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#10190 - 10/20/03 08:31 PM Hydraulic Clutch Bleed Walk-through--with pics!
KMG_365 Offline
LeftSpin
Member

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 8147
Loc: San Diego, CA
Well, since you've done the hard parts already, the bike is stripped, and the brake fluid can is opened, you might as well take a few more minutes and polish off that hydraulic clutch before you put it all back together.

You'll need a 10mmX1.0 SpeedBleeder or another 10mmX1.0 bleed screw from BMW or someplace else. The 1100's use 10mmX1.0's on the front calipers to help your dealer look it up for you. Leslie used a SB as they sent us the wrong sizes for the 1150 and we had two 10mm's left over. You'll also need all the same brake tools (except the Mini-Stan): fresh brake fluid, a 13mm wrench to hold the filler adapter while removing the grub screw, a (5mm?) hex wrench, T-handle or power bit to remove the grub screw and the appropriate sized wrench to install the SB (remember, they still use SAE measurements) or the BMW bleed screw (metric), small wire cutters, and a medium sized zip-tie. ACHTUNG! If you haven't done the brakes already I would read through the other two posts first as there is so much repetition I may abridge some steps here that are important, but similar enough to the other section as to not require restating.

Turn the bars so that the clutch fluid reservoir is level and secure the bars. Wrap reservoir with towels, remove the cover and rubber diaphragm clean and set aside.



Draw off the old fluid and clean out the reservoir. Top up the reservoir with fresh, clean fluid.




Clip the zip-tie on the clutch filler adapter.





Peel back the protective sheath and wrap towels around the filler adapter.







Remove the grub screw. The filler adapter has a ball check-valve (similar to the SpeedBleeder) which prevents rapid flow when the grub screw is removed. The pointed end on the SB or BleedScrew will push the ball into the adapter, allowing fluid to flow around it. BMW does NOT recommend that the bleed screw be left in place, but the grub screw re-inserted when the bleed is finished.




Replace the grub screw with the SpeedBleeder.





Connect the tubing and crack the SB 1/4-1/2 a turn.




Pump the clutch lever slowly and completely (observe the same technique and especially the cautions as the front control circuit!!!) keeping the blow-by hole covered. Remember: If you are using the BMW bleed screw you will need to close it with each pump before you stop compressing the handle. Since the reservoir and lever are on the left side and the filler adapter is on the right--this is a great example of how the SpeedBleeders help save time and contortions! :D>




When the fluid runs clean, top up the reservior to the fill line, replace and secure the cover and rubber diaphragm, remove the stock BMW BleedScrew and replace the grub screw (or just close and leave the SB in place if you're the "running with scissors" type! laugh ).




Clean off the filler adapter well and replace the protective sheath. if using the SB, I recommend cleaning out the end of the SB with compressed air (be careful of splattering!) before replacing the dust cap. I failed to do this for some of my wheel circuits and it looked at first like the SB's were leaking. There can be a lot of fluid trapped in the SB above the check ball. They've all been holding up fine for another 5000 miles now with no seepage (even the SpeedBleeder in the clutch filler adapter).




Re-attach the filler adapter to the frame with the new zip-tie and your done!



Congratulations on a job well done!
_________________________
Cool_Jamie "KMG_365"
"Dry-Town" Crew, San Diego
"Maynard" "the Krebs Cycle" '03 R1150RT, black

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#10191 - 10/20/03 08:42 PM Re: Hydraulic Clutch Bleed Walk-through--with pics! [Re: KMG_365]
BPeterson Offline
Gotta Push ?
Gotta Push ?

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 1094
Loc: NJ, USA
excellent write up!

thanks!!
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Brian IBA - BMWMOA '06 TE610 '04 GS Adv '02 DRZ-400S in New Jersey

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#10192 - 04/05/04 06:22 PM Re: Hydraulic Clutch Bleed Walk-through--with pics! [Re: KMG_365]
steveknapp Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 8858
Loc: Grayslake, IL, USA
Two thoughts.

You show putting the bleed screw into the fill adapter with a powerdriver. I found the threads of the fill adapter very easy to strip. Beware. I did it, BMWRich did as well.

And hence I learned the other part of this. The fill adapter can be removed. A pair of vicegrips on the fill adapter and a flare nut wrench on the end of the hose and it comes out easily. It can then be replaced with just the bleed-screw, the bleed screw left in, and operated normally. I'll take a pict of what this looks like.


Edited by steveknapp (04/05/04 06:23 PM)
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I love the smell of Plexus in the morning!

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#10193 - 04/05/04 06:55 PM Re: Hydraulic Clutch Bleed Walk-through--with pics! [Re: steveknapp]
rozemab Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 414
Loc: Cornfields of Indiana
When I tried to use the speedbleeder (2 yrs ago), I could not get the nipple to thread into the checkvalve. TO me it appears the point of the speedbleeder was too 'deep', ie the point was pushing against the checkvalve before the threads engaged. Did the speedbleeder folks create a new nipple with less of a peak?
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------------------------ BMW - The boxer champ for over 75 years! 1967 R60/2 and Sidecar (Grandpa) 2002 R1150RT (Pants on fire ) -------------------------

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#10194 - 04/05/04 07:43 PM Re: Hydraulic Clutch Bleed Walk-through--with pics! [Re: steveknapp]
Stan Walker Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 5021
Loc: I miss Colorado
The fill adapter can be removed.

Cool, weight reduction, easier than my personal diet.

Stan
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Stan Walker
Simi Valley, CA
'02 R1150RT, '15 F800GT, '15 F700GS, '99 F650 (for sale)

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#10195 - 04/05/04 08:38 PM Re: Hydraulic Clutch Bleed Walk-through--with pics! [Re: rozemab]
KMG_365 Offline
LeftSpin
Member

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 8147
Loc: San Diego, CA
Hi rosemab!

Actually, I didn't show it in this walkthrough, but we also noticed that the pointy tip of the SB makes it very hard to, A: get the SB centered on that spring-loaded ball check valve while threading it in, and, B: getting enough threads to bite to seal it without stripping.

Rick "calikid" posted some great practical observations on his job here. He also illustrates there the same fix we used for this problem. We filed the point off of the SB which solved both problems and used the electric screwdriver with a socket to help hold the SB straight to keep from cross-threading it, while being able to apply enough force to compress the spring pushing the ball check-valve out against the seat. The small electric screwdriver doesn't turn very fast, and I would be VERY careful using it or especially anything larger/faster/more powerful. When we did Steves1150's, we just drug the tip on the concrete to file it down. The SB's are deliberately made of pretty soft metal to be sacrificed before stripping threads (ideally! ) and are supposed to break off before ruining the caliper they are screwed into.

If I didn't mention it before, Leslie and I owe a great deal of thanks to "rosemab" and "Maxi-Stan" and the many others who contributed to the excellent threads on this procedure, prior to our posting the walk-throughs! There are also some other good discusions and more helpful info with "lessons learned" from other threads where folks have done their own services (like I never took off the ABS connector when I did my control circuits--what a PITA!). A properly date-ranged and narrowed search should provide even more good info. Thanks again to all of you!
_________________________
Cool_Jamie "KMG_365"
"Dry-Town" Crew, San Diego
"Maynard" "the Krebs Cycle" '03 R1150RT, black

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#10196 - 04/05/04 09:03 PM Re: Hydraulic Clutch Bleed Walk-through--with pics! [Re: KMG_365]
steveknapp Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 8858
Loc: Grayslake, IL, USA
With regards to the clutch. I was using the BMW OEM bleed screw, not the speed bleeder. I guess my thought is why bother grinding down the tip of your bleed screw, or cross threading it into that soft fill adapter. It's there to make the factory's life easy, not yours.

It unscrews easily. What I thought was red loctite was actually thread sealing compound! I had a heat gun all ready to bust that free, no need. Once gone the bleed screw goes right in, all the way.


Edited by steveknapp (04/05/04 09:05 PM)
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I love the smell of Plexus in the morning!

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#10197 - 04/06/04 12:11 PM Re: Hydraulic Clutch Bleed Walk-through--with pics! [Re: KMG_365]
rozemab Offline
Member

Registered: 08/14/01
Posts: 414
Loc: Cornfields of Indiana
Hi Jamie,

I use SB in all the calipers. For the clutch, I purchased the BMW OEM bleed screw (can't say nipple- gets Stan too excited ;) ) and an 'inline' bleed checkvalve that opens against the hydraulic pressure of the line. Same principle as the SB. You can pick one up at
www.whitehorsepress.com (search for bleed), ~$20US.


Your posts have been very good for the RT community! Keep up the good work! (Over the past two years I have made several 'mini-Stans' for fellow RT owners/friends in the area.)
_________________________
------------------------ BMW - The boxer champ for over 75 years! 1967 R60/2 and Sidecar (Grandpa) 2002 R1150RT (Pants on fire ) -------------------------

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#10198 - 04/06/04 05:21 PM Re: Hydraulic Clutch Bleed Walk-through--with pics! [Re: KMG_365]
Cali Kid Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/03
Posts: 572
Loc: Northern Sierra, CA
Jamie & Leslie thanx for the your efforts to provide the great info, your the best. I would like to chime in here and clarify a point (no pun intended ) that we hadn't talked about.

Quote:

...but we also noticed that the pointy tip of the SB makes it very hard to, A: get the SB centered on that spring-loaded ball check valve while threading it in, and, B: getting enough threads to bite to seal it without stripping.

Rick "calikid" posted some great practical observations on his job here. He also illustrates there the same fix we used for this problem. We filed the point off of the SB which solved both problems ...




Yes, point one about the tip making it hard to get the speed bleeder(SB) started is quite true. However, I really don't see any way that filing the tip off the SB affects thread engagement. Removing the tip does not give you more thread engagement because the SB is in as far as it will go when it contacts the seat, regardless of how much tip you have left. You can see this when you install a new SB with the tip intact, it will screw in far enough to seal, that's as far as it will ever go tip or no tip, so I'm in doubt that it solves the second problem. The point( ) is to be careful when installing SB's in this application, very high strip potential. For additional reference my pic and notes on the clutch SB are HERE
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Rick '98 VFR

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#10199 - 04/06/04 06:10 PM Re: Hydraulic Clutch Bleed Walk-through--with pics! [Re: Cali Kid]
Ken H. Offline
Turtle Whacks
Member

Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 16404
Loc: Edmonton, AB Canada
Quote:

Removing the tip does not give you more thread engagement because the SB is in as far as it will go when it contacts the seat, regardless of how much tip you have left.


At the risk of adding another voice to this, but having "been there, done that"... The challenge is getting the very pointy SB started because it also has to push in the check ball below it in the bottom of the factory connector as you start threading it. As you attempt to do it the point of the SB moves all over the surface of the metal check ball, which has a very strong spring behind it you are trying to compress, thus making it hard to get a straight square angle on it and started threaded. By grinding the point off you get a better square 'push' on the ball and a fighting chance to get the SB starting threading straight.

To put it another way, with the tip as is the SB is basically too long to start threading without also pushing in the check ball at the bottom. And pushing the ball with the pointy SB while keeping it square so as to be able to start threading it in is a very difficult thing to do. So we take the tip off so first the threads start, then a turn or so later in the SB starts to press in the factory check ball.

You are correct however that once it is started threading the ground of tip has no effect (good or bad) on the ultimate seal when closed. That seal comes from the tapered sides mating to the fitting. (Presuming you permanently leave the SB in of course.)
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Doctor I need to learn how to relax faster.

If you want to ride tomorrow, ride quietly today.
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