BMWSportTouring BMWST DB
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#1014386 - 07/12/18 12:11 PM Academy WTF?  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,534
Whip Offline
Whip  Offline

Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,534
Salida Colorado
As some of you may know I have been in retail my entire life and shoplifters are a daily issue.

This stuff confuses me. In thirty years we have caught over 5000 shoplifters and not once has anyone sued me. I know it happens but the Academy policy does not make sense to me.


Maybe there is more to the story?...there usually is.


I am their leader, which way did they go?
#1014391 - 07/12/18 12:32 PM Re: Academy WTF? [Re: Whip]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,857
realshelby Offline
Member
realshelby  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,857
Houston, Tx
It is NOT about the shoplifting. It is about physically touching anyone in the store. In our HEB Grocery stores if a customer were to hit an employee, the employee cannot defend themselves.

It is simply TOO EXPENSIVE to fight this stuff in court. Corporate America is afraid of any publicity from social media. It sure is a different world ......

#1014394 - 07/12/18 12:44 PM Re: Academy WTF? [Re: Whip]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,534
Whip Offline
Whip  Offline

Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,534
Salida Colorado
In Texas the law says I can do ANYTHING I feel necessary to stop a shoplifter and to detain them including tackling them. One of my employees wrestled a shoplifter to the ground and broke the thief’s leg in the process. If an employee is injured in the chase the theif is charged with assault because the thief initiated the event. Academy’s policy should prolly be tailored to each jurisdiction instead of a blanket corporate policy that may not make sense everywhere.

Last edited by Whip; 07/12/18 02:57 PM.

I am their leader, which way did they go?
#1014397 - 07/12/18 12:56 PM Re: Academy WTF? [Re: Whip]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 628
Antimatter Offline
Member
Antimatter  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 628
Maple Grove, MN
I'm guessing this is more about treating suspected shoplifters with a rough hand, only to find out later that the suspicion was based on other factors rather than witnessing an actual theft. I think most of these types of policies come as a result of an insurance settlement of some kind that involved non-disclosure, and the insurance provider's lawyers ok'd the settlement on condition that that the store issue a blanket policy against use of physical force in the future. And, to keep insurance coverage, the store is obligated to follow the policy to the letter or face having to find new coverage at a much higher rate.

#1014401 - 07/12/18 01:22 PM Re: Academy WTF? [Re: realshelby]  
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 17,705
Joe Frickin' Friday Offline
Administrator
Joe Frickin' Friday  Offline

Administrator
Member

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 17,705
Ann Arbor, MI (USA)
Originally Posted by realshelby
It is NOT about the shoplifting. It is about physically touching anyone in the store.

If the article is to be believed, then the key words there are "in the store." There's a lot more certainty about whether someone is shoplifting if they are apprehended with unpaid merchandise outside of the store; it may be that Academy wants their employees to have that much certainty before taking so bold a step as laying hands on someone.

Originally Posted by Whip
In Texas the law says I can do ANYTHING I feel necessary to stop a shoplifter and to detain them including tackling them.

It says you can, but it doesn't say you must. If Academy wants to let people walk out of their store with unpaid merchandise, that's their business. As Antimatter notes, they may have been stung by someone who was manhandled/injured inside a store without having actually shoplifted anything, and they've decided it's in their overall financial interest to be very, very careful about their rules of engagement.

BTW, does Texas law really say you can do anything? I'm looking at "shopkeeper's privilege", which says this:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Only reasonable, nondeadly force is used to effect the detention. Such force being justified when the suspect is in immediate flight or violently resists detention.

Granted, this is a generalized summary of shopkeeper's privilege, so things may be somewhat different from state to state. But are you really saying that Texas law allows you to shoot a kid in the back if he runs out of your store with a stolen candy bar?

#1014403 - 07/12/18 01:33 PM Re: Academy WTF? [Re: realshelby]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,266
elkroeger Offline
Member
elkroeger  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,266
Rochester WA
Originally Posted by realshelby
It is NOT about the shoplifting. It is about physically touching anyone in the store. In our HEB Grocery stores if a customer were to hit an employee, the employee cannot defend themselves.

It is simply TOO EXPENSIVE to fight this stuff in court. Corporate America is afraid of any publicity from social media. It sure is a different world ......




I would suggest the opposite. It's too expensive to NOT fight stuff in court (on a societal level, anyway). We end up with a society where the crooks somehow have more "clout" than their victims.

This is in that same category as the school "zero tolerance" policies that also have unintended consequences. Like the girl that got expelled for having a couple aspirins. Or the boy that suffered the same fate because he bit his pizza slice into an L shape, and then pointed one end at his mate, and said "look at my pizza gun! Pow!" All it does is demonstrate that the administrators who create these policies have no ability to exercise their own good judgement and common sense. And it makes me wonder why they're teaching our children, and earning more than the rest of us.

This particular guy that got fired, will have a dozen job offers by the end of the week.


I'm a man, and I can change, if I have to, I guess.

Eric
#1014409 - 07/12/18 03:08 PM Re: Academy WTF? [Re: Whip]  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,487
szurszewski Offline
Member
szurszewski  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,487
Portland, OR
I had a really cogent, well written reply to this, but then my browser reloaded. Too lazy to retype it all, but I will say:
In my hometown my favorite gun shop was Paul’s Pistols. Small shop, usually just Paul working there. ALWAYS he was wearing at least two obvious open carry guns. I doubt anyone ever tried to steal anything, because I am sure of the outcome and know I would have seen the results in the paper.

Very sad this guy was commended for stopping a gun thief from running off with a weapon AND ammo. Sounds like the employee did it without violence even - can’t be better than that.


*insert witty remark here*
#1014411 - 07/12/18 03:14 PM Re: Academy WTF? [Re: Whip]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,880
chrisolson Offline
glue
chrisolson  Offline
glue
Member

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,880
tucson arizona
Its about corporate laziness . That is, instituting a blanket policy so no work, logic or responsibility is involved by allowing (or trusting) staff to analyze individual circumstances .

Years ago, Walmart in Arizona (and maybe other states) instituted a policy of carding everyone when buying alcohol. Yes, everyone. Even those of us who by virtue of their obvious longevity on this planet could never be confused with someone underage. The cashiers had no option, they had to ask and you had to produce a drivers license or other proof of age.

An obvious reaction to the potential of being sued or caught in a sting operation selling to minors.

The policy was revoked in 6 months. Mostly I believe from loss of sales from disgruntled customers (like me) who took their business elsewhere. Don't believe this incident will have the same effect on Academy, but it may have some impact on their ability to keep or hire intelligent staff.


Chris
IBA 18417
85 VF500F
95 DR 350
99 R1100S
03 FZ1
#1014412 - 07/12/18 03:26 PM Re: Academy WTF? [Re: Whip]  
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 69
poodad Offline
Member
poodad  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 69
Wandering and wondering
I'd bet money Academy has decided they'd rather put up with shop lifters than to suffer an incident like the recent Starbucks incident.

There's also a huge liability issue for Academy in this situation. Suppose the manager would have been injured, disabled, or even killed in his attempt. Without a firm "don't pursue" policy in place, the employee or family could sue Academy saying the manager felt he had an obligation to protect the company's merchandise, and therefore they are responsible for his injuries, disability, or death. Academy could easily be looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal costs and judgments. The $500 for the gun pales in comparison.


Last edited by poodad; 07/12/18 03:36 PM.
#1014413 - 07/12/18 03:31 PM Re: Academy WTF? [Re: Whip]  
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,940
John Ranalletta Offline
Member
John Ranalletta  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,940
I know nothing about law in any state, but had lots of experience dealing with shop lifters working at JCPenney years ago.

The store was next to a high school. At end of the school day, kids would come into the store to visit the candy/nut counter mid store. There was one kid who "cased" the men's department jewelry department every day. I was suspicious about his intent, so I shadowed him. On my day off, other managers backed off and waited for him to steal something and he did. Those managers chased him out of the store into an alley where he picked up a brick, threw it and hit a manager requiring stitches.

In the old JCP stores with mezzanines, there were 2-way mirrors and managers were assigned times to watch shoppers. On my watch one day, I saw a women stuff for-sale clothing under her sweatshirt. I set off the bell system alerting managers to a shoplifting event in progress. Another manager approached her and she took flight toward a rear entrance to the store. That day, Pixie Photos was in the store taking photos of kids. The shoplifter bowled through that crowd of kids and moms, knocking them over.

The pursuing manager grabbed the collar of her sweatshirt and brought her down, her wig coming off in the process while she tried to shed the clothes she had hidden. In the scuffle, another manager came in to help subdue her as she wrestled with the first manager on the floor. In the melee, she managed to bite both managers, breaking skin and causing bleeding.

The cops arrived and arrested her and I took the two managers to the ER for stitches and shots. The shoplifter was out of custody before we got back to the store.

As a result of these two incidents, our local store policy was changed to "Alert law enforcement, but do not try to physically restrain shoplifters." Why put people in danger for a few bucks or even a gun.

PS - later, we were hit with gangs of shoplifters who were well equipped and ready to do violence. If you approached any one of them, the others would come to his/her rescue.

Last edited by John Ranalletta; 07/12/18 03:43 PM.

Free James Damare. Support free speech.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.010s Queries: 15 (0.002s) Memory: 2.8093 MB (Peak: 2.9986 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-09-20 01:53:26 UTC