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#1020653 - 10/11/18 12:16 AM Re: Still not running [Re: RPG]  
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RPG Offline
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Good evening D.R.,

I do not see the timing advancing all the way to the Z mark. I'm going to check it again

The engine sounds "ok" once revved above idle. I would say above 2k rpm, it sounds pretty normal.

I'll disconnect the O2, and hook up the GS911 as suggested.

Thanks again. I'll report back.

RPG


Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future.

Ayn Rand

#1020654 - 10/11/18 12:18 AM Re: Still not running [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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RPG Offline
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt
Rick, Weren’t you having trouble with the voltage drop across your key switch or was that someone else? The twinnspark is very voltage sensitive. RB


Hi Roger, yes that was me.


Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future.

Ayn Rand

#1020663 - 10/11/18 01:24 AM Re: Still not running [Re: RPG]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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What’s the green wire voltage now when your bike is running?

#1020689 - 10/11/18 12:52 PM Re: Still not running [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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RPG Offline
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt
What’s the green wire voltage now when your bike is running?


I will need to check that Roger.

Last time I looked, I believe it was 13.6vdc on the relay coil side of the of the Load Relief II relay. (battery voltage about 13.9vdc)

thanks,

RPG


Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future.

Ayn Rand

#1020690 - 10/11/18 12:58 PM Re: Still not running [Re: dirtrider]  
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RPG Offline
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Good morning D.R.,

Is it advancing all the way to the (Z) mark? Even at 4000 rpm, I'm not seeing the Z mark. Not sure when full advance occurs, but on an Airhead it's around 3 grand.

Disconnecting the O2 sensor doesn't make any difference.

As another idea, I emptied some fuel into my glass beaker and noticed it's quite yellow. No water in it, but the color seems rather dark. Almost like urine. smile

So I emptied the tank and drove over to my local station and put five gallons of fresh fuel into my container and poured that into the bike.


There was an improvement in running and idle so I pulled fuse 5 and let it sit overnight. Did the re-learn this morning and the problem's still there.

Won't idle and eventually stalls. Another thing I forgot to mention is that its discharging a black liquid substance from the muffler. I assume it's un-burnt fuel??

Is there any remote chance it could be the Motronic? Is there a way to verify?

Thanks again for your help,

RPG


Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future.

Ayn Rand

#1020693 - 10/11/18 01:37 PM Re: Still not running [Re: RPG]  
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roger 04 rt Offline
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Rick,
Let the bike sit overnight. Attach the Gs-911. Turn on the key. Set the 911 to capture all realtime values to a CSV file. Set the fast idle lever to mid detent. Start the bike and let it run to 4 bars in the oil temp. Don’t touch the throttleor fast idle until 4 bars. After 4 bars, fast idle lever to off. Let it run one more minute. Stop logging, shut off the bike and email me the CSV file. I’ll be looking for unusual sensor behavior.

If you need to use a little throttle to keep it running, use the minimum and keep the throttle steady.

Last edited by roger 04 rt; 10/11/18 01:38 PM.
#1020696 - 10/11/18 02:06 PM Re: Still not running [Re: roger 04 rt]  
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RPG Offline
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt
Rick,
Let the bike sit overnight. Attach the Gs-911. Turn on the key. Set the 911 to capture all realtime values to a CSV file. Set the fast idle lever to mid detent. Start the bike and let it run to 4 bars in the oil temp. Don’t touch the throttleor fast idle until 4 bars. After 4 bars, fast idle lever to off. Let it run one more minute. Stop logging, shut off the bike and email me the CSV file. I’ll be looking for unusual sensor behavior.

If you need to use a little throttle to keep it running, use the minimum and keep the throttle steady.


Thank You Roger, appreciate that. I'll run that this evening.

Rick


Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future.

Ayn Rand

#1020703 - 10/11/18 04:13 PM Re: Still not running [Re: RPG]  
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dirtrider Offline
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Originally Posted by RPG
Good morning D.R.,

Is it advancing all the way to the (Z) mark? Even at 4000 rpm, I'm not seeing the Z mark. Not sure when full advance occurs, but on an Airhead it's around 3 grand.

Disconnecting the O2 sensor doesn't make any difference.

As another idea, I emptied some fuel into my glass beaker and noticed it's quite yellow. No water in it, but the color seems rather dark. Almost like urine. smile

So I emptied the tank and drove over to my local station and put five gallons of fresh fuel into my container and poured that into the bike.


There was an improvement in running and idle so I pulled fuse 5 and let it sit overnight. Did the re-learn this morning and the problem's still there.

Won't idle and eventually stalls. Another thing I forgot to mention is that its discharging a black liquid substance from the muffler. I assume it's un-burnt fuel??

Is there any remote chance it could be the Motronic? Is there a way to verify?

Thanks again for your help,

RPG





Morning Rick

Sure, there is a slight chance the Motronic is acting up. I went years & years & never saw a failed Motronic 2.4 but lately (last couple of years) I have seen 3 failed Motronics.

Remember that the 1150 triggers the fuel pump as the timing cup window closes so I never trusted the fuel pump-run as a fool proof timing method on the 1150 bikes. If you want to do it statically (& correctly) then build a HES timing box.

You might try advancing the base timing until you can see the (Z) mark in the timing window at very high RPM's (until it quits advancing anyhow). If it THEN idles better then you probably need to find a better way than using the fuel pump-on as a timing tool.

Definitely follow Roger's data trapping suggestion above as that might point a finger but also verify that you have the CORRECT base timing set.


D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
#1020705 - 10/11/18 04:39 PM Re: Still not running [Re: RPG]  
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RPG Offline
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RPG  Offline
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Morning Rick

Morning D.R.,

Sure, there is a slight chance the Motronic is acting up. I went years & years & never saw a failed Motronic 2.4 but lately (last couple of years) I have seen 3 failed Motronics.
Quote
What's interesting D.R., is that the fuel injector's weren't spraying at all until I disconnected and re-connected the Motronic. And as I was checking continuity, I was looking for a complete path from each injector's Green/White wire back to the fuel pump relay. Both injector's measured this path at infinite ohms, but after re-connecting the Motronic, magically displayed .3 ohms. Strange.


Remember that the 1150 triggers the fuel pump as the timing cup window closes so I never trusted the fuel pump-run as a fool proof timing method on the 1150 bikes. If you want to do it statically (& correctly) then build a HES timing box.
Quote
I agree. With the new HES installed, and using the fuel pump trigger method, I can only get the OT marked centered when adjusting the plate all the way to one side.


You might try advancing the base timing until you can see the (Z) mark in the timing window at very high RPM's (until it quits advancing anyhow). If it THEN idles better then you probably need to find a better way than using the fuel pump-on as a timing tool.
Quote
That sounds like a plan.


Definitely follow Roger's data trapping suggestion above as that might point a finger but also verify that you have the CORRECT base timing set.
Quote
Will do


Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future.

Ayn Rand

#1020715 - 10/11/18 06:51 PM Re: Still not running [Re: RPG]  
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dirtrider Offline
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Originally Posted by RPG
With the new HES installed, and using the fuel pump trigger method, I can only get the OT marked centered when adjusting the plate all the way to one side.



Afternoon Rick

Sounds like you might be trying to time it as the timing cup window opens in the opposite direction?

The HES plate should be somewhat centered (look at the old HES for screw witness marks then use that as a general guess mate guide (then see how it idles)-- It should hit the (Z) timing mark at high RPM's.




D.R. ___
Sent from my rotory dial wall phone!
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