run?

I installed a MotoBatt about a year ago. Previous commute was only 5 - 7 miles one way and I had not been keeping it on the battery minder in between.

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I'm sure the low battery was the culprit of the intermittent loss of power.

 

Unlikely.

 

When you say it loses power, do you mean the engine shuts off, or that it runs with reduced capacity?

It runs like it is starving for air, spark, or fuel. Fuel is fine, the plugs were fine, battery was low.

 

Hmm. As DirtRider indicated, as long as your charging system is functioning, the battery is really not a factor when the engine is running.

 

With a HES failure, there's usually a total shutdown of the engine -- as if the kill switch or key have been turned off.

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Side note on the MotoBatt.

The small bolts included can be problematic if you use the brass adapters. They, in time will vibrate loose.

Once we started using a 6mm star washer under the bolt head, the problem of the cables and or adapters working loose ended.

If the (or any) battery is allowed to go flat from sitting, it never fully recovers. The maintenance charger use needs to be preemptive, not after the horse has left the corral.

 

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I'll put in another vote that a fully charged battery solving the problem sounds odd. Not saying it can't happen, but I think it might be a coincidence.

 

I had a similar problem on my 1100rs. It would stutter or just plain stall, and by the time I moved over to the shoulder it would start up and run just fine. Happened intermittently, sometimes repeatedly for a bit, and then run fine for a few days. It would do that, cold, hot, throttle wide open, idling, etc. Really couldn't point to anything that would trigger it. Replaced the Hall sensor. No joy.

 

Anyway, it turned out to be a weak coil. Might be worth checking that out.

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  • 3 months later...

Update. I'll eat a bit of crow here to start as this problem came back and worse than it was (but not as bad as I've experienced in the past, but that's another story). So, I went out for a ride a couple of weeks ago and couldn't go more than a mile without it losing power then regaining it. Brought the bike home and ordered a filter from Beemerboneyard along with a strainer. Got the parts this week (mixup by the post office delayed delivery) and installed them yesterday finishing up connecting lines this morning. Took her for a ride and she is much smoother with no indication of this problem. Now I had replaced the filter within the last year or so and less than 3k miles which is why I didn't think that was the cause initially. Anyway, now I don't have the fuel level indication working and I'm sure I connected the sensor during install of the pump assy. If it is disconnected is there much risk to leaving it until I run it out of fuel so I don't have to drain much? It doesn't indicate properly anyway so I don't really pay attention to it.

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Update. I'll eat a bit of crow here to start as this problem came back and worse than it was (but not as bad as I've experienced in the past, but that's another story). So, I went out for a ride a couple of weeks ago and couldn't go more than a mile without it losing power then regaining it. Brought the bike home and ordered a filter from Beemerboneyard along with a strainer. Got the parts this week (mixup by the post office delayed delivery) and installed them yesterday finishing up connecting lines this morning. Took her for a ride and she is much smoother with no indication of this problem. Now I had replaced the filter within the last year or so and less than 3k miles which is why I didn't think that was the cause initially. Anyway, now I don't have the fuel level indication working and I'm sure I connected the sensor during install of the pump assy. If it is disconnected is there much risk to leaving it until I run it out of fuel so I don't have to drain much? It doesn't indicate properly anyway so I don't really pay attention to it.

 

Afternoon Trobinson

 

There are 2 sensors inside the tank (the low fuel sensor & the main fuel gauge sensor)

 

No harm in leaving it disconnected & possibly the low fuel light still works OK.

 

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I decided to go ahead and check it since I still have the tupperware off. Sure enough, it was disconnected. I sprayed both sides with some De-oxit and reconnected. Now works (low fuel as well).

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Hasn't there been some analysis done, probably by Roger or Dirtrider , that showed that if the battery was weak enough upon start that the Motronic unit would not initialize properly? I know that's not exactly what's going on here, but I seem to recall reading something along those lines.

 

I ran Odyssey batteries for years but only learned later, again thanks to the Wisdom here, that they never quite charge correctly with the stock alternator/regulator on these bikes. So I bought the kind of battery tender that gives the higher voltage...but didn't carry it on long treks. I always wondered why the bike would sometimes run spot on then the next day it would not quite be the same, then go back to perfect, then not.

 

I could have this all wrong. Regardless, I switched to a Westco standard sealed battery and the bike seems happier. Totally subjective and anecdotal on my part of course.

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Hasn't there been some analysis done, probably by Roger or Dirtrider , that showed that if the battery was weak enough upon start that the Motronic unit would not initialize properly? I know that's not exactly what's going on here, but I seem to recall reading something along those lines.

 

I ran Odyssey batteries for years but only learned later, again thanks to the Wisdom here, that they never quite charge correctly with the stock alternator/regulator on these bikes. So I bought the kind of battery tender that gives the higher voltage...but didn't carry it on long treks. I always wondered why the bike would sometimes run spot on then the next day it would not quite be the same, then go back to perfect, then not.

 

I could have this all wrong. Regardless, I switched to a Westco standard sealed battery and the bike seems happier. Totally subjective and anecdotal on my part of course.

 

Yes the problem you are referring to is different that what Tom is experiencing. I solved the problem you are referring to on my '99 RT by going to a AGM battery with a higher 22 amp hour rating than the OEM battery. Universal Battery UB12220, which is about $50 shipped to my door and they last about 5+ years with use of a battery maintainer.

 

 

 

Not sure that rough running is fixed by a battery charge, but I am always open to a unexpected solution that would be discounted by conventional wisdom. My guess it is dying coil, HES, or plugged fuel filter. What do the spark plugs look like.

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Fuel filter and strainer replaced and all is well. Rode to work this morning and it was smooth again with no power loss along the way. Spark plugs were good last time I checked when troubleshooting this problem. I've been down this road before only it was a total cutout then back on within a second and the fuel filter was the fix then too (after going through the HES and coil!).

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Hi Tom

 

I'm not sure why I didn't comment on this earlier, but your experience is a damn near 100% corollary to my own with my 99 RT.

 

Riding fine for 2 weeks, then dropping a cylinder. At first, I thought it was when it got hot - but then it started happening when cold. It would always come back and never left me stranded, but it was never quite right.

 

The bike was owned by an enthusiast who'd really taken care of everything, so I was SURE the HES was fine.

 

I had an ECU code and DR and Roger helped me get the AF-XiED fixed and the bike was all fixed. Intermittent AF-XiED. Or not.

 

Checked valves, not it (not that it could be, but rule it out)

Balanced throttle bodies

spark plugs

eventually changed the coil and wires.

went through the fuel system, filters, hoses, etc.

 

Every time, I thought that was it fixed. It would be fine. Sometimes a few days, sometimes weeks. But the problem always came back.

 

It was the HES. I'd pulled the sleeve back and it looked fine, but once I got it on the bench, the wiring fell apart like confetti.

 

So, my suggestion is to pull the front cover and belt or the side and get to the wiring and handle it.

 

Once I rewired it, it was like a brand new bike. Complete transformation. And really fixed actually, truly.

 

Scott

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  • 2 weeks later...
Do you still have the charcoal canister on that bike? Could that have killed your filter?

No, the charcoal canister was removed shortly after I got the bike.

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  • 2 months later...

Reviving this thread because the temporary loss of power on my '96 R1100RT is back. As I've mentioned previously I've been having intermittent temporary loss of power. It's been at least 2-3 weeks of riding since it last occurred when it happened the other night on the way home. It wasn't bad and was pretty short lived, but it is getting frustrating. I've replaced the fuel filter and sock (filter twice). Replaced plugs as well a couple of months ago. It does not seem likely to be ignition related unless possibly a bad coil? The most recent incident the outside temp was cool, say 60F, and the engine was at 5 bars which is normal. Anyway, I'm open to other ideas. I do have another HES I can throw at it, but it just doesn't seem a likely candidate.

 

Tom

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When you remove the spark plug wires, do you use the plastic tool?

Over the weekend I have worked on a 1150RT that had the spark plug wires damaged by the owner that removed them using a flat screwdriver :| There were cracks in them, where you would usually mount the tool to pull them out of the bike.

At idle, the speed would occasionally drop to ~ 800 rpm for a nanosecond and then it would be just fine for a couple of more seconds. Also, there was the spark specific sound, since the spark did not happen inside the engine but outside it, at the valve cover.

 

Dan.

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When you remove the spark plug wires, do you use the plastic tool?

Over the weekend I have worked on a 1150RT that had the spark plug wires damaged by the owner that removed them using a flat screwdriver :| There were cracks in them, where you would usually mount the tool to pull them out of the bike.

At idle, the speed would occasionally drop to ~ 800 rpm for a nanosecond and then it would be just fine for a couple of more seconds. Also, there was the spark specific sound, since the spark did not happen inside the engine but outside it, at the valve cover.

 

Dan.

 

Morning Dan

 

Personally I use (2) wide flat screwdrivers (actually little pry bars) as I have found using 2 screwdrivers does less damage to the spark plug boots than a dedicated remover tool.

 

One screwdriver or one pry bar can damage the plug boot tops as that just pushes on the boot top at an angle & also puts ALL the removal load on one side slot.

 

Using 2 screwdrivers keeps the load even on both sides, plus the entry angle also push's the screwdriver blades towards each other slightly & that keeps the tip deeper in the slots.

 

Using a dedicated removal tool fits the slots somewhat loosely & as the load is increased the rubber deflects so the tool only bites on the outer ends of the slots.

 

An added benefit of using 2 screwdrivers on the later 1150 engines is a person can smoothly (slowly) pry the stick coils out without having to remove the wire connectors. (easy to damage the wires, coil, or connector in removing the connector plug if the coil snaps loose suddenly).

 

If using the special tool, or using the string method, the coils can pop out suddenly with force & ruin the wires or connector, so to be safe a person really should disconnect the connector using either of these methods.

 

Using 2 screwdrivers allows slow smooth coil removal so they never snap loose suddenly.

 

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Makes sens to use the screwdrivers, as you say. I use the plastic tool for the 1100/1150 and an aluminum tool for the 1200 series. Never broke a coil, so far at least :D

 

Dan.

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I don't use any tool, just my hands. They've always been snug, but not super tight and I easily remove them this way and always straight, never crooked. I do not have the stick coils being an R1100 model.

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