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Cam Follower Fell Off


Rogerl

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I have a 2013 BMW R1200R. The bike has 23,000 miles on it. In the spring of 2017 the bike had 13,500 miles on it. I checked the valves and they were a little off. I took the E-Clips off to remove the Cam Followers to check what size pills were in the cam followers. Thinking that I could swap them around to get a better fit. That was not possible. I went to my local BMW dealer to find new pills and new E-Clips because my manual said that the E-Clips were one time use and should be replaced if they were removed. My dealer had a VERY limited number of pills and I could not find the ones I needed to tweak the valves. I asked to buy new E-Clips and they did not have them in stock. The said that they do not replace them they just reuse them. I put the bike back together using the existing E-Clips. This spring, 4/6/18 to be exact, I checked the valves again and they were near the high side of the tolerance but they were still in tolerance so I did nothing with the E-Clips or the Cam followers. The bike had 22,043 miles on it at the service date.

 

Today I went for a ride and during the ride I noticed a loud ticking noise coming from the left cylinder. When I got home I let the bike cool down and then started it again. I could definitely hear a loud ticking noise on the left side. I pulled the bike into my shop and removed the left side head cover. When the cover came off parts fell out as well. It was the front intake cam follower. I was shocked. The E-Clip had come off and the cam flower came off the shaft and was inside the head cover. I found the E-Clip, the pill and the cam follower. The E-Clip was intact and not broken. I was lucky that I found all the parts. If the clip had got into the cam chain I would be in BIG trouble.

 

My question is do I need to replace ALL 16 of the E-Clips? I do not know what ones I removed when I checked the valves in 2017. When you guys remove the clips do you replace them? What do you think made this clip come off? I will look online to see if I can get them. I am scheduled to go on a long weekend motorcycle trip next weekend so I will need to get them by Friday. My local dealer does not stock them.

 

Thanks

Roger L

 

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Check MaxBMW's fiche. I would proactively change all of the e-clips. For an RT (same engine I believe) they are less than $3 each. Cheap insurance. Do you want to gamble on the parts going down the cam chain or fouling the cam next time? You got really lucky dude. I mean, there's no reason to believe that any of the others will come off if they've never been touched but you never know. Have you owned it since new? If not, how can you be sure the previous owner didn't bend them and just bend them back and reuse them?

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I have a 2013 BMW R1200R. The bike has 23,000 miles on it. In the spring of 2017 the bike had 13,500 miles on it. I checked the valves and they were a little off. I took the E-Clips off to remove the Cam Followers to check what size pills were in the cam followers. Thinking that I could swap them around to get a better fit. That was not possible. I went to my local BMW dealer to find new pills and new E-Clips because my manual said that the E-Clips were one time use and should be replaced if they were removed. My dealer had a VERY limited number of pills and I could not find the ones I needed to tweak the valves. I asked to buy new E-Clips and they did not have them in stock. The said that they do not replace them they just reuse them. I put the bike back together using the existing E-Clips. This spring, 4/6/18 to be exact, I checked the valves again and they were near the high side of the tolerance but they were still in tolerance so I did nothing with the E-Clips or the Cam followers. The bike had 22,043 miles on it at the service date.

 

Today I went for a ride and during the ride I noticed a loud ticking noise coming from the left cylinder. When I got home I let the bike cool down and then started it again. I could definitely hear a loud ticking noise on the left side. I pulled the bike into my shop and removed the left side head cover. When the cover came off parts fell out as well. It was the front intake cam follower. I was shocked. The E-Clip had come off and the cam flower came off the shaft and was inside the head cover. I found the E-Clip, the pill and the cam follower. The E-Clip was intact and not broken. I was lucky that I found all the parts. If the clip had got into the cam chain I would be in BIG trouble.

 

My question is do I need to replace ALL 16 of the E-Clips? I do not know what ones I removed when I checked the valves in 2017. When you guys remove the clips do you replace them? What do you think made this clip come off? I will look online to see if I can get them. I am scheduled to go on a long weekend motorcycle trip next weekend so I will need to get them by Friday. My local dealer does not stock them.

 

Thanks

Roger L

 

Morning Roger L

 

When you guys remove the clips do you replace them?-- Yes & no-- I replace only if I think I might have distorted the clip. As long as the E clip comes off smoothly & with decent resistance then goes back on with a good solid feel then I use the original. A good rule of thumb is IF in DOUBT then REPLACE the clip.

 

What do you think made this clip come off?-- I t-h-i-n-k the clip was probably distorted slightly during removal or reinstallation. Now whether or not you did it yourself, or it was already damaged at initial installation, or done during a dealer inspection is up for debate. OR, the clip was not fully inserted & snapped into place at last removal re-installation.

 

If it were my bike I would at least replace the E-clip that came off as it did come off once already.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I am going to replace all of the E-Clips. For the cost of them it will be good peace of mind. I bought the bike with 1200 miles on it so I am pretty sure that the previous owner did not do anything with the valves. While the valve covers and the E-Clips are off I am going to verify my chart for the pills. Hopefully I can find the clips and get them delivered before Friday.

 

When I saw the new design of the cam head valves I thought it was better than the hex head valves. The more I deal with the cam head valves I am liking the hex head valves better. With the hex head you and be as anal as you want while adjusting the valves and not have to deal with buying the pills or the E-Clips.

 

 

Thanks

Roger L

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MichiganBob

Good Morning,

 

What would you say are the pros of the cam head valve compared to previous configurations?

 

MB

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More Bad News

With the valve covers off I started measuring the valve clearances this morning. It was actually the top EXHAUST valve cam follower that came off. I checked the lower exhaust valve and it was in spec the top valve was WAY out of spec. I looked closer at the end of the valve and it is mushroomed over. When the cam follower fell off the cam lobe was hitting the end of the valve and it is now mushroomed over. The correct fix is to replace the valve. Replacing the valve is going to be a very big job. If I packed the area with rags could I grind the end if of the valve square and then put in an oversize pill? I know this is the sledgehammer mechanic way to fix it but it can not hurt to ask.

 

A very disapointed

Roger L

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More Bad News

With the valve covers off I started measuring the valve clearances this morning. It was actually the top EXHAUST valve cam follower that came off. I checked the lower exhaust valve and it was in spec the top valve was WAY out of spec. I looked closer at the end of the valve and it is mushroomed over. When the cam follower fell off the cam lobe was hitting the end of the valve and it is now mushroomed over. The correct fix is to replace the valve. Replacing the valve is going to be a very big job. If I packed the area with rags could I grind the end if of the valve square and then put in an oversize pill? I know this is the sledgehammer mechanic way to fix it but it can not hurt to ask.

 

A very disapointed

Roger L

 

 

Morning Rogerl

 

Grinding that valve stem top perfectly square will be a real problem with the valve still in the head.

 

Any cam lobe damage from the valve stem contact?

 

Any chance you can post a picture of the damage? If we can see the valve stem damage maybe we can offer up a workable suggestion.

 

Maybe something like a Ducati valve shim cup on top of a reworked valve stem would work (have to compare valve stem diameters & real-estate issues).

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I tried to post a photo but it did not work. How do I post a photo?

 

Roger L

 

 

 

Edited by Rogerl
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Below is a link to a photo.

 

 

 

 

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt338/rogerl/Valve%20Problem/IMG_6192.jpg

 

 

Roger L

 

Morning Roger L

 

That looks pretty bad, would take a LOT of grinding to level the top out with very precise grinding to get a square valve stem top. That would then take one heck of a thick semi-sphere to get your desired clearance back.

 

No easy (reliable) fix-- Probably be easier & quicker to just bite the bullet & remove the cylinder head & install a new valve.

 

Maybe if you could find a (matching valve-stem-size) cup-style valve shim (like Ducati) then somehow grind that valve stem square, you might make that work, but then you still have a half-a$$ repair on an expensive new bike.

 

 

 

 

 

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Dirt Rider:

Thanks for the reply. It looks like the bike is off to the dealer. I think that this repair is a little over my head. I read thru my Haynes manual and there is a lot going on with the timing chain and the proper torquing of the head bolts. I think I am going to leave this to the professionals. Sad to think a $3.00 clip coming loose caused this. I am really sorry that I took the advice of that dealer and put the used clips back on. I am going to take the bike to a different dealer to fix the problem.

 

Roger L

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So I am thinking that I might try replacing the valve myself. With it being early summer the BMW dealers are probably booked for at least a month. Dirt Rider, are there any "gotchas" for removing the head? I will need to get a pair of the pliers to remove the throttle body hose clamp. I will need to make the pin to set the motor to top dead center and will need to make something to compress the valve spring to get the valve keepers loose. Are there any other special tools I will need? I am assuming I will need a new head gasket. What other gaskets will I need? When the valve was being hit by the cam there was a vertical force put on the valve that it is not use to seeing. Could the valve guide be bad?

 

I have the BMW rep rom. I will start looking that over on what is required to remove the valve.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Thank you Sszurszewski for posting the picture.

 

Roger L

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So I am thinking that I might try replacing the valve myself. With it being early summer the BMW dealers are probably booked for at least a month. Dirt Rider, are there any "gotchas" for removing the head? I will need to get a pair of the pliers to remove the throttle body hose clamp. I will need to make the pin to set the motor to top dead center and will need to make something to compress the valve spring to get the valve keepers loose. Are there any other special tools I will need? I am assuming I will need a new head gasket. What other gaskets will I need? When the valve was being hit by the cam there was a vertical force put on the valve that it is not use to seeing. Could the valve guide be bad?

 

I have the BMW rep rom. I will start looking that over on what is required to remove the valve.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Thank you Sszurszewski for posting the picture.

 

Roger L

 

Afternoon Roger L

 

I have only done 2 cylinder heads on the camhead engine so went by the manual (haven't done enough to find any good credible cheats yet).

 

Yes, read the manual (many times) then make sure that you understand the entire process (both coming off & going back on).

 

You will need some sort of tool to properly remove the intake boot clamp. You can grind an old set of pliers to look something the picture in the manual or buy or rent a pair of automotive front wheel drive axle boot pliers (usually local auto parts store has some to rent out or cheap ones to buy).

 

As for a valve spring compressor, you will need something (or have your local BMW dealer install the valve on the removed cyl head). For a one-valve one-time deal you can use a large C clamp with a short piece of pipe with a slot cut in the side of it to access the keepers. For removing I usually just put the head, valve side down, on a padded hard surface (like the floor), then pack a piece of old rag tightly under the valve, then put an old piston wrist pin (or deep socket) over the upper spring retainer & give the wrist pit a good solid whack with a hammer (they usually pop right apart). Obviously you can't reassemble this way. Or possibly rent a small valve spring compressor from a local rent-all or auto parts, store.

 

You will need all the gaskets that you remove so start with a head gasket & exhaust gaskets.

 

You also need to come up with a cam alignment tool (I borrowed one from a BMW shop)

 

You will also have to figure out a way to set the cam chain tensioner as BMW has a special tool for that (again I borrowed one).

 

It isn't rocket science but quite a bit more involved than an oilhead or hexhead.

 

 

 

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So I read over the manuals a few times and determined that I will not be able to get the special tool to set the tension in the cam follower. The BMW dealer is not going to let me borrow specialty tools. My only option would be to take it to a dealer to fix. The more I thought about it I figured I would give it a try to see if I could take a die grinder with a small stone and flatten the end of the valve. I can not break it any more than what it is now. I took lots of paper towels and masking tape and covered up everything except the end of the valve. I then mounted my shop vac nozzle over the area and set up a bright light and tried grinding. I got it 90% flat with the grinding wheel. I took off all of the towels and put the existing pill in and found I had .039" of valve clearance. If I bought the largest pill I would still be .004" over the largest clearance for the exhaust valve. I looked a the pills and they measured 8mm balls I can try making one of the pills. I found a 5/16 ball bearing which is .003" smaller that 8mm and started grinding. I put the ball in a 5C collet in my lathe and used a hand grinder and got it close. I made a piece to hold the pill and used the side of my fine grinding wheel to tweak it into the final dimension. The final dimension of the pill was .213" or 5.86 mm. The largest pill that can be bought is 5.7 mm. I put the pill in and turned over the engine by hand and it looked good. Now all I need is to get the new E-Clips and I can put the bike back together. Dirt Rider what are your thoughts for what I did. Do you see anything wrong with my fix. If you do let me know. You will not hurt my feelings.

 

Thanks

Roger L

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So I read over the manuals a few times and determined that I will not be able to get the special tool to set the tension in the cam follower. The BMW dealer is not going to let me borrow specialty tools. My only option would be to take it to a dealer to fix. The more I thought about it I figured I would give it a try to see if I could take a die grinder with a small stone and flatten the end of the valve. I can not break it any more than what it is now. I took lots of paper towels and masking tape and covered up everything except the end of the valve. I then mounted my shop vac nozzle over the area and set up a bright light and tried grinding. I got it 90% flat with the grinding wheel. I took off all of the towels and put the existing pill in and found I had .039" of valve clearance. If I bought the largest pill I would still be .004" over the largest clearance for the exhaust valve. I looked a the pills and they measured 8mm balls I can try making one of the pills. I found a 5/16 ball bearing which is .003" smaller that 8mm and started grinding. I put the ball in a 5C collet in my lathe and used a hand grinder and got it close. I made a piece to hold the pill and used the side of my fine grinding wheel to tweak it into the final dimension. The final dimension of the pill was .213" or 5.86 mm. The largest pill that can be bought is 5.7 mm. I put the pill in and turned over the engine by hand and it looked good. Now all I need is to get the new E-Clips and I can put the bike back together. Dirt Rider what are your thoughts for what I did. Do you see anything wrong with my fix. If you do let me know. You will not hurt my feelings.

 

Thanks

Roger L

 

Morning Roger L

 

Is that ball bearing hardened all the way through or did you grind into a softer area in the center?

 

You have changed the working angle of the rocker arm ball instant center to the valve top so you will probably get more wiping action as the valve moves to full opening, if the parts are soft then I think you will get accelerated wear (I guess that will prove itself out as you run it in & re-check the valve lash at short mile intervals)

 

That wiping action will probably put more side load on the valve stem so you might end up with some extra valve to guide wobble.

 

With a slightly smaller ball you are now placing the valve spring ball load on a much smaller area in the center of the rocker pocket but that will probably eventually wear in to a larger seating area so you will probably see the valve lash increase as that happens.

 

If you start to see accelerated valve lash show up then you might be putting some extra metal into your oiling system.

 

I hope it works out for you so keep us updated here on how it is doing from time to time.

 

 

 

 

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Dirt Rider:

I found some Hardened C60 8 mm steel balls in McMaster Carr. I am going to get a package of them that way I know the balls are thru hardened and the correct size. I will make a new pill and put the bike back together and see what happens. Hope for the best.

 

Roger L

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I called (3) BMW dealers today and none of them had the E-Clips. All three of the told me that they had never had any of these clips in stock before or had ordered them before. I was shocked. I have (2) manuals, the Haynes and the BMW Repair Rom and both of them state that the E-Clips are one time use and should be replaced once that they are removed. Either non of these three dealers had ever had to adjust the valves on a CamHead or they reuse the E-Clips.

 

The E-Clip that came off now is loose in the groove. One possible mode of failure was that the clip was not pushed into the groove far enough and over the year of running took a set and then came off. I now have (16) of the E-Clips on order and I am going to replace all of the clips on the bike. I will make sure that they are all seated properly. Hopefully I will never have this happen again.

 

I made a new pill using a 8 mm ball bearing tonight. The valve clearance is .012". When I get the E-Clips tomorrow night I will put the bike back together and take it for a ride. Hope for the best.

 

Roger L

Edited by Rogerl
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aggieengineer

I think you were absolutely right when you stated that the correct fix was to replace the valve. The question I would be asking myself in this position, is would I ever trust this engine again? For the simple peace-of-mind, it might just be worth letting the dealer handle it and guarantee the work. I would also take a very close look at the cam lobe to look for scratches. This is a repair you don't want to do twice. I wish you the best of luck, whatever your decision.

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Dirtmerchant

I don't have any advise to offer relative to the repair however, if I were you, I'd make the decision to make the temporary repair based on the following:

 

What will it cost you to have it repaired correctly by a BMW dealer?

Do you have an qualified independent BMW mechanic close by that could do the job for less?

What will it cost to replace the engine if the temporary repair causes catastrophic damage?

What is the diminished value of the bike after the temporary repair is made to an informed buyer?

 

I tend to venture a long way from home on my bike. A couple years ago a riding buddy had a major breakdown in the middle of God's Country 3 States and 700-miles from his home. It took us three hours to get a trailer to get him back to the motel and 4 weeks for him to get the bike home. My point is that, if it were me, I'd probably never trust the motor with the temporary repair.

 

Best of luck with whatever you decide!!

 

Rod

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After some sleepless nights and further looking at my attempt to "fix" my exhaust valve I have decided to do the correct thing and replace the exhaust valve. There is no way that I could leave my fix in the bike and sell the bike. I would need to replace the valve before selling the bike so why not just do it know. My motivation for my fix was that I could continue riding for this season and then have it fixed over the winter. I have called some dealers to get quotes for the job.

The only thing holding me back from doing it myself are the tools to tension the cam chain when tightening the cam sprockets. I do not believe any dealer is going to let me borrow these tools. With the cost of labor for this job I could possibly buy the tools. I looked online last night and could not find any place that had them listed. The two tools that I would need are the cam chain tensioner # 11 1 512 (83 30 0 444 292) and the ratchet torque wrench #11 1 514 (83 30 0 444 283). Does anyone know where to buy these tools? They might be too costly to make it worth my while.

 

 

Thanks

Roger L

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After some sleepless nights and further looking at my attempt to "fix" my exhaust valve I have decided to do the correct thing and replace the exhaust valve. There is no way that I could leave my fix in the bike and sell the bike. I would need to replace the valve before selling the bike so why not just do it know. My motivation for my fix was that I could continue riding for this season and then have it fixed over the winter. I have called some dealers to get quotes for the job.

The only thing holding me back from doing it myself are the tools to tension the cam chain when tightening the cam sprockets. I do not believe any dealer is going to let me borrow these tools. With the cost of labor for this job I could possibly buy the tools. I looked online last night and could not find any place that had them listed. The two tools that I would need are the cam chain tensioner # 11 1 512 (83 30 0 444 292) and the ratchet torque wrench #11 1 514 (83 30 0 444 283). Does anyone know where to buy these tools? They might be too costly to make it worth my while.

 

 

Thanks

Roger L

 

Morning Roger L

 

Call your BMW dealer about buying the tools (they are orderable) the dealer should be able to give you a price then from that you make an informed decision.

 

You do have a few options--

 

Do all the work yourself then take the bike to the BMW dealer for final cam timing (probably cheaper than buying the tools).

 

Or, wing it, for a one time one cam (I believe you can get by with just unbolting one cam gear) you can probably easily make the crank holding tool, you can make a timing chain tension tool from the original chain tensioner making the center solid with a rod or (something). Won't be perfect but should hold enough tension on the cam chain to set initial cam timing. (one cam should still be in factory timing as a reference so the chain tension tool only needs to hold cam chain fairly tight as you are only worried about the chain tension between the two cam gears)

 

You can use the cam hash marks & a straight edge (or one on each side of cam flats) to get initial cam position then use a cut down wrench to hold the cam while you tighten the cam gear bolt (first do an initial cam gear bolt tightening to get & hold alignment THEN pull crank tool & allow the crank/cam to rotate until wrench locks tight on other cam, then do final torque). This might be right on or off a little when you lock crank back to TDC & put a straight edge on cam flats to re-check timing. If off a little then move cam gear on cam & re-check.

 

This will be a little fiddly but it shouldn't take a lot of tries to get the one cam gear/cam position to properly index to other cam flat & TDC properly. (even if you only get it close then you can still ride the bike to the dealer to have them do a final cam timing).

 

If you do decide to try the cam-home-checking procedure then practice a few times on the original cam timing (as bike sits now) BEFORE loosening anything as it is probably pretty close now so see if you feel comfortable using a straight edge to check cams & a home-made chain tensioning tool to hold chain tension.

 

While I haven't ever done the cam timing without the proper tools I do believe I could pull it off without the tools if I had to but it wouldn't be quick or easy as using proper tools.

 

One other thought-- I don't know but probably worth a look/try-- I just wonder IF you could unbolt the outer cam carrier bearing assembly then tilt the cams enough to get the chain off sprockets with the chain tensioner & chain guide removed????????

 

 

 

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Dirt Rider:

Thanks for the detailed reply. From reading the manuals after the head is replaced and the cam shaft assembly is installed the cam chain and cam chain sprockets need to be installed. With the motor at TDC and the cam lobes lined up with the alignment tool the cam chain needs to be pushed tight with the special tool to take all the slack out of the chain. When the slack is taken up by the tensioning tool the sprockets are free to rotate to allow the chain to move. With the chain tight the bolts for the sprockets are tightened and everything is locked in place. The tensioning tool is removed and the hydraulic tensioner is put back in.

If this is truly how the procedure is to be done then how would it help to not remove the sprockets? The only way that I can see this working is to mark the location of the chain to one or both of the sprockets, and when you replace the cam assembly make sure that the chain marks are lined up with the sprocket marks. This way it should be lined back up without using the tensioner tool. Could this be done if only the top sprocket is removed? Mark the chain to the lower sprocket and when you put it back together with the lobes locked in place align the chain to the lower sprocket. Then attach the upper sprocket and pun the chain tight between the two sprockets and tighten the sprocket to the upper cam shaft.

 

I found that A&S BMW has the tools listed on their web page the Tensioner tool (83 30 0 444 292) is $139.47 and the ratchet wrench ( 83 30 0 444 283) is $38.36. Is the ratchet wrench a torque wrench? The manual states to turn the wrench for 3 clicks to tighten the chain. How does the wrench work? Did you use the wrench? The price for the tools are not bad.

 

Thanks

Roger L

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Dirt Rider:

I found a photo of the tensioner tool and it has an internal ratchet mechanism. The wrench is just there to turn it. I would not need the wrench.

 

Thanks

Roger L

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Dirt Rider:

Thanks for the detailed reply. From reading the manuals after the head is replaced and the cam shaft assembly is installed the cam chain and cam chain sprockets need to be installed. With the motor at TDC and the cam lobes lined up with the alignment tool the cam chain needs to be pushed tight with the special tool to take all the slack out of the chain. When the slack is taken up by the tensioning tool the sprockets are free to rotate to allow the chain to move. With the chain tight the bolts for the sprockets are tightened and everything is locked in place. The tensioning tool is removed and the hydraulic tensioner is put back in.

If this is truly how the procedure is to be done then how would it help to not remove the sprockets? The only way that I can see this working is to mark the location of the chain to one or both of the sprockets, and when you replace the cam assembly make sure that the chain marks are lined up with the sprocket marks. This way it should be lined back up without using the tensioner tool. Could this be done if only the top sprocket is removed? Mark the chain to the lower sprocket and when you put it back together with the lobes locked in place align the chain to the lower sprocket. Then attach the upper sprocket and pun the chain tight between the two sprockets and tighten the sprocket to the upper cam shaft.

 

I found that A&S BMW has the tools listed on their web page the Tensioner tool (83 30 0 444 292) is $139.47 and the ratchet wrench ( 83 30 0 444 283) is $38.36. Is the ratchet wrench a torque wrench? The manual states to turn the wrench for 3 clicks to tighten the chain. How does the wrench work? Did you use the wrench? The price for the tools are not bad.

 

Thanks

Roger L

 

Afternoon Roger L

 

Go back into the manual & look at it again.

 

TDC tool locks the crankshaft at TDC so it can't move.

 

Timing chain tool takes all the slack out of the cam drive chain (chain is LOCKED TIGHT to the crankshaft & tool keeps the chain tight to a specific tension).

 

The CAMS are allowed to move within the cam gears until bolts are tight, not the chain or gears being able to move as those are locked tight (chain & cam gears are locked tight in place by the crankshaft locking pin).

 

If you could somehow get the chain off & back on without loosening the cam gear bolts then the cams would still be in time AS LONG as the cams & gears were reinstalled with the hash marks pointing towards each other & the cam flats are in line. (marking the chain to cam gears would be a good way to reassemble without having to mess with it a few times)

 

Bottom line-- If you don't loosen the cam gear bolts then reinstall the cam gears to cam chain in the same timing as before being removed then you cam timing will be the EXACT same as it is now. (the problem is in getting the chain off & back on without removing one cam gear-- I don't know if that is possible).

 

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Dirt Rider:

I think we are saying the same thing. If the cam assembly will not come off without removing one of the gears what can be done is mark the location of the chain to both gears. Remove only the top gear. Remove the assembly with the cam lobes fixed with the tool. When the assembly is reinstalled in the bike align the chain to the mark on the bottom gear, install the gear with the mark on the chain and the mark on the gear aligned and you should not need the special tool.

 

I called A & S to see if they had the tool in stock. They sold their last (2) yesterday. There are none in the US and none in Germany.

 

Roger L

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Dirt Rider:

I think we are saying the same thing. If the cam assembly will not come off without removing one of the gears what can be done is mark the location of the chain to both gears. Remove only the top gear. Remove the assembly with the cam lobes fixed with the tool. When the assembly is reinstalled in the bike align the chain to the mark on the bottom gear, install the gear with the mark on the chain and the mark on the gear aligned and you should not need the special tool.

 

I called A & S to see if they had the tool in stock. They sold their last (2) yesterday. There are none in the US and none in Germany.

 

Roger L

 

Afternoon Roger L

 

If you have to remove the cam gear then no need to mark anything as on that one as you WILL have to re-time that cam. (sprocket to chain has no meaning)

 

On the other cam (I presume lower) & I presume you can leave that cam gear bolted to the cam, you really don't have to mark that one either as you just install the cam with the hash mark pointing up & & chain somewhat tight on the bottom run. BUT!- you might be able to save some time & work IF you paint mark that cam gear to cam chain as you s-h-o-u-l-d be able to line the paint marks back up & the cam should then be in correct alignment. If you loosen that cam bolt then the paint marks will be useless.

 

Unlike older BMW boxers you don't align anything on the cam sprocket to chain as that can go back on in any clocking (as long as cam bolt is loose) what you need to do is align the CAM to crankshaft & THAT is done by locking the crankshaft to TDC then locking the cams to have the flats vertical & hash marks pointing towards each other. Then you tighten the cam sprocket to cam bolt to hold it in that timing alignment.

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Update:

I went to the local BMW dealer and talked to the service manager. I told him what I was doing and asked to borrow their Cam Chain Tensioning tool. I said that I would leave a $150 deposit and pick it up Saturday evening just before they close and drop it off Monday morning when they open. He agreed to let me use the tool. I went to the parts desk and ordered the necessary parts to do the job. The parts should arrive Thursday or Friday. I will have the bike all apart and ready to re-assemble when the parts arrive. Hopefully I will be back on the road soon.

 

Roger L

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Update:

I went to the local BMW dealer and talked to the service manager. I told him what I was doing and asked to borrow their Cam Chain Tensioning tool. I said that I would leave a $150 deposit and pick it up Saturday evening just before they close and drop it off Monday morning when they open. He agreed to let me use the tool. I went to the parts desk and ordered the necessary parts to do the job. The parts should arrive Thursday or Friday. I will have the bike all apart and ready to re-assemble when the parts arrive. Hopefully I will be back on the road soon.

 

Roger L

 

Afternoon Roger L

 

Sounds like a good plan.

 

Lest us know how it turns out.

 

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Dirt Rider:

I am starting to get things apart. I made the tool for top dead center and the for holding the cams in alignment. I bumped the motor with the back wheel to get the cams lined up and I could not get the top dead center pin to go in. I took the tool off the cams and bumped the motor slightly and the TDC tool went in. I then tried to get the cam alignment tool on and it was close but it would not go on. I checked it on both sides of the motor and it would not go on either side. It was close but a little off. What should I believe the TDC hole or the cam tool? If the TDC tool is correct then I should re-align the cams both sides.

 

 

Thanks

Roger L

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Dirt Rider:

I am starting to get things apart. I made the tool for top dead center and the for holding the cams in alignment. I bumped the motor with the back wheel to get the cams lined up and I could not get the top dead center pin to go in. I took the tool off the cams and bumped the motor slightly and the TDC tool went in. I then tried to get the cam alignment tool on and it was close but it would not go on. I checked it on both sides of the motor and it would not go on either side. It was close but a little off. What should I believe the TDC hole or the cam tool? If the TDC tool is correct then I should re-align the cams both sides.

 

 

Thanks

Roger L

 

Morning Roger l

 

Well, you have to believe the TDC tool as TDC is TDC as long as the holes line up.

 

As far as getting the tool on the cams with TDC locked in-- That would not be unusual as they don't always line up (that is a cam holding tool

more than a cam-to-crank checking tool).

 

Also, keep in mind that you are not using the cam chain tensioner tool to pre-tension the cam chain so that can change the alignment a little.

 

See if you can lock in TDC, then put a wrench on one (or each) of the cam sprocket bolts then turn the cams with a little pressure & see if the tool will

go on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I put a wrench on each cam and neither would move. I will leave the TDC pin in and start removing the cam holder.

 

Roger L

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Update:

The head is off and the bad valve has been removed. The valve guide feels fine. I can not wiggle the valve at all. Now I will clean things up and wait for the parts to arrive. So far So good.

 

 

Roger L

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Can you post a picture of the valves and piston dome? Just curious about what one looks like with that number of miles.

 

PS - It's awesome that you're taking this on. I would likely do the same is something ever happened to mine. I hate paying people to do work I could do myself.

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Pappy:

There was some carbon on the end of the piston and in the head. I carefully removed the carbon from the piston but I left it in the head. I did not want to affect the valve seats. I am not good at posting photos here. I spent a while reading the instructions and I still could not get the photos to show up. I am using Photobucket. I you want to P.M. me your E-Mail address I will send you some photos that way.

 

Thanks

Roger L

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Dirt Rider:

How do you remove the old valve seal? The reprom shows a pair of pliers with round ends to grab the seal and pull it out. Can I use regular pliers? I am not trying to save the seal. I bought new seals.

 

Thanks

Roger L

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Update:

I got everything back together today and the bike started right up and sounded good. I took it for a quick ride and it rode and sounded great.

 

I borrowed the wrench from the local dealer and aligning the cams and tightening the cam chain was very straight forward. I followed the manuals and it all went together fine. The biggest problem I had was putting in the cam chain tennsioner. There is no room above the tennsioner to work with two hands. You need to push the housing in and compress the spring then turn the housing to get the thread started. It is a fine thread so you need to be careful not to get it cross threaded. I tried and tried till my fingers were getting very sore and I could not get the thread to start straight. I stopped and went to Lowes and bought a set of ratchet box wrenches. After I had one of the ratchet box wrenches on it I could hold it in with a screwdriver and the carefully turn it with the ratchet wrench. It went in first try with the ratchet box wrench.

 

The good thing is that the bike is all back together. I am glad that I fixed the motor the proper way by replacing the valve. The manuals did a very good job explaining what to do. I hope I never have to pull off the head again but if I do I now know how to do it.

 

A BIG thank you to Dirt Rider for answering all of my questions and giving me the confidence to do this job. Without Dirt Rider being there I do not think I would have had the guts to do this job. Dirt Rider you are a TREMENDOUS asset to this forum I can not thank you enough.

 

Roger L

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Update:

I got everything back together today and the bike started right up and sounded good. I took it for a quick ride and it rode and sounded great.

 

I borrowed the wrench from the local dealer and aligning the cams and tightening the cam chain was very straight forward. I followed the manuals and it all went together fine. The biggest problem I had was putting in the cam chain tennsioner. There is no room above the tennsioner to work with two hands. You need to push the housing in and compress the spring then turn the housing to get the thread started. It is a fine thread so you need to be careful not to get it cross threaded. I tried and tried till my fingers were getting very sore and I could not get the thread to start straight. I stopped and went to Lowes and bought a set of ratchet box wrenches. After I had one of the ratchet box wrenches on it I could hold it in with a screwdriver and the carefully turn it with the ratchet wrench. It went in first try with the ratchet box wrench.

 

The good thing is that the bike is all back together. I am glad that I fixed the motor the proper way by replacing the valve. The manuals did a very good job explaining what to do. I hope I never have to pull off the head again but if I do I now know how to do it.

 

A BIG thank you to Dirt Rider for answering all of my questions and giving me the confidence to do this job. Without Dirt Rider being there I do not think I would have had the guts to do this job. Dirt Rider you are a TREMENDOUS asset to this forum I can not thank you enough.

 

Roger L

 

Mornin Roger

 

Nice job--

 

Keep us updated on how the repair pans out long term.

 

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Rogerl -

 

Nice goin! Gotta send kudos to the dealer that worked with you, too. It couldn't have turned out better if you had a mechanical engineer to help you - - but wait, you ARE a mechanical engineer!

Thanks for a great thread!

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Yeah. Awesome job. Though I'd hate to have to take the head off of for any reason, threads like this show that it can be done. Thanks for sharing your experience.

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