boxerguy Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Is Synthetic recommended by BMW for both applications? I have quite a bit of Valvoline SAE 80/90 left over from my older bike. Present bike is a 2009 R1200RT. The Rider's manual I have don't list anything in that regard. Link to comment
Bernie Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 BMW recommends 75W90 Synthetic Gear Oil for the transmission and for the rear drive. The oil the dealers sell is made by Castrol, if I remember correctly, I used a product from Amsoil for 188,000 miles without any problems. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Is Synthetic recommended by BMW for both applications? I have quite a bit of Valvoline SAE 80/90 left over from my older bike. Present bike is a 2009 R1200RT. The Rider's manual I have don't list anything in that regard. Depends of what BMW service manual that you use. The early BMW 1200 manual recommended (brand name hypoid-gear lubricant SAE 90 API GL 5) in the transmission. So, IF your Valvoline SAE 80/90 is a GL5 rated gear oil & is non LS (non limited slip) then it should work in the transmission. The later BMW 1200 service manuals recommended Castrol SAF-XO in the transmission which is a 75w90 GL5 rated non LS synthetic gear oil. On your 2009 1200 final drive-- the BMW service manual recommendation is Castrol SAF-XO 75w90 GL rated non LS synthetic gear oil so definitely use a good quality GL5 rated 75w90 synthetic gear oil in the final drive. 1 Link to comment
w2ge Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 If not taking this off-topic (too much)? What would be wrong with using LS type gear oil in our Final Drive? Or Gearbox? Link to comment
dirtrider Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 If not taking this off-topic (too much)? What would be wrong with using LS type gear oil in our Final Drive? Or Gearbox? Morning w2ge LS (Limited Slip) gear oil contains some special additives that are designed to penetrate & seep between very tightly clamped friction plates. This isn't a desirable trait for gearboxes that do not require that trait. (LS rated gear oil is designed to take the chatter out of Limited Slip & Posi-traction automotive & light truck differentials) Will LS spec gear oil work? (sure),, is it the best choice for a gear unit not requiring it (especially on gear units with sealed bearings)? (in my opinion, NO). With Castrol offering an almost identical gear oil to Castrol SAF-XO that is LS rated why would BMW 'only' recommend the non LS rated SAF-XO? Link to comment
boxerguy Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 Good Day D.R. and all who replied: This clears up some of my confusion. I used the 80/90 Valvoline GL-5 stuff in my older R1100RT and it worked beautifully. This is non-LS so according to D.R. I should still be able to continue using it in the Tranny... The only change I have to make is to use the 75/90 Synthetic stuff in the Drive...I use Amsoil stuff in my truck, might just get some of their 75/90 Synthetic severe gear stuff for the Final Drive... Link to comment
dirtrider Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Good Day D.R. and all who replied: This clears up some of my confusion. I used the 80/90 Valvoline GL-5 stuff in my older R1100RT and it worked beautifully. This is non-LS so according to D.R. I should still be able to continue using it in the Tranny... The only change I have to make is to use the 75/90 Synthetic stuff in the Drive...I use Amsoil stuff in my truck, might just get some of their 75/90 Synthetic severe gear stuff for the Final Drive... Afternoon boxerguy Just make sure the gear oil is GL-5 rated. Also, remember that BMW revised the final drive fill amount to 180 ml so don't overfill it. Link to comment
terryofperry Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Plug the part # on the bottle into the Valvoline website. If it is the blue bottle labeled High Performance 80/90 it may be for non limited slip drives & non synchro gearboxes. Valvoline™ High Performance Gear Oil is a high quality lubricant to keep your vehicle running in great condition and avoid loss of corrosion protection. Additional product benefits include: Protects against severe temperaturesFormulated with extreme pressure additives to help minimize gear wear from shock loadsHelps protect gears from scuffing, scouring, corrosion and pittingRecommended for conventional hypoid differentials and non-synchronized manual transmissions in passenger cars, light trucks, sport utility vehicles, vans and heavy-duty trucks where an API GL-5 or API GL-4 fluid is specified. Valvoline recommends SynPower™ Full Synthetic Gear Oil for limited slip differentials. Terry Link to comment
MrMillett95 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I used 75w90 Amsoil Severe gear in both trans and final drive. This is the recommended weight I believe. Link to comment
boxerguy Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 Morning D.R.. Thanks for the heads up on the quantity (180ml) for the Final Drive. The Stuff I have is the Blue bottle that Terry just posted to this discussion.. The only difference is I have it in convenient smaller bottles...On my R1100RT the fill hole was easily accessed, and I filled it till I could feel oil with my pinky finger (bike on center stand). similar as if you were filling a standard differential. Are you saying that we need to carefully measure 180ml and no more? Even if we cannot see or feel new oil at the filler? Link to comment
dirtrider Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Afternoon boxerguy Are you saying that we need to carefully measure 180ml and no more? Even if we cannot see or feel new oil at the filler? YES, Do Not Overfill as that can lead to problems, BMW even lowered the fill level to 180 ml due to problems so be as precise as possible when re-filling your final drive. On the transmission, you can just fill to bottom of fill hole. One thing to consider in the future is planning the final drive gear oil change to take place at the same time as rear tire changeout as you will already have the rear wheel removed. Link to comment
Dann Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Here is another option: I use Castrol LRN7591 for both the final drive and transmission. • Castrol Syntrax Long Life 75W-90 2003-2009 Land Rover Range Rover Differential Oil - Rear Differential - Castrol LRN7591 - Syntrax Long Life; Equivalent to: Castrol SAF-XO) I get it at the Land Rover dealership. It costs half the price of the Castrol SAF-XO they sell at the BMW dealership. Link to comment
boxerguy Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 Good Evening D.R. Excellent photo and great suggestion on scheduling a Final Drive Oil replacement with a rear tire replacement also...Your I.V. Setup to fill the Final Drive is an excellent way to facilitate filling with the exact amount. Do you mind if I copy that setup for myself? One quick question on removal of the rear wheel... After you torque the Studs to the correct value, is it necessary to re-torque them after 2 hours of riding or 150 miles whichever comes first. I'm used to this regimen on my Semi Tractor or Trailer wheels... Link to comment
duckbubbles Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) After you torque the Studs to the correct value, is it necessary to re-torque them after 2 hours of riding or 150 miles whichever comes first.. While not a BAD idea, I have never done that and have never had a bolt loosen after proper torque. The proof I have is the force required to loosen the bolts after thousands of miles. Frank Edited December 12, 2018 by duckbubbles Link to comment
dirtrider Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Good Evening D.R. One quick question on removal of the rear wheel... After you torque the Studs to the correct value, is it necessary to re-torque them after 2 hours of riding or 150 miles whichever comes first. I'm used to this regimen on my Semi Tractor or Trailer wheels... Morning boxerguy Whenever you are dealing with alloy wheels & a tapered seat type bolt attachment it is always a good idea to re-check the wheel attachment torque after some miles & a few heating & cooling cycles. Few riders do that & if you get a dealer service they don't require it so it probably isn't really necessary-- But it sure is a good idea. Personally, I always re-check my own after the first few rear wheel removals as the possibility of loosening is higher on new tapered seat attachments but once I have had the rear on & off a few times I usually don't re-check unless I have a wrench in hand & think about it. If your bike hasn't had the rear wheel flange recall done yet (BMW replaces the alloy rear wheel flange with beefier steel flange) then be very careful to not over-torque the rear wheel bolts. (the picture that I posted shows the original alloy rear wheel flange as it was taken pre recall). Link to comment
boxerguy Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 Good day D.R. One reason I bought this bike was because I was able to get meticulous service records on it (19 pages of dealer preformed preventative maintenance) on a bike with only a little over 30K mi...That rear wheel flange recall item was performed. Also the brake lines recall was done as well. Good suggestion about re-checking the studs after multiple heating-cooling cycles, pretty much the same as my other vehicles. One quick question, when you are doing the final drive oil change, do you Lube the Splines also each time? Link to comment
Qball 16 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 One quick question, when you are doing the final drive oil change, do you Lube the Splines also each time? In my opinion, based entirely on experience in "other" activities, too much lube is FAR better than not enough lube In all seriousness though, I'd also like to hear an opinion from someone with more experience than me in THIS particular situation... Link to comment
Dann Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 (edited) I've always lubed my FD spline at every FD fluid change. Unfortunately, it didn't keep my drive shaft U-joint to break on the highway at 140,000km. But as you can see on the pictures, my FD spline is still in good shape. Edited December 14, 2018 by Dann Link to comment
SK_in_AB Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 I'm just about to do an FD oil change on my 2006 R1200RT. Does the new recommended 180 mL volume apply to that model as well or should I stick with 250 mL (which is from an old BMW internet owners service manual) or 220 mL which I have also read about. Thanks for any help from the Forum experts. Link to comment
dirtrider Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 hours ago, SK_in_AB said: I'm just about to do an FD oil change on my 2006 R1200RT. Does the new recommended 180 mL volume apply to that model as well or should I stick with 250 mL (which is from an old BMW internet owners service manual) or 220 mL which I have also read about. Thanks for any help from the Forum experts. Morning Stephen Yes, use the 180mL amount. There is a BMW service bulletin on this that supersedes the original early service manual. There is no vent on your final drive so with anything over 180mL there isn't enough expansion room for the air above the fluid so seal leaks result if too much fluid is added. Link to comment
SK_in_AB Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Thanks Since the wheel is already off at the dealer for a new tire I can’t go for a Ride to warm up the oil. Should I start the bike on the stand and run it in 1st for a while or should I just drain it cold? I could also put a heat lamp against the fd to warm it up a bit. The garage is about 60F -not sure if the oil will flow well at that temp Link to comment
dirtrider Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, SK_in_AB said: Thanks Since the wheel is already off at the dealer for a new tire I can’t go for a Ride to warm up the oil. Should I start the bike on the stand and run it in 1st for a while or should I just drain it cold? I could also put a heat lamp against the fd to warm it up a bit. The garage is about 60F -not sure if the oil will flow well at that temp Afternoon Stephen Running it in place won't do much as there is no gear tooth loading. You can drain it cold but I would suggest that you allow it to drain overnight as that should allow about all that come out to drain out. Link to comment
SK_in_AB Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 OK Thx for the advice. Off to buy some 75/90 oil and moly grease Link to comment
SK_in_AB Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler So. I’m half done. Job seems pretty easy but I know realignment of the slime to the u joint may be tricky. You can see the speed sensor in the photo.... I assume the fuzzy brush on the end has a purpose? I wiped off a bit of the dirty oil but plan to leave it as is Link to comment
dirtrider Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 41 minutes ago, SK_in_AB said: Reveal hidden contents Reveal hidden contents Reveal hidden contents So. I’m half done. Job seems pretty easy but I know realignment of the slime to the u joint may be tricky. You can see the speed sensor in the photo.... I assume the fuzzy brush on the end has a purpose? I wiped off a bit of the dirty oil but plan to leave it as is Afternoon Stephen Remove that fuzz from the wheel speed sensor. That is fine steel wear particles from the gear set wearing in (normal) but that fuzz should be removed from the sensor tip . Link to comment
Dann Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 6 hours ago, dirtrider said: Afternoon Stephen Remove that fuzz from the wheel speed sensor. That is fine steel wear particles from the gear set wearing in (normal) but that fuzz should be removed from the sensor tip . My 07 has 100,000 mi and I've never seen any deposit of any kind on my speed sensor. Never seen any in the oil I drained either. Only a very little amount of 'mud' on the drain plug screw. Link to comment
Twisties Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 To achieve the 180 mL final drive oil fill I use a 60 mL syringe designed for dispensing measured quantities of oil for 2-cycle oil-fuel mix and a hose like what was shown in the picture above. Three shots does the job. 1 Link to comment
Ponch Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 On 12/10/2018 at 4:49 AM, dirtrider said: Depends of what BMW service manual that you use. The early BMW 1200 manual recommended (brand name hypoid-gear lubricant SAE 90 API GL 5) in the transmission. So, IF your Valvoline SAE 80/90 is a GL5 rated gear oil & is non LS (non limited slip) then it should work in the transmission. The later BMW 1200 service manuals recommended Castrol SAF-XO in the transmission which is a 75w90 GL5 rated non LS synthetic gear oil. On your 2009 1200 final drive-- the BMW service manual recommendation is Castrol SAF-XO 75w90 GL rated non LS synthetic gear oil so definitely use a good quality GL5 rated 75w90 synthetic gear oil in the final drive. Seems a lot of what gets sold is LS. Is there a problem using it? Link to comment
dirtrider Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 7 hours ago, Ponch said: Seems a lot of what gets sold is LS. Is there a problem using it? Morning Ponch I'm not sure there IS a problem but long term there could be a problem. LS (Limited Slip) gear oil contains specific additives that are designed to pernitrate & seep in between very tightly loaded burnished in clutch plates. LS gear oil is very good at it's job & does get into those clutch plates & remove chatter. Using LS gear oil in applications that use sealed bearings (bearings that contain their own sealed in grease) increases the chance that the gear oil could enter the bearing & dilute or pollute the sealed in grease. This would especially worry me on the BMW 1200 bikes that use a sealed crown bearing in the final drive as there are already problems with gear oil getting into those sealed bearings (I don't know if this is trackable back to using LS gear oil or not but to me not worth the added risk) Link to comment
Twisties Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I too have had trouble finding a gear oil that was 75W-90 GL-5 Full Synthetic (as specified) and not LS. However, local stores are now carrying a Lucas product that meets the spec and is not LS. Price ranges from $11.99 to $16.00 per liter or quart, whatever it is. Link to comment
aggieengineer Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 How about this: https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/gear-300-75w90 Readily available. Transmission shifts like it was factory-filled with whipped cream. I previously used Mobil 1, but their 75w-90 gear oil now includes additives for limited-slip differentials. Link to comment
David13 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I use the Liqui Moly from beemerboneyard.com. I have no idea if it's LS or not. Probably isn't, I doubt if it is. dc Link to comment
Ponch Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 5 hours ago, Twisties said: I too have had trouble finding a gear oil that was 75W-90 GL-5 Full Synthetic (as specified) and not LS. However, local stores are now carrying a Lucas product that meets the spec and is not LS. Price ranges from $11.99 to $16.00 per liter or quart, whatever it is. Liquid Moly has it. Beemer Bone Yard sells it. 1 Link to comment
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