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'09 with a stumble


Woodie

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So, been riding this '09 R1200RT for a couple of weeks. Just turned 100k. According to the PO, the bike was recently serviced (including TB sync).

 

There's a bit of vibration at idle, and at some speeds - I notice it in the mirrors, and they become less useful.

There's also a hesitation/stumble around 4.5k, which is disconcerting.

 

From another thread, they suggested bar end weights - which I'll consider, but that doesn't address the hesitation.

 

Your thoughts & suggestions?

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So, been riding this '09 R1200RT for a couple of weeks. Just turned 100k. According to the PO, the bike was recently serviced (including TB sync).

 

There's a bit of vibration at idle, and at some speeds - I notice it in the mirrors, and they become less useful.

There's also a hesitation/stumble around 4.5k, which is disconcerting.

 

From another thread, they suggested bar end weights - which I'll consider, but that doesn't address the hesitation.

 

Your thoughts & suggestions?

 

Morning Woodie

 

The late 2008 & 2009 1200RT had a pretty stable fueling systems with very few weak spots or hesitations. (so something is definitely wrong with your bike).

 

As far as idle vibration goes, that will probably come & go as the idle-self adjusts & the idle engine load changes.

 

The higher RPM buzz periods, handlebar buzz, & mirror blurring is definitely there in a couple of operating ranges & that can be tamed a little with heavier bar end weights and/or removing one bolt in each handlebar attachment then shimming the bars up on the remining 3 bolts with very thin spacer washers (turns the bars into tuned absorbers)-- Look at the camhead bike to see what handlebar bolt to remove.

 

Also, as you get more used to riding the bike you will lighten up your grip on the bars & that will also help the bar buzzing input.

 

Now on the 4.5K hesitation/stumble issue-- THAT, can be a number of things so finding it will be difficult without you supplying WAYYYYYY more information on that hesitation/stumble. Such as when (hot/cold/ in between), always there, sometimes there, etc, how long (after startup) riding it before it shows up, can you ALWAYS reproduce it? Was it there when you bought the bike? Is it there only at WOT or does it only take 3/4 throttle to appear?

 

Was it there & unrepairable on the bike & that was the reason it was sold?

 

WHY, According to the PO, was the bike was recently serviced (including TB sync)-- To cure a hesitation issue, just to do it, or ?????

 

It could be as simple as a cracked spark plug, or a stick coil acting up or as complicated as a burnt valve or cracked Throttle Body cam, or a knock sensor acting up, or ???????

 

If you have no history on the bike & can't trust the info that was represented when buying the bike then you will probably have to start at the beginning & re-do the TB sync, put a GS-911 on that bike & look for any & all stored failure codes, check o2 sensor connections, check valve lash, possibly run a hot engine compression check, basically verify that all is correct & working as it should.

 

You might even end up finding a stick coil(s) to swap in as a test (no real good stick coils tests other than substitution)

 

Probably not the lower stick coils as they pretty well become ineffective above 4K.

 

We can probably help you but working over the internet takes a LOT dedication from your side. Finding high RPM hesitations is difficult enough when leaning over the bike & working on it so you can imagine how difficult it will be working remotely through the internet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ok, I'll play w/ the shimming/bolts, I haven't had to do that in the past.

 

Grip? lol - tightness is not an issue. Just pure joy! (but if I drove faster, then I wouldn't need the mirrors at all, and then I wouldn't be concerned about that vibration??)

 

PO mentioned that the bike was "running better" after the sync/service. He did most of the service himself, as evidenced by the documentation in the manual. (Considering the other things I saw in his garage, I'm pretty confident in his mechanical abilities)

 

Sounds like close examination, followed by TB sync are the first steps.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

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St0nkingByte

I had a similar issue with stumbling during acceleration on 05 RT and it ended up needing new spark plugs.

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Along with what DR said, I'd check the TB sync vacuum plugs...

 

Evening NickInSac

 

That won't make much difference on the computer controlled 1200 engine.

 

At idle an open vacuum nipple will just be compensated out by the independent controlled stepper motor on that TB.

 

At 4500 RPM's that very small nipple hole lets so little air in compared the open large throttle plate that it won't have any effect at all.

 

Maybe at just above idle on initial ride-away, or at almost closed steady throttle, then you might see a little effect.

 

 

 

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Played a little today... Warm engine, under load, but not wot, a little hesitation. Not always repeatable. One time there was even a little sitting, when holding throttle steady.

 

It occurred to me, I put '87 octane in. Maybe I'll put in up to speed for, and then re-examine. Might still do a TBS on Saturday, since it's going to rain.

 

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Dave_in_TX
Played a little today... Warm engine, under load, but not wot, a little hesitation. Not always repeatable. One time there was even a little sitting, when holding throttle steady.

 

It occurred to me, I put '87 octane in. Maybe I'll put in up to speed for, and then re-examine. Might still do a TBS on Saturday, since it's going to rain.

 

It may not be the problem but the minimum recommended octane for the 09 is mid-grade (89)

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Argh. Phone typing, and not reading what it wrote for me.

 

Going to switching up the gas, and see what how it behaves is what I meant to write. 89 octane? The manual says 98 Roz, which is apparently US 91 octane. I hesitate to ask, since it drive a hugely long thread in another forum. (Almost like an oil thread!)

 

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Played a little today... Warm engine, under load, but not wot, a little hesitation. Not always repeatable. One time there was even a little sitting, when holding throttle steady.

 

It occurred to me, I put '87 octane in. Maybe I'll put in up to speed for, and then re-examine. Might still do a TBS on Saturday, since it's going to rain.

 

 

Morning Woodie

 

If you had an earlier 1200RT then I would definitely say that 87 octane fuel could cause the hesitation. By 2009 BMW that was supposedly programed out on the BMW 1200RT's.

 

There was a BMW service bulletin on the 2005-2007 1200 bikes about low octane fuel & a hesitation. " TEMPORARY OR SPORADIC FLAT SPOT WHEN ACCELERATING FROM CRUISE AT ABOUT 75MPH. SOMETIMES THERE IS A LITTLE HESITATION NOTICED. PROBLEM OCCURS ESPECIALLY AT HIGH TEMPERATURES AND LOWER FUEL QUALITY. PROBLEM WAS NOTICED AFTER UPDATE REGARDING THE KNOCKING CONTROL".

 

I still have an early 2009 1200RT & have used low octane fuel a few times as I desperately needed fuel & all that was available was regular. Never noticed engine had a hesitation with the low octane (just lower performance & definitely lower fuel mileage). The BMW 1200 hexhead engine fueling control has a good responsive knock sensor on each cylinder so can operate on lower octane fuel without engine damage but it sure pulls a lot of spark advance out.

 

It's easy enough to run the low octane fuel out of your tank then try some higher octane to see if that reduces eliminates the hesitation.

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Oh. So to try out a fix my problem, I need to go for a long ride?? ;)

 

That makes me so....sad???

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Played a little today... Warm engine, under load, but not wot, a little hesitation. Not always repeatable. One time there was even a little sitting, when holding throttle steady.

 

It occurred to me, I put '87 octane in. Maybe I'll put in up to speed for, and then re-examine. Might still do a TBS on Saturday, since it's going to rain.

 

 

Morning Woodie

 

When you look at the TB adjustment DO NOT mess with the idle screws as those are set & locked & should never be messed with. (very/very/very difficult to try to re-set them)

 

Only adjust above idle 1400-1800 RPM range.

 

BMW manual says to check the cross side balance at idle (max allowable difference is 25 mbar).

 

What ever difference that you measure cross side at idle should be carried up into the 1400-1800 RPM adjustment.

 

So if (using a liquid manometer) you have a 2" higher fluid column on the R/H side at idle then at 1400-1800 RPM you should still have a 2" higher fluid column on the R/H side.

 

Some do it the book way & others simply set the 1400-1800 RPM equal side to side.

 

But, before doing the TB adjustment you should really check the valve lash as that can effect the TB balance.

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Quick update: Filled up w/ 93 octane...1/2 way through that tank...haven't been able to replicate the flat-spot. Still a little buzzy at certain load/rpm spots, but it's really the mirrors, with nothing from the pegs, and little in the grips. So I think vibration is in the acceptable range. I did not do a TBS...will likely wait until the next service interval, and have the dealership do it all (and take a close look at it, lmk what things are in my future for repairs/maintenance)

 

Thanks all.

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Quick update: Filled up w/ 93 octane...1/2 way through that tank...haven't been able to replicate the flat-spot. Still a little buzzy at certain load/rpm spots, but it's really the mirrors, with nothing from the pegs, and little in the grips. So I think vibration is in the acceptable range. I did not do a TBS...will likely wait until the next service interval, and have the dealership do it all (and take a close look at it, lmk what things are in my future for repairs/maintenance)

 

Thanks all.

 

Afternoon Woodie

 

If that buzzy mirror blurring comes in above 3000 RPM's then it isn't throttle body balance related as those higher RPM buzzes are all mechanical in nature & related to the design of a large piston 2 cylinder solid mounted boxer engine.

 

 

 

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