2004 R1150R - New Problem

I hadn't ridden my Oilhead in about three weeks. After getting going, my ABS light starts flashing. I pull over, turn off the key, turn it back on and wait for the cycle to complete before starting it again. Same results. After about 10 minutes, the ABS light comes on again, flashing at about 1 KHz, general warning light on but not flashing. In the past, this has usually indicated a low battery. I put the bike on a charge (Optimate smart charger). It goes on full charge and is fully charged by the next moring. The next day, I get the same results. I run diagnostics on my GS911. I get fault code 16773 and it indicates that fault is not currently present. I ran the test with the key on but not running. I have contacted the previous owner about the age of the battery and I'm waiting for a response. After a day of diagnostics, I put the battery back on the charger and once again it is at full charge rate.

I have not removed nor inspected the ABS sensors. They are still attached firmly.

Other than the obvious question I have (what is wrong with my bike?), is there a good way to test my battery? I know the dealer has a device he connects that runs a full diagnostic. Is that something (or something similar) available to DIYers? I can go to the dealer next week, but it's a little out of my way.

Speaking of the battery, I am reminded that the battery location is similar to that of my '02 R1150RT (under the frigging fuel tank!). I recall installing an extension to the hot side battery terminal so that I can access it without removing/lifting the fuel tank. Are those still available and if so, where should I go to get one?

Other than a visual inspection of the ABS sensors, is there a way to test them?

Oh, the bike has a little less than 35k miles.

Thank you,

Hi Bill,

You can take your battery in to have it load tested (or buy/borrow a load tester). I don't have one so I just do some basic diagnostics with a multi-meter. Your GS-911 will be helpful as well.

Battery / Charging Check

Check your voltage level at the battery terminals with a multi-meter. A good battery will be 12.5 or higher. Perform the same test with the bike running and your lights/accessories drawing power. Anything below 13 when the bike is running is going to be in a grey area/problematic. The realtime values on the GS-911 should also give you a view of voltage with the bike running.

ABS Tests with the GS-911

I can't recall what tests (other than a bleed test) are available on the GS-911. See if it does a sensor drift test (tests the integrity of the sensors) for you.

Other basic things you can check....

Check your switches

A common source of warning lights for ABS are the switches (front brake and rear brake). Check for crud, pull the leads off and ensure there is continuity with a multimeter. Ensure the brake levers (in resting position) are properly triggering the switch. I don't think these are likely in your case as these tend to cause initialization (on startup) to fail.

Hi, Claudio.

Thanks for your response.

How do you get to the terminals? You have the same problem as I do (or worse with the body panels) getting to the battery.

I'll check the available GS911 tests with the bike running. It would be nice if it did all those things.

I hadn't ridden my Oilhead in about three weeks. After getting going, my ABS light starts flashing. I pull over, turn off the key, turn it back on and wait for the cycle to complete before starting it again. Same results. After about 10 minutes, the ABS light comes on again, flashing at about 1 KHz, general warning light on but not flashing. In the past, this has usually indicated a low battery. I put the bike on a charge (Optimate smart charger). It goes on full charge and is fully charged by the next moring. The next day, I get the same results. I run diagnostics on my GS911. I get fault code 16773 and it indicates that fault is not currently present. I ran the test with the key on but not running. I have contacted the previous owner about the age of the battery and I'm waiting for a response. After a day of diagnostics, I put the battery back on the charger and once again it is at full charge rate.

 

I have not removed nor inspected the ABS sensors. They are still attached firmly.

 

Other than the obvious question I have (what is wrong with my bike?), is there a good way to test my battery? I know the dealer has a device he connects that runs a full diagnostic. Is that something (or something similar) available to DIYers? I can go to the dealer next week, but it's a little out of my way.

 

Speaking of the battery, I am reminded that the battery location is similar to that of my '02 R1150RT (under the frigging fuel tank!). I recall installing an extension to the hot side battery terminal so that I can access it without removing/lifting the fuel tank. Are those still available and if so, where should I go to get one?

 

Other than a visual inspection of the ABS sensors, is there a way to test them?

 

Oh, the bike has a little less than 35k miles.

 

Thank you,

Evening Bill

Your battery shouldn't have any effect on your brake system as the 2004 1150 has the I-ABS braking system, that system doesn't do any diagnostics as far as battery voltage is concerned until AFTER the engine is started & the alternator is charging.

Your flashing lights don't tell us much other than that you don't have ABS braking available.

I don't have my I-ABS failure code chart available where I'm at right now but if I remember correctly code 16772 indicates one end internal pressure sensor failure so 16773 could indicate the other end pressure sensor failure (just a quick guess on my part).

Unfortunately I won't be near my shop (therefore my code chart) until the end of this week so you might try calling your local BMW dealer tomorrow & ask if they will look up that failure code up for you. (or call Module Masters & ask about 16773 code)

How do you get to the terminals? You have the same problem as I do (or worse with the body panels) getting to the battery.

Hi Bill,

In my case I built my own extenders with rubber covers to connect my fuse panel (power distribution). The RT requires me to remove the left panel to get at the battery.

A simple SAE connector would give you a means to charge directly and also allows quick checks with multi-meters. I prefer to use 10AWG or 12AWG when extending the terminals out but you could get away with 14 or 16 AWG.

DRT is correct. The GS-911 is telling you the code/root of the issue. If your battery was causing problems you'd have other symptoms. Deduce the code and go from there.

A 2004 should have a positive lug on the starter cover next to the power port. It's got a black protection cover over it with a + molded into it.

The negative post I believe is under the seat on the negative post of the battery.

I say should because all or many of the 2004 R's, RT's had them that went thru our shop in Calif.

In thinking about it I don't know if it was an option the dealer principle ticked off on the list or they all came with them .

Here's a picture link.

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?73548-Need-to-Know-If-and-Where-My-2004-R1150R-Has-Jump-Start-Lugs/page2

Scroll a bit to see the pic.

Also your static voltage on a battery showing full charge better be more than 12.5 as previously stated. It takes a battery with at least 12.7v to cycle the system to shut the lights off.

12.9 is more of a happy figure.

You can also look for a date code on the battery , when it was shipped 7-17 is July 2017 or D16 is April 2016 as examples.

You say you hadn't ridden the bike in three weeks. Is that with no charger plugged in during that time ?

Was the battery flat after three weeks ?

What brand battery ?

How long have YOU owned the bike for ?

Has the battery ever been allowed to accidently go flat ,say due to key being left on ?

If no charger and this happened, my gut almost always says replace the battery with a quality replacement and use your maintenance charger regularly as its use can double the life of a new battery.

Morning Bill

I still don't have a firm confirmation on that 16773 but giving it more thought that could be a front wheel sensor problem (did your GS-911 say what the code was?, on some codes the GS-911 will say what the code refers to)

If it IS the front wheel sensor code then look closely where the front wheel sensor cable runs close to the brake rotor for signs of the wheel speed sensor rubbing the brake rotor. (I have seen more than a few where the wheel speed sensor cable is not routed correctly after a tire change & rubs the brake rotor)

I was on the road last night & replied to you during a quick stop so didn't spend much time (or thought) on your problem.

With you reporting -- I pull over, turn off the key, turn it back on and wait for the cycle to complete before starting it again. Same results. After about 10 minutes, the ABS light comes on again, flashing at about 1 KHz,

The failure coming back after 10 minutes of riding is not usually pointing to a battery (or low voltage) issue as the alternator should have the system voltage raised enough after 10 minutes of riding to eliminate that (unless you are using the brakes continually with the engine idling & even then the 2004 drops the rear servo from running at stopped unless very heavy rear brake pedal pressure is kept applied).

On the BMW 1150R bike you can easily access the battery (+) post voltage, or jump/charge it, by simply removing the plastic starter cover (one screw) then accessing the large stud on the starter (that stud & cable goes directly to the battery (+) post).

You can test the ABS sensors at home-- First unplug them both then use an ohmmeter & check the resistance. Neither front or rear should show shorted or open & both front & rear sensors should be reasonably close in measured resistance. I would imagine you should measure the resistance somewhere in the 750-1500 ohm range (give or take).

You can also use your meter on the low voltage AC scale to measure the fluctuating voltage output while spinning the wheel (no real defined output but you definitely need a voltage output while spinning the wheels.

Problem is: to measure the wheel speed sensors you usually move or fool with the sensor pig tails & that can temporarily eliminate the problem due to moving a shorted pig tail rub through point or allowing an open to make contact again.

It is difficult to tell battery age from the stamped numbers on them unless you know what the date signifies as some (like OEM BMW Excide battery's) have the Sell-By date on them not the manufacturing or build date & other battery brands might have the actual manufacturing or build date stamped on them.

Hi, DR.

Attached is the fault code from my GS911 report.

I will follow your testing recommendations and report back.

Thank you,

Hi, Tri750.

Just checked, I DO NOT have that convenient power connection. Dang it! I will pull the starter cover to check.

The battery was NOT flat. I was able to start it without hesitation.

Brand of battery UNKNOWN. I recently purchased this bike (two months ago). I queried the P.O. and he doesn't remember when he put the battery in. I do not know what brand it is, but I do know it was installed by a reputable BMW dealer. The P.O. had ALL the work done at this dealer. I can check their service records to find when it was installed and what brand it was.

AFAIK, the key has not been left on, but who knows prior to me receiving the bike?

Regardless of the cause of my flashing ABS lights, I plan to replace the battery. I'm always nervous of a battery that's more than 3 years old. Yes, I know they can last much longer, but they seldom fail on me in the garage. I've just been putting off removing the tank for the first time untl I do the 36k service (in about 1k miles).

Thank you,

Hi, DR.

 

Attached is the fault code from my GS911 report.

 

I will follow your testing recommendations and report back.

 

Thank you,

 

Morning Bill

I was hoping that the GS-911 referenced the faulty system component. (for some reason when I woke up this morning I kept thinking 16773/=/ front wheel speed sensor)

Good, we now know it doesn't like the front wheel speed sensor input signal.

Place to start is to go over the front sensor pig tail (especially in the brake rotor area) to make darn sure that it isn't (or wasn't) contacting the brake rotor & now has a worn spot.

If the sensor pig tail is OK,

Next, look CLOSELY at the front wheel tone ring (reluctor ring that the speed sensor reads off of), look for any signs of damage, bent slots or deformed teeth, excessive wobble, anything abnormal.

If tone ring OK,

Next, make sure the sensor to tone ring gap if not excessive (like maybe from an incorrect front wheel install or missing wheel spacer, etc).

If nothing found so far then you will have to follow the speed sensor pig tail up to it's connector then unplug it & measure the sensors resistance & measure AC voltage output with a spinning wheel (see my post above).

If it comes down to measuring the front wheel speed sensor resistance & AC voltage output we can talk you through it as you need to work with it. (eliminate all else first)

A bad or low battery would be W-A-Y down on my list of possible causes of your brake problem. First you would have a stored code showing low voltage or low servo voltage. But more importantly, unlike the older ABS-2 system your more modern I-ABS system doesn't use a latching failure for low voltage (ie no ABS re-set required or even possible). If the system sees low voltage it can put the dash warning lights & shut the servo operation down on but as soon as the voltage comes back up it puts the dash lights out & goes back to working as normal (one of the nicer traits of the I-ABS system).

Agreed. This is not a battery issue after seeing that fault code, your GS-911 is telling us that it can't read the rotational speed of the front wheel.

As DRT suggests, this could be something mechanical (distance from the sensor to the ring) or an electrical fault. Eliminate the obvious first then work on the harder troubleshooting.

Check your front wheel for bad bearings or anything loose as this could cause a similar effect to a missing spacer but would be more intermittent.

Keep us posted. I worked on a similar problem on an RT of a colleague and we eventually determined it was a bad sensor.

O.K.

I had a mini-tech day at a friend's home who is much more skills and a better eye than I do.

We examined the sensor ring. There was no damage, no dirt not warped. We then turned our attention to the sensor. We first looked at the cable from the sensor up to under the tank. The only thing that was abnormal was that there was a wear spot in the sheathing near a zip tie. The wire insulation was still intact. We removed the sensor. The magnet still works. There was a small layer of grime on the face of the sensor. It looked like brake dust.

We then removed the fuel tank and found the connector. We removed the connector and measured the resistance on my friend's DVM. It measured about 500 ohms.We tried to measure the voltage and current while I rotated the wheel, but could not get a reading.

While the tank was off, I took out the battery to find out how old it is. It is a BMW battery. There were two "dates" on them. one was "4-15" and the other was "24-15".

Unconvinced that we found the problem, we put the bike back together and I rode home. Amazingly, the ABS lights did not come home. I didn't ride very far, but it was far enough for the lights to come on in the past.

I don't know if the fix is permanent, but I'm glad I didn't buy a sensor today. I don't mind buying tires and gasoline, but I would have been aggravated putting money into a system I would rather not have in the first place.

If I've missed something, let me know.

Thanks for the help, Claudio and DR!

Keep a close eye on things Bill.

The cleaning/re-assembly likely brought things back into tolerance but you still might have a sensor issue going on.

Be sure to do some proactive basic maintenance on the brakes as well (flush fluid/bleed test..etc.) in the event it was neglected by the previous owner.

 

We examined the sensor ring. There was no damage, no dirt not warped. We then turned our attention to the sensor. We first looked at the cable from the sensor up to under the tank. The only thing that was abnormal was that there was a wear spot in the sheathing near a zip tie. The wire insulation was still intact. We removed the sensor. The magnet still works. There was a small layer of grime on the face of the sensor. It looked like brake dust.

 

We then removed the fuel tank and found the connector. We removed the connector and measured the resistance on my friend's DVM. It measured about 500 ohms.We tried to measure the voltage and current while I rotated the wheel, but could not get a reading.

 

While the tank was off, I took out the battery to find out how old it is. It is a BMW battery. There were two "dates" on them. one was "4-15" and the other was "24-15".

 

Unconvinced that we found the problem, we put the bike back together and I rode home. Amazingly, the ABS lights did not come home. I didn't ride very far, but it was far enough for the lights to come on in the past.

 

I don't know if the fix is permanent, but I'm glad I didn't buy a sensor today. I don't mind buying tires and gasoline, but I would have been aggravated putting money into a system I would rather not have in the first place.

 

If I've missed something, let me know.

 

Thanks for the help, Claudio and DR!

Morning Bill

It sounds like you have found the problem, but I'm not sure that you have (permanently) eliminated the problem. As a rule, when it comes to low current type electrical problems unless you actually find the failure point then eliminate that failure point the problem usually returns at a later time.

If it returns giving you the same failure code then you should probably just buy a new/or/used sensor & replace it.

Keep a close eye on things Bill.

 

The cleaning/re-assembly likely brought things back into tolerance but you still might have a sensor issue going on.

Be sure to do some proactive basic maintenance on the brakes as well (flush fluid/bleed test..etc.) in the event it was neglected by the previous owner.

Thanks for the tips, Claudio. The bike was maintained by a reputable BMW dealer. The P.O. never missed a service. That being said, I'm coming up on 36k miles and it will be do for a brake bleed.

Question: Is the procedure the same as for the ABS-2 system I had on the 2002R1150RT?

Thank you,

 

Thanks for the tips, Claudio. The bike was maintained by a reputable BMW dealer. The P.O. never missed a service. That being said, I'm coming up on 36k miles and it will be do for a brake bleed.

 

Question: Is the procedure the same as for the ABS-2 system I had on the 2002R1150RT?

 

Thank you,

NO! The brake bleed on the i-ABS system is completely different. You have separate fluid circuits that go from the MC reservoir to the ABS module, and then a separate circuit from the ABS module to the caliper. They each have to be bled on their own. You will need a funnel with a rubber stopper that will allow you to create a little reservoir on top of the ABS unit when you are bleeding the wheel circuits. There is a detailed write up on this that someone else will link to or point you to.

 

brake bleed.

 

Question: Is the procedure the same as for the ABS-2 system I had on the 2002R1150RT?

 

Afternoon Bill

Yes & no--

ABS-2 system is different.

But--

The 2002 1150RT didn't have the ABS-2 brake system it had I-ABS (evo) braking system & those bleed the same as your current 2004 with I-ABS brakes.

O.K., good to know. Even though it's been a while since I've done this procedure, at least it will be somewhat familiar.

For those of you keeping score, it has turned out that ALL of the "issues" I've had with this new (to me) bike have been less than catastrophic (my go to position on "issues"). I've fixed the tail light bulb (although I need to contact Kisan about how to provide a "discrete 12v source" in order to calibrate the signal minder for modulation). I've become used to reaching down and lifting up the left foot peg in order to get my foot on the center stand tang which is obstructed by the footpeg lowers. I'm learning how to fill up the tank to stretch my range, although I still don't know what a reliable range is. It takes some time to put that final squirt in, let it percolate down, put another squirt in, etc., but I'm doing just that. In diagnosing the ABS sensor, I took off the fuel tank for the first time. I am now no longer apprehensive about doing this task and now I'm ready (mentally) to do regular services on the bike. I still need to dial in the throttle bodies. It is very abrupt right at roll on and roll off, but I believe taking my time with the TB sync will cure most of that.

In the meantime, I've put on about 1,600 miles and I'm really starting to enjoy this bike. I've removed the Cee Bailey windshield which cracked at the mounting bracking coming back from a 5 day ride. While pondering a replacement, I wanted to find out what it would be like without a shield at all. It's wonderful! This is my summer bike and I'm no longer doing long distance rides. In the winter, I have my R100RT which has great protection (and heated grips that are effective!). The light weight, nimble steering and clean cool air on my chest has reminded me what motorcycling is all about.

I'm learning how to fill up the tank to stretch my range, although I still don't know what a reliable range is. It takes some time to put that final squirt in, let it percolate down, put another squirt in, etc., but I'm doing just that.

Hey OlGeezer! In my experience, a reliable range is 160 miles to low fuel light, with an estimated 40 miles further to empty. However, some of us have modified our fuel tank fill tubes for extra capacity of maybe 0.6 to 0.7 gallon. On my bike, that stretched my range to 201 miles to low fuel light illumination. A few months back, there was some discussion on this at AdvRider. https://advrider.com/index.php?threads/bmw-r-r-thread.844612/page-295. The mod is discussed off and on between posts 5886 and 5930. If you continue reading further, you may be interested in posts 5943-5954 regarding the evaporative emissions system on a '02 R1150R.

O.K.

I had a mini-tech day at a friend's home who is much more skills and a better eye than I do.

 

...........

The only thing that was abnormal was that there was a wear spot in the sheathing near a zip tie. The wire insulation was still intact.

..........

If your issue returns I would suspect a severed wire in the damaged section that was found.

Insulation will stretch while a conductor will tear and in the course of inspection of the cable continuity could have been restored.

Question on the ABS system on the 2004 rt. I'm the orignial owner, always dealer serviced.

Brought it in for a 30k service. I wanted to get the brake fluid changed as part of the service- the dealer actually talked me out of having that done. They said the ASB on this model 2004 1150rt, has had issues where at times changing the fluid will disrupt particles of possible deteriation of O rings that will damage the ABS.. COMPONETS-

The repair /replacement required, will exceed the market value od the bike.....

Do find a new dealer?

Dave

 

Do find a new dealer?

 

Dave

Yes.

 

Do find a new dealer?

 

Dave

 

Yes.

+1

Hi Dave,

If changing the fluid is going to dislodge bits of damaged O rings (and more likely, I reckon, deteriorating old rubber brake hose lining - swap 'em for stainless if you have not already done so) then it is only a matter of time before it happens anyway, possibly just when you need your brakes most. If there's crap in there it will dislodge some time in the future so now is as good a time to bite the bullet as any. If you end up with a toasted ABS/linked braking system, fret not, it is not the end of the world. When mine went I had it removed and am now very happy with a front brake connected to the front lever and a back brake connected to the brake pedal. I feel much better connected to, and in control of, the brakes than when it was all servo assisted, especially with the ancient ballooning rubber pipes replaced with stainless ones. I never had the ABS kick in anyway so don't miss it.

So,if I were you I'd definitely have the fluids replaced, and swap to stainless lines. It is a great bike and deserves such occasional treats at its venerable age.

Pat

Question on the ABS system on the 2004 rt. I'm the orignial owner, always dealer serviced.

 

............

Do find a new dealer?

West Valley?

You can perform this task yourself.

Plenty of info on line & guidance available here.

Here is a guide that I use to perform the service on my 2003 R1150RT. Well written with good images.

http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/service_abs3.pdf

If you decide to proceed, I'd recommend going to speed bleeders all-around on the callipers as well as the ABS unit. Also, when loosening the bleed valves on the ABS unit, ensure you use a proper deep socket (8mm). A wrench in that tight spot may not apply nice, even torque and you could break a bleeder (this almost happened to me but I stopped when one of the valves was too tight and headed to the store for a deep 8mm socket).

Hi Dave, Yes I agree with the other comments above about your current bike dealer - he must have a long driveway so he can see you coming....

Rest assured that Dana Hager's step-by- step tutorial which Claudio links you to, is first class. It guides you seamlessly through the process proving that there's no need whatsoever to cough-up wodges of loot to a dealer for this time-consuming but essential job.

As I've mentioned before in previous posts - I had a couple of drinks with an immaculately-suited BMW exec several years ago in Berlin-Spandau, following a fascinating BMW Motorrad Factory Tour ( very much to be recommended if you're ever in that neck of the woods ).

After I'd finished the taped radio-interview and the guy relaxed, he quietly admitted that The Greedy Berlin Pig only ever guarantees the complete integrity of the rubber components on its bikes for a period of FIVE YEARS. The combine's stated philosophy is that in general, BMW big-bike riders are wealthy, mostly olderr dilettantes who can afford to chop in their vehicles at very regular intervals, so build-quality and longevity are now adjusted accordingly, so as to maximise profits for the Quandt family who owns BMW AG.

At least those of us with this vintage of oilhead Beemers do actually benefit from the era when the firm mostly put together higher quality vehicles designed to last. When the Number One Priority was not simply garnering vast profits.