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Rhetorical Question


Roger C

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For the reputation that BMW motorcycles have, what do they make them so dang complicated to service? Never mind, rant over.

 

What do you mean? The 1100 and 1150RT's are NOT complicated to service. They are incredibly easy. However, if you want to get into complicated expensive and time consuming, get a Wethead!

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I can do a valve adjustment on my R90s in less than 1/2 hour. Synch the carbs in less than 15 min. Points and condenser, with a timing check, maybe 20 min.

 

Oh, you probably meant a modern bike, not an old Airhead with a zillion miles on it. :)

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For the reputation that BMW motorcycles have, what do they make them so dang complicated to service? Never mind, rant over.

 

Morning Roger

 

Do a service & valve adjustment on same age Ducati THEN come back & tell us how complicated the BMW is?

 

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Morning Roger

 

Do a service & valve adjustment on same age Ducati THEN come back & tell us how complicated the BMW is?

 

+1 Desmo valve adjustment scares me and you don't have to pull the gas tank to do the valves. My next door neighbor has a Duc 916 and his solution is to have kept in contact with a mechanic he trusts yo touch his baby to do the desmo valves as has moved from shop to shop. All other stuff he can do himself.

 

 

My '99 RT was about the same as my '71/5 maintenance wise. Adding the extra 4 valve clearance adjustments offset not having to touch the point & condenser. Also my '99 had one less gear oil bath to change than my '71 but was slightly more messy do the transmission and keep the gear oil off the exhaust. The time spent on spring tune up on either the '99 or '71 was about the same...about 2 beers worth!

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Not trying to start any controversy, just expressing my frustration (and inexperience) with a R1100RT which I bought last fall not knowing the pitfalls and failures which come with a bike that was parked outside most of the winter months. It is now in the best shape ever and is for sale on Greensboro, NC Craigslist.

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Roger, sorry to see you go.

 

They're hard to service in a sense: taking off that goddamn tupperware each time to even replace the battery, and other things--almost every other thing--is a PITA. BMW could have engineered the bodywork removal better, I think.

 

Once you've wasted 15 minutes of your life doing THAT, again and again, then it gets easier. Valves are easy. Throttle body syncs are easy for as long as they last: about 500 miles. Bowdin box is a nightmare, splines, rear end, brakes on an 1150... yeah, all that sucks.

 

I could rant too, but guess what? I still have, and love, my 02 1150RT. Thanks in many ways to the wise folks here, I know every nook and cranny of her, and feel very self-reliant. What, indeed, would I do if I bought a Wethead? Be reduced to finding a dealer because my shock didn't adjust?

 

To each his own.

Edited by Sam Taylor
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Give me a break! You think oilheads including an RT are hard to service? Get yourself an FJR and you will curse your RT tupperware no more for a fact! My FJR is a '10 which makes it a generation 2 machine and I thought it was hard to work on and then I helped my neighbor replace the left side panel on his '15 generation 3 FJR and I thought my gen2 was bad, not no more! Any oilhead is a piece of cake in comparison. Valve checks on an FJR are every 26K miles but if an adjustment is necessary I figure it's a two day job, easy. I can do my valves on my R1100RS in one hour while the oil is draining for an oil change. I can have all the tupperware off including the gas tank in 20 minutes. My '04RT (sold) only took about 20 minutes to remove the tupperware, with a power screw driver.. Oilheads are just easy to work with. Maybe not as easy as an airhead but still easy compared to other brands. I don't know about a wethead. Of course the wethead does have a wet clutch which would greatly improve ease of service compared to the dry clutch and no more input shaft spline lube jobs so that's an improvement. In many ways I miss my '04RT and kind of wish I hadn't made the switch.

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For the reputation that BMW motorcycles have, what do they make them so dang complicated to service? Never mind, rant over.

 

Compared to what?

And, no offense, but a bike neglected and left outside to die, well, especially one as old as an R 1100?

No brainer that $$$ may be needed to replace and maintain bike/parts properly.

Most people I know have a 100 to 1 ratio of time spent riding to time spent maintaining.

Or better.

My K 1200 '03 GT it was more like 500 to 1.

If it is all fixed up and running well, probably going to give you a better riding experience than any bike from its era.

If it is all fixed up, properly, from that baseline it gets easier to do.

 

Host a Tech Day.

I know it has become a thing of the past, but these bikes are easy to deal with and Tech Days allow

you to learn a lot in a short time.

Best wishes.

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The tupperware definitely sucks. Way too many screws. But a lot of hard to service areas on other bikes are easy on the RT. Overall, bikes (and cars) never seem to be designed with the DIY user in mind. They are just for the professional mechanic with a heated workshop and a cabinet full of special tools.

 

There is a lot of bad design everywhere. To replace the headlight bulb on my Subaru Outback, I have to peel back the wheelwell plastic, twist open a seal cap through an opening as wide as my hand and access the bulb and locking clip completely blind. It always dies in winter when the temp is below 20F and my fingers are raw by the time I'm done. The process takes about an hour for me. That's stupid for a bulb.

 

And don't get me started on the last 2 cylinders of my Ram 1500. It's all the way under the dashboard so working under the hood is a sprawled out knuckle duster blind effort.

 

OTOH, a naked bike like my Enfield Bullet C500 is easy to work on but weird and low tech.

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BMW could have engineered the bodywork removal better, I think.

 

Ok, you're up... how would you have done it? Using a zipper? Velcro? You have the option to remove the bodywork and leave it off... how appealing is that? If you want and attractive motorcycle with functional bady panels that dont fly off they need to be secured in a well engineered fashion.... the RT fastners accomplish that.

 

 

 

Edited by Craig G.
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BMW could have engineered the bodywork removal better, I think.

 

Ok, you're up... how would you have done it? Using a zipper? Velcro? You have the option to remove the bodywork and leave it off... how apealing is that? If you want and attractive motorcycle with functional bady panels that dont fly off they need to be secured in a well engineered fashion.... the RT fastners accomplish that.

 

 

My 1st generation Yamaha R1 uses half turn screws that lock the fairing very securely. It never gets loose or vibrates, even at strato speeds and the parts comes off in manageable sizes with 4 - 6 screws unlike the 15-18 on the RT. So it can definitely be done, if there is a smart engineer at the helm, one who works on bikes and understands the problem.

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Fantastic to see Sam Taylor in his atavar photo riding without a helmet.

If only....here in the EU. You'd get nailed by the Tráfico within ten minutes.

 

And yes, remove the tank to access the battery ? Whaaa ?

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Why do you need to access the battery?

I can't see a problem with that particular aspect of the design.

Let's face it the bike has remote power take off points and even if it didn't, why do you need such 'ready use access to an item that needs no service?

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Why do you need to access the battery?

I can't see a problem with that particular aspect of the design.

Let's face it the bike has remote power take off points and even if it didn't, why do you need such 'ready use access to an item that needs no service?

For a dead battery. I used to live in an apartment and didn't have the luxury of charging the battery from a wall socket in the underground lot. I had to remove the battery every winter and charge it in my apartment. The task took 5 minutes on my R1 and 30 minutes on my RT.

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Surely that would fall at the same time as you did your service work? So the fairing and tank are off for TB clean and balancing etc? so it is no extra time.

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BMW could have engineered the bodywork removal better, I think.

 

Ok, you're up... how would you have done it? Using a zipper? Velcro? You have the option to remove the bodywork and leave it off... how appealing is that? If you want and attractive motorcycle with functional bady panels that dont fly off they need to be secured in a well engineered fashion.... the RT fastners accomplish that.

 

 

I had a feeling someone would ask.

 

My '94 RS used some of that super-velcro stuff (thick, with little balls on the end of the bristles), in addition to a few screws. I think, though, that this became problematic as BMW changed the later RSs to use more screws and less velcro--to0 easy to rip the velcro pieces off the plastic, I guess.

 

Perhaps some combination of the two, screws and velcro, would be ideal. I've found out the hard way that the RT doesn't really need all the screws it has already...the two near the cylinder heads and the three by the footpegs come to mind. Several times over the years after a dealer had the bike I'd discover them missing, but to no detriment--except to the dealer's reputation.

 

Anyway, I don't deny that I can get the panels off and on in a pretty quick hurry...it's just that I find it tedious. Perhaps if the service intervals were 24K instead of 6K I'd be less bitchy. But I'm lazy...I couldn't even be bothered to put on a helmet in that time in Arches NP, Alan.

 

 

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BMW could have engineered the bodywork removal better, I think.

 

Ok, you're up... how would you have done it? Using a zipper? Velcro? You have the option to remove the bodywork and leave it off... how apealing is that? If you want and attractive motorcycle with functional bady panels that dont fly off they need to be secured in a well engineered fashion.... the RT fastners accomplish that.

 

 

My 1st generation Yamaha R1 uses half turn screws that lock the fairing very securely. It never gets loose or vibrates, even at strato speeds and the parts comes off in manageable sizes with 4 - 6 screws unlike the 15-18 on the RT. So it can definitely be done, if there is a smart engineer at the helm, one who works on bikes and understands the problem.

 

 

Good God... what problem? The RT is a touring bke with a 6k mile maitenance interval, not a street legal track bike that may see the fairings pulled every few laps. Get a grip...

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Eckhard Grohe

Owned BMWs since the early seventies and they used to be easy to work on but became more difficult as the brand went up market and they became boutique bike manufacturers.

 

I particularly like the way the screws cross thread into the nuts on the tank. Doesn't fit quite the same after 19yrs of ownership.

 

Getting the battery out is needlessly complicated. If they had given themselves a bit more effort they could have designed something better.

 

 

 

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BMW could have engineered the bodywork removal better, I think.

 

Ok, you're up... how would you have done it? Using a zipper? Velcro? You have the option to remove the bodywork and leave it off... how apealing is that? If you want and attractive motorcycle with functional bady panels that dont fly off they need to be secured in a well engineered fashion.... the RT fastners accomplish that.

 

 

My 1st generation Yamaha R1 uses half turn screws that lock the fairing very securely. It never gets loose or vibrates, even at strato speeds and the parts comes off in manageable sizes with 4 - 6 screws unlike the 15-18 on the RT. So it can definitely be done, if there is a smart engineer at the helm, one who works on bikes and understands the problem.

 

 

Good God... what problem? The RT is a touring bke with a 6k mile maitenance interval, not a street legal track bike that may see the fairings pulled every few laps. Get a grip...

To each his own opinion.

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No PITA for me...

 

The joy of opening up my RT every 6k miles to do maintenance and checking him all over is only equaled by the imbibement of the excellent brews that I use to assist with the task.

 

This year will be my 16th year of ownership and using a progressive maintenance schedule, every 6k works out just great for me. I have a whiteboard in the garage with all maintenance required (and done) on all our vehicles.

2 years ago, DaRTh had all FI (inside and out) and brake hoses R&R'd and when I dismantled the tank, all new O rings, internal and external rubber, seals etc replaced. iABS is totally flushed every 2 years. I've also re-wrapped some of loom due to the original crappy rubber covering on it crumbling. Bike is kept on a BT plus and nothing "unknown" discovered so far.

 

Sure, my tupperware has "chip and seal" rash all over the front but I know that he is sound mechanically and only something coming from 'left field' will spoil the party :) !

 

Anality has its rewards y'know LOL !

 

 

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Ok, you're up... how would you have done it? Using a zipper?

 

I have this fantasy of converting my 2004 R1150Rt to DZUS fasteners. They worked great on the cowling of my Cessna.

 

The original poster has a valid point... BMW motos have some sub-optimal tradeoffs between function and maintenance. For example, the EVO brakes work well compared to non-ABS brakes of the same vintage. But the requirement to flush them every year, and the need for three hands to do it, makes the process a PITA. So, enterprising souls have developed work-arounds and special tools to make it less daunting. Similarly, the input shaft problem is a head-scratcher. The time and labor required to dismantle the bike is daunting, and the cost to have a shop do it is a significant fraction of the resale value of the bike. Not to mention the cost of the parts to fix it if you do find a problem. So, again, clever people have developed non-BMW-approved procedures to inspect for the issue. But, you still have a dilemma if you discover your input shaft has some play in it. Another example, the 3-inch piece of hose in your gas tank that has a limited service life. Never had THAT problem in my other fuel-injected motos. There is a long list of odd procedures required for our BMWs. And I suspect it creates two camps: people who find them endearing, and everyone else.

 

Cap

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The original poster has a valid point... BMW motos have some sub-optimal tradeoffs between function and maintenance.

For example, the EVO brakes work well compared to non-ABS brakes of the same vintage.

 

?? My 1150 with the servo removed is significantly better than when the iABS was working. I get better modulation and feel without the system.

 

Similarly, the input shaft problem is a head-scratcher.

In what way? We don't for sure know what has caused the issue, but it has nothing to do with this discussion of the intended maintenance of these beasts.

 

Another example, the 3-inch piece of hose in your gas tank that has a limited service life.

 

Not in the UK and probably Europe. (until now). Your Ethanol fuel is the problem there, and you can't blame BMW for that, as when the bike was designed Ethanol was somewhat a rarity.

 

 

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Here's a thought. This is supposed to be a community of BMW and Sport Touring riders dedicated to helping each other out. Not making fun of another because their particular level of frustration with some task is bordered by parameters different than yours. To chide or berate someone who simply (and clearly IMO), was looking for some support, some commiseration, and maybe a bit of encouragement, is not in keeping with who we are.

 

While many have been helpful, it seems this thread has also drawn in a few who have a tendency to pile on. It's not needed nor is it helpful.

 

As the owner of two 1100RT's and having put close to 200,000 miles on them, I know of the frustrations and sometimes looking at the way something was designed and asking, "Why," or even, "WTF." But the bikes flat work. And maintaining that sometimes takes some extra effort, from the owners and from those the owners turn to for support.

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Eckhard Grohe
Smacking those RT mirrors to remove them takes a toll on the spring clips that holds them on. Of course the clips are not available as an item.

 

This Honda part will work as a substitute for the unobtainable BMW parts, Honda Part number 88115-MT3-000. No personal experience but I read it here.

 

 

Edited by Eckhard Grohe
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Smacking those RT mirrors to remove them takes a toll on the spring clips that holds them on. Of course the clips are not available as an item.

 

Someone had an alternative "restraining system" using rare earth magnets in place of those spring clip baskets and pegs. Sounded good. May have been another forum.

 

Edit - Found it: Fix for mirror pod spring clips

Edited by Lowndes
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Anyway, I don't deny that I can get the panels off and on in a pretty quick hurry...it's just that I find it tedious.

 

It is tedious... no doubt. With these however

 

https://flic.kr/p/22Qms6T

 

I've gotten removal of the 16 screws per side down to about 90 seconds once the seat and mirror are removed. I find checking tire pressure far more tedious than panel removal now....

Edited by Craig G.
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I've gotten removal of the 16 screws per side down to about 90 seconds ....

 

Me too. :thumbsup:

 

But putting it back on is another story. I am always fussing with the screws that go into the gas tank, being ultra-careful not to strip them. So, I mess around getting everything started, and then go back around to snug it up. When I had more space in my shop, I would remove the Tupperware in the fall, and leave it off all winter so I could dink around on the bike whenever I had some time.

 

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One of the secrets to successful and easier Tupperware refitting is to install all the screws except the ones that go in the tank. Then check to see how the holes line up on the tank. Too far forward? To far back? Then remove the Tupperware and loosen the large bolt that holds the tank in place (lower right). That bolt fits in a slot on the frame. Adjust the tank forward or to the rear by whatever small amount will make the Tupperware bolts line up. Tighten the large tank bolt. Mark the position on the slot on the frame. I use a small punch mark as well as a thin line of white paint. This way, whenever you have to remove the tank, or loosen it to replace a battery or maybe run some auxiliary wiring, you can put it back exactly where it needs to be so all the tupperware holes line up.

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Very good idea Effbee...

 

Of the three RTs I've owned only one required special attention with the tank screws. I thought perhaps the plastic tank was deformed by alchohol in gas (can you say Ducati) but couldn't explain why others didn't have the problem. Something to look for in the future.

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One of the secrets to successful and easier Tupperware refitting is to install all the screws except the ones that go in the tank. Then check to see how the holes line up on the tank. Too far forward? To far back? Then remove the Tupperware and loosen the large bolt that holds the tank in place (lower right). That bolt fits in a slot on the frame. Adjust the tank forward or to the rear by whatever small amount will make the Tupperware bolts line up. Tighten the large tank bolt. Mark the position on the slot on the frame. I use a small punch mark as well as a thin line of white paint. This way, whenever you have to remove the tank, or loosen it to replace a battery or maybe run some auxiliary wiring, you can put it back exactly where it needs to be so all the tupperware holes line up.

After I have removed the tank for any reason, I leave that bolt on the lose side until I fit the left panel to the tank then I snug that bolt down. Its not going anywhere . Makes fitting those screws so much easier. I use the end of an allen wrench to work things into alignment.

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