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#1003128 - 01/03/18 03:36 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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AndyS Offline
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Somerset, Great Britain.
Hmm, no.
On previous bikes I have the shiny boundary (depending on how and where the bike is being ridden), but can't say it has ever been able to smear it.

#1003131 - 01/03/18 04:36 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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DJ_Fission Offline
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DJ_Fission  Offline
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Council Bluffs, IA
Those look like Michelin PR4s...perhaps that shininess has something to do with the dual-compound construction? I have to say that photo doesn't really look any different from my PR4.


2012 BMW R1200R (Sabine)
Member of: BMWMOA #189688; BMWRA #40273; IBA #55835.
My fuel economy -- powered by Fuelly
#1003132 - 01/03/18 04:58 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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Paul De Offline
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Milwaukee Wisconsin, USA
Hi Rodger,

Tire goober you say, that sure isn't normal. Between the smooth surface of a brand new tire and any tire mold release agent (silicon oil, or some type fatty acid compound like erucamide) could cause all kinds of problems until scrubbed off. But that stuff is by design sitting only on the tire surface and the gummy material you say you can smear off may point to some solvent that penetrated and soften the rubber compound which would make the problems persist much longer...maybe even spoil the nature of the rubber compound under prolonged exposure. My guess that unless the tire was sitting in the solvent for a while it really should scrub off with more riding. Maybe try using some Dawn dish soap water and a soft scrub brush to get all that stuff off your tire, rinse and let dry and then see if the issue is gone.

Just a swag here, but you might ask how the dealer prepared the bike. Did they use some solvating type cleaner to wipe off the exhaust and rims. Some of those so called environmental friendly cleaners could be a culprit as they are based on limonene compounds which are very soluble in rubber. Limonene can turn un-vulcanized rubber into a gummy sticky mess...we call it glue where I workgrin


If the good old days were so damn good, why did we bother to invent modern times?

Most missed bike: Bultaco Sherpa T 326
#1003133 - 01/03/18 05:00 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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JamesW Offline
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Florence, Oregon
Hi Roger, congrats on the new RT. Do you still have your '04 ? One thing nice is you won't have to concern yourself with fueling issues.


James
'93 R1100RSL / '10 FJR1300A
#1003137 - 01/03/18 08:34 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: JamesW]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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roger 04 rt  Offline
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Naples FL & Cape Cod
Originally Posted by JamesW
Hi Roger, congrats on the new RT. Do you still have your '04 ? One thing nice is you won't have to concern yourself with fueling issues.


Thanks, I really like this bike! Although the fueling feels quite good, I will do some work on it. First I'll add the AF-XIEDs and later a pair of LC-2s. I'd like to see how it reacts to a few percent more fuel, then I plan to use the LC-2s to map the fueling and see what's what. None of this will happen until later in the spring or summer though until I've got the bike broken in. The one thing I notice is that I'm downshifting more at low RPMs than I had to with the R1150RT (sold) at 8% rich. We'll see how a little fuel effects that.

#1003138 - 01/03/18 09:47 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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Indy Dave Offline
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Indianapolis
Roger, not sure if you've seen this from Ax-fied's website:

R1200
Use of the BMW AFXIED is no longer recommended for 2014 and later liquid cooled R1200. Field updates to the ECM by BMW Dealers during routine service department visits are creating incompatibility between the ECM and the AFXIED.

The field upgrade was something beyond our control, with no know issues prior to the new ECM load occurring in late 2016. With the field upgrade slowly propagating the change, the situation was not discovered until early 2017. This resulted in our de-certification of the R1200 LC models.

We are in the process of developing an updated AFXIED for these bikes. Release date to be announced at a future time.

There are no known issues with the older air/oil cooled engines.


Workin' Them Angels . . .overtime
06 R12RT

Bumbling BackRoad Riders™

The point of the journey is not to arrive...

#1003141 - 01/03/18 10:08 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: Indy Dave]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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roger 04 rt  Offline
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Naples FL & Cape Cod
Originally Posted by workin' them angels
Roger, not sure if you've seen this from Ax-fied's website:

R1200
Use of the BMW AFXIED is no longer recommended for 2014 and later liquid cooled R1200. Field updates to the ECM by BMW Dealers during routine service department visits are creating incompatibility between the ECM and the AFXIED.

The field upgrade was something beyond our control, with no know issues prior to the new ECM load occurring in late 2016. With the field upgrade slowly propagating the change, the situation was not discovered until early 2017. This resulted in our de-certification of the R1200 LC models.

We are in the process of developing an updated AFXIED for these bikes. Release date to be announced at a future time.

There are no known issues with the older air/oil cooled engines.

Let me hijack myself for a moment ...

Yes, I am well aware of that but thanks for bringing it up. I was the pioneer for that project after putting an Innovate Motorsports LC-1 on my R1150RT. The LC-1 worked great but it was too hard to implement for the average rider. I got Nightrider to create an AF-XIED that would be plug 'n play for the entire BMW line of bikes.

It's working out pretty well except on the latest model R1200 LC bikes with the latest software. BMW has incorporated a new test of the O2 sensor to try and knock out bad sensors (fueling modifiers) and as a result the AF-XIED causes the BMSX to throw a minor code. For the last several months, I have been helping Steve at Nightrider to develop an add-on module, together with an owner of an LC GSA and LC RT. As of just last week, a new adaptor module to the XIED has passed all its tests on a LC bike and will be headed into production soon.

The new adaptor module will be compatible with all existing AF-XIEDs. Nightrider is pretty conservative so I expect they will take several weeks or months to bring it to production.

This whole episode reminds me of the Mad Magazine Spy vs Spy cartoon where each spy tries to outdo the other. BMW keeps making its sensor tests more accurate and fueling add-on makers then have to adapt.

As of this time, I should be able to get a pair of the Beta Units now that I've got an RTW. I'll run those first but then later switch to LC-2s so that I can log the RTW AFR for the entire map. Actual, on the road AFR, is almost always much different than the inaccurate AFRs you see from Dyno runs. That's why I want to map it myself. If you've got a few nights, ;), here's a link to the research: http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=746671#Post746671.

Here's the beta-unit add-on module that gets the AF-XIED to play with the newest RTWs.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by roger 04 rt; 01/03/18 10:20 PM.
#1003142 - 01/03/18 10:31 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: Paul De]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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roger 04 rt  Offline
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Naples FL & Cape Cod
Originally Posted by Paul De
Hi Roger,

Tire goober you say, that sure isn't normal. Between the smooth surface of a brand new tire and any tire mold release agent (silicon oil, or some type fatty acid compound like erucamide) could cause all kinds of problems until scrubbed off. But that stuff is by design sitting only on the tire surface and the gummy material you say you can smear off may point to some solvent that penetrated and soften the rubber compound which would make the problems persist much longer...maybe even spoil the nature of the rubber compound under prolonged exposure. My guess that unless the tire was sitting in the solvent for a while it really should scrub off with more riding. Maybe try using some Dawn dish soap water and a soft scrub brush to get all that stuff off your tire, rinse and let dry and then see if the issue is gone.

Just a swag here, but you might ask how the dealer prepared the bike. Did they use some solvating type cleaner to wipe off the exhaust and rims. Some of those so called environmental friendly cleaners could be a culprit as they are based on limonene compounds which are very soluble in rubber. Limonene can turn un-vulcanized rubber into a gummy sticky mess...we call it glue where I workgrin


I spoke to the dealer, who seems fairly transparent. Here's what he said:

--They don't treat the tires, "that's a no no."
--All the new tires they see have some release agent on them and are slick at delivery
--Coating described as waxy, almost like Armor All like. Consistent with what I see.
--Someone left the dealership last week on a new bike and dumped it exiting the parking lot. Fall attributed to slick tires.
--When you just replace one tire, the coating issues aren't so noticeable as on a new bike.
--Their advice is to ride-in the tires with caution. (I don't remember them saying that wink )

The last two Michelin tires I changed were shiny over most of the surface of the tire but not quite like the ones I have now. The coating I've focused on in the photo doesn't cover the whole tire, just the road contact area (yikes) and not even the last inch on either side of center. And the coating I see is a little thicker than I remember on my other tires. ...

So that's what I heard. After looking at what's on them a little more I'm going to give them a strong scrub down with detergent and a 3M pad.

Last edited by roger 04 rt; 01/03/18 10:36 PM.
#1003161 - 01/04/18 08:00 AM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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Posts: 498
Red Offline
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Burns, OR
For what it's worth. I have been advised by dealer and non dealer tire installers to "take it easy" for the first 50 miles or so on new tires until they are scuffed up because out of the box they are slick and will dump you like hard breaking on a wet lawn. People dumping their bike shortly after getting new rubber is not uncommon if they brake, accelerate, or corner aggressively soon after installation. Almost every tire I've owned had, at some time, a similar color/wear profile as the one pictured. Good or bad, the coloration and wear seems to be typical (for me).


Red,
"The trouble with internet quotes is that you can never know if they are genuine." -- Julius Caesar
#1003243 - 01/06/18 12:49 PM Re: 2017 R1200RT Stability [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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roger 04 rt  Offline
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Naples FL & Cape Cod
I got out for an hour of tire scrubbing-in a couple days ago and rode for several miles of S-turns at various speeds on a two lane road, banking as far over as I could in the two lanes of space available. The handling felt quick and completely predictable, really very good.

On the way home I rode into a blustery headwind and noticed that as I changed sides of my lane, with the bike essentially straight up, there was a sense of a lack of precision. Perhaps this is due to the compound tread construction with a relatively harder center tread, time will tell. Interesting though that there was a feeling of greater precision making aggressive turns than going straight ahead.

Regarding tire pressure, I haven’t really noticed a big difference between front tire 36 and 39 psi in the handling, just the ride is a bit harsher so I’ll stay at 36 as recommended in the manual. Odd that by specifying 36 and 42 as measured by the TPM. that they want higher actual pressure on hot days and lower on cold ones.

Dirtrider has suggested that I get 1500 miles or so on the tires which will flatten the center section some and I’m going to take that advice and see where I’m at.

Last edited by roger 04 rt; 01/06/18 01:20 PM.
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