I might name it Sybil

As in multiple personalities when starting.

My bike has gone around the loop of starting on first blip to needing the double stab to first blip several times now. My garage is heated but on the basement level with 3 walls below grade, so it is always cooler than the outside temperature in the summer I have thought the 10 - 20 degree change when pulling it out and stating it was the issue, because in the fall when the temperature outside is the same or cooler it starts up on the first blip. But, now I noticed the other day that after a long sit in the parking lot at work with ambient temperatures in the high 70's it needed the double stab start. The bike always starts on first blip when the engine is warm.

I've followed the cam alignment threads and wondered if that was the case with my bike, but if the cams were out of alignment would it not need the double stab all the time, regardless of engine or ambient temperature. I am wondering if it has to do more with the fuel mapping. Just not sure. Thoughts?

Mine's in the two tries to start mode...every morning now. Weather is hot and humid, usually 80 degrees with 70% humidity at 6:00 am. Seems like it cranked first try when the weather was cooler and humity lower. I have not checked the cam timing.

First try when the engine is warm, same as Paul De.

I've had this problem a few times, but not for quite a while. I think I've solved it by a waiting a good length of time between power-on and starting the engine.

I've had this problem a few times, but not for quite a while. I think I've solved it by a waiting a good length of time between power-on and starting the engine.

Happily, My 2016 consistently starts on the first try. I always stop the engine using the engine cutoff switch, and on startup I always wait for the power up sequence to complete before I hit the starter button.

I've had this problem a few times, but not for quite a while. I think I've solved it by a waiting a good length of time between power-on and starting the engine.

I definitely have done the wait for the gauges to go through their power up sequence before starting, but have found that it still might require the two stab start routine. How long are you waiting?

Happily, My 2016 consistently starts on the first try. I always stop the engine using the engine cutoff switch, and on startup I always wait for the power up sequence to complete before I hit the starter button.

 

I've used the kill switch approach a number of times and waited for the gauges to settle, but have not done that routine enough to tell if it really makes a difference. My guess is that it doesn't make a notable difference beyond Sybil's personality swings, but I'll try it for a while.

Haha, maybe if I point the bike toward Berlin while wearing a Tyrolean hat and lederhosen it will fire up on the first try all the time. It would certainly bring a whole new meaning to the ATGATT thing!!

There's threads out there that indicate hard starting can be caused by the out of time cams. Check this thread out.

https://1200rt.com/index.php?topic=3384.msg36511#msg36511

My garage is heated but on the basement level with 3 walls below grade, so it is always cooler than the outside temperature in the summer I have thought the 10 - 20 degree change when pulling it out and stating it was the issue, because in the fall when the temperature outside is the same or cooler it starts up on the first blip.

I wonder if the intake air temperature sensor is getting fooled by the warmer outside air. Is it worth trying to start it in the garage so it's gulping air at the temperature the sensor is expecting? (Please don't asphyxiate yourself or anybody else if you decide to do this experiment.)

Good luck with it!

As in multiple personalities when starting.

 

My bike has gone around the loop of starting on first blip to needing the double stab to first blip several times now. My garage is heated but on the basement level with 3 walls below grade, so it is always cooler than the outside temperature in the summer I have thought the 10 - 20 degree change when pulling it out and stating it was the issue, because in the fall when the temperature outside is the same or cooler it starts up on the first blip. But, now I noticed the other day that after a long sit in the parking lot at work with ambient temperatures in the high 70's it needed the double stab start. The bike always starts on first blip when the engine is warm.

 

I've followed the cam alignment threads and wondered if that was the case with my bike, but if the cams were out of alignment would it not need the double stab all the time, regardless of engine or ambient temperature. I am wondering if it has to do more with the fuel mapping. Just not sure. Thoughts?

My double start attempts all ended after my first valve and cam timing adjustment. I'll not go so far as to claim it as a cause but....

Stooie,

I thought the same thing that the temp sensor was not acclimated after pulling it out of the garage before starting, except that after sitting on an outdoor parking lot for 8 hrs, it can at times require the double stab start.

Limecreek,

Before cam and spark sensor alignment was your need for the double stab start an always event or did you have periods where it would fire on a single blip. My bike will go days/weeks in either of these modes from a cold start up, but always a single blip on a warm engine?

This sounds daffy, but am now wondering if something like one of my cam gears, or spark sesor, is able to slightly move in and out of alignment.

Haha, maybe if I point the bike toward Berlin while wearing a Tyrolean hat and lederhosen it will fire up on the first try all the time. It would certainly bring a whole new meaning to the ATGATT thing!!

Ohhhhh that's going to leave a mark! Must....get....image....out....of my head!

Yup Sybil it is. Back to first blip cold out of the garage!

Does the fuel injection system use a humidity input? It is the only other variable I haven't considered

I've had this problem a few times, but not for quite a while. I think I've solved it by a waiting a good length of time between power-on and starting the engine.

 

I definitely have done the wait for the gauges to go through their power up sequence before starting, but have found that it still might require the two stab start routine. How long are you waiting?

Until after all the warning lights except the one brake warning triangle go out. Which is several seconds after the gauges do their startup sweep.

Well the irratic staring behavior continues. I'm on the road for business this week so I didn't get a chance to see this recent change through to the binary first blip / two stab start up behavoir. Bike was sitting out in parking lot at work all day and when starting the bike to head home it was not first blip but a little longer cranking and it fired up. It was almost like I caught it in a trasional state. Too bad I didn't have the next day to check how it started as i had to pack and get on out of town.

This is such a small thing to fuss over it speaks to how well this new version of the RT performs in the overall, cuz I'm definitely not an OCD type of personality. And the upside is to use this event to justify the purchasing the jig to check cam timing.

I'm rhinking on tracking ambient temp, humidity and barometric pressure in an attempt to find some corellated reason for this variable start up nature.....and now I'm off to wash my hands for the 150th time today!

Or, maybe just shut up and ride!

I've had 2 wetheads. Both had a period where they were reluctant to start, either crank longer than usual or needed a couple tries. IIRC it started somewhere around 6K miles and lasted a couple of thousand miles (a couple of months). I store my bike in an unheated garage facing out, so I just wait for it to boot up, start it, and ride off - no warmup, but I keep the revs down the first few miles. Whatever the issue was, it worked itself out both times and never happened again. 32K on the first (sold), and 95K on the second (still riding it).