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Suspension - out with the new, in with the old


AndyS

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Have any of you made the rather bold decision to remove the ESA suspension off your bike and replace it with non ESA aftermarket units from the likes of Wilber, WP or Ohlins?

 

The reason for the question is, although the bike handles OK, it is NOWHERE near as supple and forgiving over anything other than smooth surfaces as when compared to my Oilhead and indeed many other bikes I ride.

 

Thoughts?

 

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I installed Ohlins on my 2000 RT at 33k mi -- fantastic improvement in handling and ride.

 

I bought a used 2006 RT with 1500 miles and pulled the ESA shocks and installed Ohlins -- made it a much better bike with no need for ESA gimmick to cover up the poor damping of the stock shocks. Put miles on the '06 then swapped back the 1500 mi ESA shocks just before selling the bike and sold the used Ohlins separately.

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No, but I have thought about it. Ohlins at the moment does not offer a ESA compatible option but Wilbur does, so if you went that way you would hang onto the ease of setting rear spring preload and damping adjustments at the handlebar. The ESA Wilbur shock pricing was not too far out of line with the going rate for other premium suspension offerings.

 

That said when I put Ohlins on my '99 RT the need to fuss about and dial in the shocks nearly stopped. I only made adjustments for riding single or two up, road conditions were no longer a factor.

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Two things to consider....

 

First is that by 30K miles on my Oilhead the shocks were in bad need of replacement. Ohlins did indeed make it a better handling bike while riding very smooth. Money well spent in that case.

 

Second is that my ESA suspension on the Wethead seems about as good as it did when new. Meaning I don't know when it might need replacement shocks. It is conceivable that it may last longer than I will have it. The ability to dial up Dynamic sure gives a sporty feel. Road is a good all around setting. Soft is...well too soft. My only complaint. One thing for sure is that I won't go with a bike without ESA again. Simply not having to screw the &%($#* hydraulic adjuster up and down is a good enough reason.

 

I don't doubt a set of Wilburs or whatever brand will have replacement ESA shocks would be an improvement. But if the stock shocks go 80,000 miles or more it will be tough to pay over $2000 for shocks on a bike that old!

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Have any of you made the rather bold decision to remove the ESA suspension off your bike and replace it with non ESA aftermarket units from the likes of Wilber, WP or Ohlins?

 

The reason for the question is, although the bike handles OK, it is NOWHERE near as supple and forgiving over anything other than smooth surfaces as when compared to my Oilhead and indeed many other bikes I ride.

 

Thoughts?

 

Afternoon Andy

 

Are you running the same tire pressures on your wethead as you did on your oilhead?

 

If not then try matching tire pressures to what you used to run & see if it feels better (BMW has jacked the recommended tire pressures up on the wethead).

 

Tire compression is a part of your ride quality so stiff tires degrade ride & harshens response.

 

 

 

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Two things to consider....

 

First is that by 30K miles on my Oilhead the shocks were in bad need of replacement. Ohlins did indeed make it a better handling bike while riding very smooth. Money well spent in that case.

 

Second is that my ESA suspension on the Wethead seems about as good as it did when new. Meaning I don't know when it might need replacement shocks. It is conceivable that it may last longer than I will have it. The ability to dial up Dynamic sure gives a sporty feel. Road is a good all around setting. Soft is...well too soft. My only complaint. One thing for sure is that I won't go with a bike without ESA again. Simply not having to screw the &%($#* hydraulic adjuster up and down is a good enough reason.

 

I don't doubt a set of Wilburs or whatever brand will have replacement ESA shocks would be an improvement. But if the stock shocks go 80,000 miles or more it will be tough to pay over $2000 for shocks on a bike that old!

I have 84K on a 2 year old wethead. I'm wondering if I should be replacing shocks sooner rather than later. How can I tell? I have no access to either a better rider than me, or to a demo bike. My dealer has them, but no factory low units which I need because I'm vertically challenged.

 

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I have 84K on a 2 year old wethead. I'm wondering if I should be replacing shocks sooner rather than later. How can I tell? I have no access to either a better rider than me, or to a demo bike. My dealer has them, but no factory low units which I need because I'm vertically challenged.

 

If you are happy with it, leave it alone. You would start to notice if the system was needing work. Folk will always tell you that you 'can' or 'should' replace, but you can tell by feedback from the bike. Is the suspension performing satisfactory? Is it pogoing, is it wallowing, is it bottoming out etc. If it still feels good, leave it.

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I have 84K on a 2 year old wethead. I'm wondering if I should be replacing shocks sooner rather than later. How can I tell? I have no access to either a better rider than me, or to a demo bike. My dealer has them, but no factory low units which I need because I'm vertically challenged.

 

If you are happy with it, leave it alone. You would start to notice if the system was needing work. Folk will always tell you that you 'can' or 'should' replace, but you can tell by feedback from the bike. Is the suspension performing satisfactory? Is it pogoing, is it wallowing, is it bottoming out etc. If it still feels good, leave it.

 

I agree. I do not think we should replace something just because some say it is worn out a XXXX miles.

 

I have seen it written so many times that suspension wears out so gradually we do not notice it.

 

I would think we would and do. As was said do you notice anything in how the bike responds?

 

I always go back to cars on this kind of thing. How many struts have you replaced on cars? Why did you replace them? Either you pushed on the car and the shocks just pogo up and down and not settle after 1.5- 2 bounces, or you have seen fluid or a leak. Now I have replaced shocks on just about every car I have owned because I like lowered cars and aftermarket shocks perform much better then all but the highest end cars.

 

I did go all out on my LT and put Hyper Pro shocks on it and man you could tell a difference. But I was not on a fixed income and had some money to spend. And since they can be rebuilt I thought hey keep the stockers for when you send of the Hyper Pro to be rebuilt. Unfortunately I totaled the LT in the Badlands after 3 years of owning it so that never really worked out.

 

I agree unless you notice something leave them alone. At 2000 bucks for two shocks I am in no hurry to do mine. Don't get me wrong I would love some aftermarket shocks on my bike but you can buy a lot of gas and stay in a lot of hotel rooms for 2K.

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LittleBriar

I switched out the stock shocks on my 16RT for lowered Tractive units. I was able to retain the active ride system. It was an expensive project but I'm very happy with the final results. I can tell a slight improvement in ride performance over the stock but I'm not that experienced to really tell just how much. The stock set up seemed to perform pretty good for me. The main reason for the switch was to get me flat footed and more stable doing the slow maneuvers. That worked out great. On big plus with the aftermarket shocks is that they are rebuildable so when they get up in miles I won't have to replace the whole units.

Edited by LittleBriar
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I will say the ESA suspension is a vast improvement over the OEM suspension that was put on the R1100 & 1150 RTs and would not splurge on this upgrade until the damping quality began to degrade. It is interesting about the comments on service life close to 100K as the on my '99 RT the ride quality degraded around 40K miles. I might not wait that long.

 

I haven't noticed this so much on my '15 RT, but my '99 RT would chatter over the little ripples and drift wide out of corners and the Ohlins put that bike on rails. The Ohlins ate up tiny ripples, little and large bumps with easy and the chassis was never purturbed. The wife loved how plush the ride was and never made another comment on the $$$ spent for that upgrade after one ride.

 

On the '15RT I can get near to plush but the ride is terribly underdamped with significant chassis purtulrbance, and I don't like going much over 50 mph in that settling. When in road/sport mode it has very good chassis control with some harshness and the bike seems to hold a line coming out of turns with ripples. I just can't get to supple with the ESA suspension and that always leaves me wanting better.

 

There is a to each there own aspect here. For a lot of folks the OEM suspension is just fine, and I admit I may be over fussy so if it works for you forget it and ride.

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I am suspecting the damping settings on my particular bike. I will be getting it in for service soon, and hopefully they will cast an educated eye over that aspect of the front and rear shockers.

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I think the issue might be an compression damping circuit issue on these shocks. High end shocks typically provide both high and low speed compression circuits. Low speed helps in maintaining ride height and the high speed circuit allows for reacting to the jarring bumps.

 

Let us know what the service folks say :lurk:

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Sure will. That will be about 3 weeks away yet. None the less, it's still good to mull these things over.

 

Is there any visual way to check the ESA shocks to see the damping settings change - actually on the shocks themselves, (not the dashboard).

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Sure will. That will be about 3 weeks away yet. None the less, it's still good to mull these things over.

 

Is there any visual way to check the ESA shocks to see the damping settings change - actually on the shocks themselves, (not the dashboard).

 

Morning Andy

 

Yes, just pick a local road with dips, chatter bumps, some square edged pavement irregularities then go ride that road at a couple of different speeds & at all the damping settings. It should be obvious to the rider if damping changes are taking place.

 

If your bike is still new with low miles then you probably still have some stiction in the shock seals & piston area so a newer bike can feel over-controlled on each setting.

 

 

 

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...On the '15RT I can get near to plush but the ride is terribly underdamped with significant chassis purtulrbance, and I don't like going much over 50 mph in that settling. When in road/sport mode it has very good chassis control with some harshness and the bike seems to hold a line coming out of turns with ripples. I just can't get to supple with the ESA suspension and that always leaves me wanting better.

 

+1

 

Not to really complain because the RTW's suspension is the best RT OEM yet but its damping is not optimal. Like on earlier RTs it sometimes seems to panic and give up over irregular surfaces.

 

Old-fashioned, non-electronic, spring-spec'd Ohlins spoiled me -- the tires felt always to be contacting the road and ripples got swallowed. My 2c.

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While the Ohlins I put on the '04 were great shocks, durable they were not. I had to have them rebuilt in just over 20K miles due to rear leaking seal. They were both leaking again when I traded it in. So, I am not all that ready to jump on the aftermarket shock wagon just yet. I would rather look at having my stock shocks rebuilt.

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Have any of you made the rather bold decision to remove the ESA suspension off your bike and replace it with non ESA aftermarket units from the likes of Wilber, WP or Ohlins?

 

The reason for the question is, although the bike handles OK, it is NOWHERE near as supple and forgiving over anything other than smooth surfaces as when compared to my Oilhead and indeed many other bikes I ride.

 

Thoughts?

 

Do you have a late model RT with DESA? If you do your options will be limited.

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Hi Limecreek, can you explain why.

I am pretty sure my '17 would have Dynamic ESA.

 

Sorry for the delay.

 

Tractive is one option, but with limitations. You do get a new rear strut shock body, with "superior valving" - claimed by Tractive, but you have to reuse the preload and the spring assembly from the stock strut. That is one heck of a lot of money for a new shock body. I do not know what is required for the front strut of an RT, but I believe it is a complete swap out. You need to call Ted Porter and I just noticed they do not list the RT in the catalog.

 

It gets worse. Should you choose to go back to a manual set up, with a specific spring and valving tuned for you riding requirements and with a remote preload adjustment, you have to replace both the front and rear at the same time. You cannot replace just the rear or just the front. It throws a code and locks out stock DESA strut.

 

Wilbers appear to have a solution, but I'd check first. If they require you to reuse the the rear strut stock preload assembly, you will not get a spring replacement. You'll be stuck with the OEM spring -again it will just be a replacement of shock body only.

 

Choices right now, and as far as I've researched are Tractive and Wilbers (possibly) for a full DESA swap out, but with limits. A manual strut swap out I believe is possible for the RT but may result in an annoying dash warning.

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Thanks for that.

I went for a long ride yesterday, and spent a lot of time switching between hard and soft. I think I can now discern a difference. Not a lot, but some.

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Thanks for that.

I went for a long ride yesterday, and spent a lot of time switching between hard and soft. I think I can now discern a difference. Not a lot, but some.

 

 

Then there is something wrong Andy. Time to talk with the dealer. You should have NO problem discerning between soft/road, road/dynamic. The difference between soft and dynamic is considerable.

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Thanks for that.

I went for a long ride yesterday, and spent a lot of time switching between hard and soft. I think I can now discern a difference. Not a lot, but some.

 

 

Then there is something wrong Andy. Time to talk with the dealer. You should have NO problem discerning between soft/road, road/dynamic. The difference between soft and dynamic is considerable.

 

I agree with Terry. Living in the country is nice in many ways but the road my home is on is awful. It's an old oil-sand surface which has lots of rock over the top. Pot holes and washboard. The soft setting make all the difference.

 

Jay

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, good news for me. I had the bike into the dealer and at my request they did a re teach of the software. What a difference. The ride is now SO much better. I am so glad it is now working. It leaves me a little concerned about how many people who may be 'living with' a less than perfect suspension. I know the owner of the bike before me didn't keep it long. Maybe this was why!

 

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

When the time comes though, I'd still consider binning the DESA and fit a nice manual Ohlins or equivalent. Anyhow, hopefully, that will now be a long way off.

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Well that is good news. At least you are no longer so unhappy to scrap the OEM units right away. It seemed your experience was way off the mark and it was good to know it was in the computer's brain and not yours.

 

And yes even if now functioning perfectly I still believe it to be a little less than what can be achieved with an aftermarket suspension. But as I have stated I might be overly fussy (OCD?) so take that last statement with a gain of salt

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Exactly what did the "re-teach" procedure involve?

 

Basically the GS-911 recalibrated the front and rear level sensors.

 

I also think I don't remember but it will run the motors up and down on the DESA and calibrate those also.

 

Edited by LAF
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LittleBriar
Exactly what did the "re-teach" procedure involve?

I used the GS-911 to re-calibrate the level sensors on my RT after I installed the Tractive lowered suspension from BeemerShop. Very straight forward process and easy to figure out how to do it in the GS-911. It runs the motors to full extension/retraction and re-calibrates the computer.

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Exactly what did the "re-teach" procedure involve?

I used the GS-911 to re-calibrate the level sensors on my RT after I installed the Tractive lowered suspension from BeemerShop. Very straight forward process and easy to figure out how to do it in the GS-911. It runs the motors to full extension/retraction and re-calibrates the computer.

This is helpful, thanks!

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  • 2 months later...
Bill_Walker
Well, good news for me. I had the bike into the dealer and at my request they did a re teach of the software. What a difference. The ride is now SO much better. I am so glad it is now working. It leaves me a little concerned about how many people who may be 'living with' a less than perfect suspension. I know the owner of the bike before me didn't keep it long. Maybe this was why!

 

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

When the time comes though, I'd still consider binning the DESA and fit a nice manual Ohlins or equivalent. Anyhow, hopefully, that will now be a long way off.

 

I'm resurrecting this thread because I think my bike may have developed this problem. It seemed to be fine on my Weaverville trip, but seemed very bouncy when I rode it to the dealer for service upon my return. I thought maybe it was just that the bags (which are never empty on my bike) were off. But I went for a ride yesterday and noticed the same thing. Hitting what should have been fairly small bumps would almost knock my hands off the bars. And switching between soft, normal and hard settings made only a very small difference. Something sure ain't right! Now, do I take it to the dealer (it's under warranty, and I guess this would be covered), or buy a GS-911 (which of course has other uses)?

 

And the real questions is, what the hell would cause the controller to lose its mind like this?

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Bill_Walker
And the real questions is, what the hell would cause the controller to lose its mind like this?

 

And also, is it going to continue doing so periodically?

 

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Hi Bill

I wonder if it would be worth to disconnect the battery for an hour and see if this doesn't fix your issue?

Reason: As a Comms Tech I deal with lots of electronic equipment and it's quite common that equipment will get itself a bit screwed up over time. Normally a "re-boot" fixes that, but have seen issues where the electronics had to be turned off for a while as capacitors in the circuit can hold the memory up. So they need to discharge which takes a little while depending on the size of capacitors involved.

This also could be a software bug, so might be worth wile to get your dealer to check if there is a Software/Firmware update on your bike.

I have got an original 2014 from new, but have done very little riding since purchase, so mine doesn't have this issue (YET ???).

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Bill_Walker

Alfred02, that might be worth a try. I got a GS-911 (gonna need it if I ever want to reset the service indicator after doing a minor service, so what the heck) and ran the calibration, and then took the bike for a ride. Unfortunately, I didn't do a before-and-after ride comparison, so I'm going from memory. It seems like the recal helped some, but hasn't completely fixed the issue. Of course, it could be a purely mechanical problem with the shock absorber.

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