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#42714 - 09/14/05 10:43 PM UnRally hotel accomodations...  
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A new Holiday Inn Express, scheduled to open in January of 2006, will serve as UnRally headquarters in 2006. This is tentative until I can confirm rates, room blocks and other details. I hope to have this nailed down this week.

I would like to hear your thoughts on the number of room I should tell them that we could use as our initial reservation block.

I've looked at the numbers from previous UnRallies, as well as considering the fact that our El Paseo and Torrey events are either all or mostly hotelers.

While I realize that tradition and history reflect that many camp during the UnRallies, I am also wondering if some or many would change to the hotel when they find out that it will serve as HQ, and that it will have all the amenities, such as breakfast included with the room, sauna, indoor heated pool, etc.

My initial thought that a block of 60 to 80 rooms would not be unrealistic. The mix would be mostly doubles with two queen beds, some singles with king beds, some suites, etc.

Hmmm...


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#42715 - 09/14/05 10:51 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Tasker]  
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I'd say 60 or 70 sounds about right.

This sounds like a great choice to me.


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#42716 - 09/14/05 11:42 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Tasker]  
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The last thing I want to do after riding all day, is climb into a damn sleeping bag. And when I get up in the morning, I don't want to have to walk across the campground freezing my ass off just so I can go to the john.

Needless to say, you will not get any complaints from me if the HQ is a hotel instead of a campground.

What can I say...I'm a pussy.


Russell
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#42717 - 09/14/05 11:45 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: russell_bynum]  
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What can I say...I'm a pussy.


Well, I love -- nevermind...


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#42718 - 09/15/05 01:35 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Tasker]  
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Just a few questions to think about when you talk with them:

Where in Gunnison will it be located?
Walking distance to restaurants is nice. Many people will still want to camp, and it may not work too well if it is on the opposite side of town from a campground.

What are the room rates?
Hopefully a new hotel won't be having premium prices for us.

Are they motorcycle friendly?
Some hotels don't like to have a bunch of biker trash hanging around. Some places may want to put a noise restriction on us in the evening. 10:00 pm is very reasonable; 9:00 pm may not be.

Is it a multi-level hotel, with no roomfront parking, where everyone goes in the same main door and up the elevator?
Just thinking about the ease of getting our numerous items off the bikes and into our rooms with as few trips up and down the elevator as possible (especially when everyone is trying to leave on the same day at the same time).

Is the parking lot conducive to motorcycle parking?
Level. Safe. Etc.

Is there a large enough and comfortable enough outdoor area where everyone can hang out and socialize?
This is needed for morning introductory events, morning coffee and whatever, evening get-togethers, etc. If we have to be scattered in different areas inside and outside, it takes away from the social aspect of the Unrally. Being able to interact easily with all the people attending is very important. In addition, it would be a plus if they have a large enough indoor area in case the weather is bad.


Howard
'07 Titan Silver RT

"Got a motorcycle and a bottle of gin,
Ima go downtown see what I can get in."
#42719 - 09/15/05 02:43 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: PhillyFlash]  
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Thanks, Howard.

I've asked most of your questions, but you've brought up a couple that I hadn't, and will.

The new hotel will be about 1.50 miles from the KOA, which is about the norm for the larger hotels in Gunnison.

The room rates will be competitive with the other chains in the area. We are discussing these now.

They will have a conference room, but it does not sound like it will be large enough for our entire group, in case of inclement weather, so this will not be any different than if all of us were at the KOA, as the KOA no longer has a large tent outside.

There is an area that will be next to the hotel (within walking distance) that I am researching. I've been told that this area will have cover and will be a great area for our one group evening meal, i.e., a BBQ.


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#42720 - 09/15/05 03:05 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Tasker]  
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We might be able to rent a large tent and leave it up for the entire time, too? And just build it into the price?


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#42721 - 09/15/05 03:10 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Tasker]  
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Tasker, socialization is the big issue. We need a place to gather. One that is socially COMFORTABLE. The picnic table area at the KOA served us well at the first Un. And from the pics I've seen of the other Uns, such areas are absolutely ideal for mixing and BSing. Does the hotel have such an area that can be somewhat trampled upon, sat upon, napped upon (nip it, Baker), and generally used as if it were one big back yard?


Cary, Gleno, Rodger, Paul,
Godspeed, my brothers.
We will never forget you.


Teach your children about taxes. Eat 40% of their ice cream cone.

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#42722 - 09/15/05 03:39 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: EffBee]  
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Tasker, socialization is the big issue. We need a place to gather. One that is socially COMFORTABLE.

I agree with you and I understand this, clearly. I've been to two UnRallies, all the El Paseo weekends, and several other moto-events over many years.

One of my main priorities is to create an environment that welcomes and encourages socialization.

With the El Paseo events, socialization happens easily in the parking lot(s) of the hotel, as is the case with the Torrey events.

For the UnRallies, it happens at both locations, the campground and the hotel, sometimes merging at one or both locations.

Unfortunately, there is no perfect solution for everyone. Those who camp, and who have been used to the UnRally HQ being at the KOA, won't be as happy. Those who hotel it may be a bit happier.

The term HQ is a relative term, too. The hotel will be the HQ because that is where I will be, but I'm sure I (and others) will spend time at the KOA, as well.

I am also working on the tent concept, as well, and depending on who I wind up using for the evening dinner, they may be able to provide it at a nominal fee.


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#42723 - 09/15/05 11:43 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Tasker]  
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Some thoughts since Patti and I just got through all of this:

My first thought is that if you put the HQ at a hotel (my vote) I would expect 80% - 90% of the people to hotel it. Putting it at the KOA definately creates 2 different groups, those who camp and those who dont. It bit us pretty hard this past year and quite frankly it disappointed me, though we didn't have much choice with the locations and honestly, I over estimated the inclusiveness of the groups on a social level.

Before Patti and were able to secure the shelter for last year we priced in a large gathering tent (through the caterer) for the supper. What we found was that the price per plate was insignigicant, especially when included in overall cost of attendance. We ended up dropping it though as we didn't need it. This should'nt cause any gas in the planning stages, as long as you can find a provider.

As for the size of the block, I would think that 70 would be a good number. I would not go higher than that, at least not initially as some will do their own thing or do the KOA thing. Also, you are on the ball, but make sure you let the mayor know were coming or some such. They appeard to really like us last time and wanted us to come back.

The last thought is that I think socialization in the parking lot like the other events is quite satisfactory. Id gladly stand on asphalt to know that I have an air conditioned room 3 minutes away with, privacy,a hot shower, and food close by. I just hope the parking lot is sizable as I forsee lots of Ram's and trailers, big ones, showing up!!

#42724 - 09/15/05 11:54 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Spike]  
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I concur with everything Spike said. I actually think having the HQ at a campground is a disadvantage, because most people are going to hotel it, and thus most people are away from the HQ.

Frankly, I think we're too stuck on this camping concept. There's no campers to speak of at any Torrey, El Paseo, Hill Counntry, or Mayhem (except the last one). To the extent that a campground and is near a hotel, cool--otherwise I think we ought to cater to the hotel crowd and let the campers do their thing. BMW rallies do focus on camping, but we're an UnRally.

I like the tent idea, Tasker.


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#42725 - 09/15/05 11:58 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: David]  
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Quote:

...otherwise I think we ought to cater to the hotel crowd and let the campers do their thing....




Campers, by their nature, dont care about being around the crowd anyway.

#42726 - 09/15/05 11:59 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Spike]  
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Probably true.

That HQ setup you got for us rocked, though.


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#42727 - 09/15/05 12:16 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: David]  
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Thanx. I was very happy with the facilitis and the KOA management. It was a beautiful and seculded spot. It was a great place to hang out. I would have liked to seen a better melding of the groups.

#42728 - 09/15/05 12:19 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Spike]  
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Quote:

Thanx. I was very happy with the facilitis and the KOA management. It was a beautiful and seculded spot. It was a great place to hang out. I would have liked to seen a better melding of the groups.




I agree. Not only were people at hotels, but they were at different hotels, and a) the hotel was huge and spread out; b) there was no restaurant, which acts as a meeting place.


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#42729 - 09/15/05 02:04 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: David]  
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The great thing at the Cody Unrally was the main motel that we used being right across the street from the campground. The campground was the HQ, and everyone socialized there since it had a nice grassy area with picnic tables to congregate at, and was walking distance to the motel, a very big advantage if people are going to be drinking. Eureka Springs was a more difficult situation since there was a limited amount of rooms at the HQ (although it was a good parking lot for socializing), and people were spread out among several motels, all of which were a considerable distance from the HQ. If you were not staying at the HQ, you really had to watch how much you drank in anticipation of the 10 mile ride back to your room (at night, in a heavily deer populated area). I don't think there was any camping at the E.S. Unrally.


Howard
'07 Titan Silver RT

"Got a motorcycle and a bottle of gin,
Ima go downtown see what I can get in."
#42730 - 09/15/05 02:42 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: PhillyFlash]  
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Actually, there was a little camping at E.S. but not much. The campers were at the bottom of the hill, behind the motel and the cabins.

Yeah, Cody was the "perfect" solution, which unfortunately, is very rare in city planning these days, i.e., having the campgrounds in the middle of town.

I guess the solution is for us to go to Cody every year!


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#42731 - 09/16/05 12:47 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Tasker]  
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I'm not suggesting that it BE at the KOA. Only that (if possible) we have a nice open space, grassy would be preferable for its comfort and coolness, whereupon to socialize. A large parking lot at the motel is fine, but it's hard and not very homey.

Regardless, I'm sure the group will do just fine. I was just hoping for the ideal setting.


Cary, Gleno, Rodger, Paul,
Godspeed, my brothers.
We will never forget you.


Teach your children about taxes. Eat 40% of their ice cream cone.

Do you have a MotoReflective Reflective Kit (Link) for the rear of your BMW?
#42732 - 09/16/05 02:22 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: EffBee]  
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but it's hard and not very homey

Fernando, you bring the recliners and I'll bring my sofa, my end tables and lamps!


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#42733 - 09/16/05 07:33 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Tasker]  
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Fernando, you bring the recliners and I'll bring my sofa, my end tables and lamps!


Sounds like the stuff that Baker brings to a track day.




Russell
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#42734 - 09/16/05 07:41 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: russell_bynum]  
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Quote:


Fernando, you bring the recliners and I'll bring my sofa, my end tables and lamps!


Sounds like the stuff that Baker brings to a track day.






He better watch out, or he will need a trailer for his trailer!


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#42735 - 09/16/05 07:49 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Tasker]  
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He better watch out, or he will need a trailer for his trailer!

LOL!

It was pretty cool, actually.

Big Easy-up, a bunch of chairs (I think there were five chairs), card table, ice chest, etc. We didn't wind up using these, but he brought two of those big box fans like we all use for doing TB Syncs, and a Honda Generator. The plan was to zip-tie the fans to the easy up and power them with the generator to make redneck ceiling fans.


Russell
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#42736 - 09/16/05 08:15 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: russell_bynum]  
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Quote:

He better watch out, or he will need a trailer for his trailer!

LOL!

It was pretty cool, actually.

Big Easy-up, a bunch of chairs (I think there were five chairs), card table, ice chest, etc. We didn't wind up using these, but he brought two of those big box fans like we all use for doing TB Syncs, and a Honda Generator. The plan was to zip-tie the fans to the easy up and power them with the generator to make redneck ceiling fans.




Here's the other part of this story:

I just happened to be at his house, waiting for my GS, which was at Bloodworth getting the 12K service done, while he was packing the truck and trailer for the weekend.

I told him that I wouldn't really be impressed with what he was taking until he added the full-blown caterer to the track weekend!


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#42737 - 09/16/05 08:32 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: Tasker]  
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I told him that I wouldn't really be impressed with what he was taking until he added the full-blown caterer to the track weekend!




Russell
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
#42738 - 09/16/05 11:29 PM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: russell_bynum]  
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Quote:


Fernando, you bring the recliners and I'll bring my sofa, my end tables and lamps!


Sounds like the stuff that Baker brings to a track day.






Hey, putz. Who used it all that second day? Who never sat on it? Who sat out in the hot sun keeping an eye on your sorry ass, weaving all over the track?


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#42739 - 09/17/05 02:51 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: David]  
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Quote:

Quote:


Fernando, you bring the recliners and I'll bring my sofa, my end tables and lamps!


Sounds like the stuff that Baker brings to a track day.






Hey, putz. Who used it all that second day? Who never sat on it? Who sat out in the hot sun keeping an eye on your sorry ass, weaving all over the track?




Settle down, schmuck...I did say "It was pretty cool".

And I didn't just use it the second day...I used it both days.


Russell
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#42740 - 09/19/05 01:18 AM Re: UnRally hotel accomodations... [Re: russell_bynum]  
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The plan was to zip-tie the fans to the easy up and power them with the generator to make redneck ceiling fans.




REDNECK CEILING FANS!!! You get away with THAT, and I get a shot across the bow (Strike One with a smilie attached) for saying Chicken Fracker?

Damn, if the boss likes to go mountain climbing I guess the smart move is to buy some cleats.


Cary, Gleno, Rodger, Paul,
Godspeed, my brothers.
We will never forget you.


Teach your children about taxes. Eat 40% of their ice cream cone.

Do you have a MotoReflective Reflective Kit (Link) for the rear of your BMW?
#42741 - 10/01/05 09:12 PM Scouting Report [Re: Tasker]  
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After leaving Torrey last weekend. I decided to take a little trip to Gunnison. I found the Holiday Inn Express. I'd guess it is still a good 3-6 months away from being ready for occupancy. The building is up, but the outside is far from being finished, and parking lots are heaps of dirt (but boundaries are outlined). It is on the far east side of town, directly in front of the Western State College of Colorado campus. It looks just like any other Holiday Inn Express, down to the size and shape of the parking lot. I think the hotel is 3 stories. The parking lot has plenty of room for cars and bikes. If it is pretty full when we are there, I don't know if there will be much room to socialize in the lot. There are city parks just a block or two away, but I don't know if they would let us have a beer party there (without a permit, at least), plus, it wouldn't be very convenient. The Holiday Inn is 3 miles away from the KOA. This isn't too bad, since once you are out of the KOA area, it is all in-town streets, so there is no problem with darkness or deer. However, anyone having a couple of beers at the KOA would have to be very careful crossing those last 2 miles, as I'm sure police enforcement will be present and ready.

The two nicest motels closest to the KOA (only 1 mile away) are the Day's Inn and the Alpine Inn (which had a different name 3 years ago, possibly Comfort Inn). Most of us who stayed in motels at Un-1 stayed in these two, and they met our needs very well. I believe the rates also were decent. There is another motel less than 2 miles to the west call the Water Wheel. I stayed there a few times several years ago, and it was very nice. There are also 2 very basic motels on US 50 just across the street from the road that leads to the KOA. They are probably pretty inexpensive (they look a bit run-down; just single story with parking in front of your door), but they still are additional options for people.

I rode through the KOA to see how it looks, and it looked no different than it did in 2002. Grounds seemed in good shape.

The Holiday Inn Express certainly should be able to hold all of us without a problem, but so should the two motels close to the KOA, especially if we get an early start on reservations (which some already have done; I'm not one of them). The advantage to the 2 motels on the west side of town is the close location to the KOA if we try to hold some events there. If we are at the Holiday Inn, we could still hold events at the KOA; it would just be a little further to travel. That being the case, I think we'd end up with a larger division between those staying at and partying at the Holiday Inn (as opposed to the Day's Inn/Alpine Inn) vs. those staying at and partying at the KOA. Many people may jump on their bikes without helmet and gear to go 1 mile, but maybe not 3. Some psychological effects of the distance, rather than the distance itself, may keep people on their "home" turf.

Gunnison is not a big town (2 miles east to west), so all of this may not be that big of a deal. The Holiday Inn will be new and very nice, but could be pricier. It is very big. My personal preference would be to keep everything on the west side of town, keeping everyone closer together. Just easier logistics. But this is only a scouting report to help the organizer(s) with the decision-making. I plan to be there, wherever we hold it, staying in a motel (probably).


Howard
'07 Titan Silver RT

"Got a motorcycle and a bottle of gin,
Ima go downtown see what I can get in."
#42742 - 10/01/05 09:28 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: PhillyFlash]  
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Oh, yeah. One more thing from my scouting that will be of interest to everyone. When I got to the western edge of Gunnison, there was a LEO (possibly Gunnison Police) facing west with radar, giving someone a ticket about 1 miles west of town. When I left, I remembered that, went exactly the speed limit, and was passed by a car going less than 10 above the limit. Wouldn't you know it. He got about 200 yards ahead of me and here comes the same LEO heading east, zaps him with instant on, and pulled him right over. This was about 3-4 miles west of Gunnison. Obviously, he was just patrolling back and forth in that area. I'd suggest that you watch your speed carefully anywhere within about 10 miles of Gunnison, just to be on the safe side. However, the entire way down CO 149 (through Lake City down to Creede), I did not see a single LEO. A county LEO was in Creede, though. 149 was spectacular. I'm sure we'll get lots of folks riding it. Rather than making a loop like I did at Un-1, I think I'd rather ride it down to Creede, and then turn around and ride it back north again. Anyone in?


Howard
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"Got a motorcycle and a bottle of gin,
Ima go downtown see what I can get in."
#42743 - 10/02/05 07:35 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: PhillyFlash]  
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Quote:

Rather than making a loop like I did at Un-1, I think I'd rather ride it down to Creede, and then turn around and ride it back north again. Anyone in?







Uh, that's a rhetorical question, right?





Denny
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#42744 - 10/12/05 05:24 AM Re: Scouting Report [Re: PhillyFlash]  
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The Holiday Inn is 3 miles away from the KOA. This isn't too bad, since once you are out of the KOA area, it is all in-town streets, so there is no problem with darkness or deer. However, anyone having a couple of beers at the KOA would have to be very careful crossing those last 2 miles, as I'm sure police enforcement will be present and ready.



I don't see the campers mixing with the hotelers much in this scenario, much like in Staunton. Not as bad as ES, but certainly not as good Un-I (Gunnison KOA) or Cody. I disagree with the move towards acommodating the "trailering set" with focussing on the hotel as HQ, but I'll speak my piece and then sit down as that seems to be the way it's heading.

It is very hard to find "the perfect" hotel that fosters the socializing aspect--which for me is the key draw to ride halfway across the country to meet cyber-friends in the flesh. The history of this site was focussed on the RT and is still largely a SportTOURING site. I'm not sure we should shift our focus so much towards the gentrified hotelers only to lose the "Gemütlichkeit" of hanging out at a picnic table, eating pizza, drinking a beer, walking over to all the bikes, ogling farkles, moving easily from group to group, etc..

At Staunton we were spread out all over the campground and there lacked a convenient, designated "central gathering place", not to mention the Hotel crowd was too far away to conveniently come back to the campground after a long day riding and I agree with Spike that that caused two different groups to form that didn't mingle very much. Though it seems that the hotel crowd is what BMW-AG seems to be focussing on lately as well--is our embracing this shift really that worth it for the majority of the members who might attend? The difference between camping for three-four nights for $7.00 a night vs. $70.00 a night for a hotel, when folks probably had to hit hotels on their way there, could make it less attractive to the other "dirty hippies" like me! Also: I'm perfectly aware that I'm in the minority in this and I'm not doing the legwork for this one. [/soapbox]


Quote:

Gunnison is not a big town (2 miles east to west), so all of this may not be that big of a deal. The Holiday Inn will be new and very nice, but could be pricier. It is very big. My personal preference would be to keep everything on the west side of town, keeping everyone closer together. Just easier logistics.




There is no convenient camping in Torrey (and it's not all that nice from what I've heard), Don't know about Hill country and El Paseo as they move about and camping has never really been the focus of the organizers.

At the last Hill Country Ride we stayed scattered all over in a huge hotel and it really killed the socializing. Nobody knew what (if anything) was planned, if anyone was meeting anywhere, etc., and everyone just went back to their room and only met in small groups for dinner and/or rides with folks they already knew or came with. The place was so large that you could go from your room to dinner to your bike and back to your room without ever running into anyone else!

If we do end up in a large hotel, I would strongly suggest some convenient facility onsite for a really good gathering place with some amenities there: large tent/shelter, ample convenient parking, tables (proximity to food/drink and grass would be a plus). It would also help to CLEARLY disseminate where this place is and what suggested schedule exists for group dining, ride-planning, announcements, seminars, tire-kicking-time, etc.


Cool_Jamie "KMG_365"
"Dry-Town" Crew, San Diego
"Maynard" "the Krebs Cycle" '03 R1150RT, black
#42745 - 10/12/05 01:28 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: KMG_365]  
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I think I know what you mean, Jamie, but to someone who doesn't know you, the thoughts come across as quite holier than thou. I only mention that because I don't think that's the way you mean it, and or at least I hope that's true. The "trailer" and "hotel" and "gentrified" stuff really hits me as condescending, and I don't imagine you mean it that way.


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David C. Baker
#42746 - 10/12/05 06:15 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: David]  
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I think it is just a way of life that the closer the motels are to the campground, the more we will socialize as a total group. The farther away, the less. For many people camping is a choice, not just because it is cheaper. Some people just like to do it, whether they are riding or trailering. I don't care how people get there, or where they choose to stay; I just want to be sure that everyone has as good an unrally experience as possible, and that we stay with the original intent of the unrally - to meet, ride, and socialize with a large group of people who you know from BMWST.COM. Spreading people out too far will degrade the opportunities for all of those, and probably encourage people to stay with the small number of people they already know and ride with. It then becomes more lik other rallies. But maybe the "spirit" of the UnRally is coming to an end.


Howard
'07 Titan Silver RT

"Got a motorcycle and a bottle of gin,
Ima go downtown see what I can get in."
#42747 - 10/12/05 06:22 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: PhillyFlash]  
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Quote:

For many people camping is a choice, not just because it is cheaper. Some people just like to do it, whether they are riding or trailering.




I agree. And I saw more people trailer to the campground than I saw trailer to the hotels.

I just don't think we're well served by somehow implying that trailering is inferior, or only rich people stay at hotels.


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David C. Baker
#42748 - 10/12/05 08:13 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: David]  
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Quote:

I just don't think we're well served by somehow implying that trailering is inferior, or only rich people stay at hotels.



Hey, I edited out the "rich" comment!

David, you've stated on more than one occasion that "BMWST.com folks don't camp" and "we shouldn't bother trying to accomodate those (few) campers"--which could easily also be taken as "holier than thou" and it was that that I was reacting to. I think that is as incorrect as my implication that trailering is inferior (actually did I imply it? I meant to be more clear! )
Basically, I feel the difficulty of finding a hotel that supports the purpose of the UnRally as Philly mentioned, are contrasted by the ease and generous space afforded at a campground. Even if more than half of the riders don't camp, if they can stay very nearby, it's still a better solution IMHO. Some hotels have it, (Chuckwagon in Torrey, Exchange Club in Beatty), but for a group that gets well over 100, or as large as 160+, that makes a hotel based gathering start to seem a lot more like a "business convention" and a lot less like a Motorcycle rally . . . "Un" or not.


Cool_Jamie "KMG_365"
"Dry-Town" Crew, San Diego
"Maynard" "the Krebs Cycle" '03 R1150RT, black
#42749 - 10/12/05 08:25 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: KMG_365]  
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Quote:

David, you've stated on more than one occasion that "BMWST.com folks don't camp" and "we shouldn't bother trying to accomodate those (few) campers"--which could easily also be taken as "holier than thou" and it was that that I was reacting to.






They don't, largely. How's that a condemnation? Look at the MOA and RA Rally and you'll see what it looks like when a larger percentage do camp. When we've made it abundantly easy for folks to camp, it's still a small minority. It's just an observation, not a criticism.

Just so you know, too, the research we've done doesn't not point to $7 camping. It's quite a bit more than that, and often rivals the cost of an inexpensive hotel chain.

Quote:

I feel the difficulty of finding a hotel that supports the purpose of the UnRally as Philly mentioned, are contrasted by the ease and generous space afforded at a campground.




That makes sense to me, but I don't know why we'd need to disparage someone's choice to trailer or hotel. I don't get that at all. The argument should be framed in terms of what's conducive to people getting together, and where they sleep or how they get there is irrelevant.

Quote:

...but for a group that gets well over 100, or as large as 160+, that makes a hotel based gathering start to seem a lot more like a "business convention" and a lot less like a Motorcycle rally.




By your standard, I guess El Paseo is a business convention. We typically have 100+.

Sorry, but I don't get it.


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David C. Baker
#42750 - 10/13/05 12:31 AM Re: Scouting Report [Re: David]  
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The "trailer" and "hotel" and "gentrified" stuff really hits me as condescending, and I don't imagine you mean it that way.

For what it's worth, we aren't interested in camping and it has nothing to do with trailering the bikes. We just like a nice hot shower and a nice cool air conditioned room after a long ride and we don't want to have to hike across a KOA to get it. Camping is great in the right circumstances (We took the Jeep/SeaDoos to Lake Millerton once and camped on top of a huge boulder over the lake. It was awesome.) but I'm not going to camp just for the sake of camping.

I agree with your comments about the need for a centralized meeting spot. I don't care if that's at the campground, or at the hotel. At Gunny, the KOA was a great meeting place. The only time we were at the hotel was at the very end of the night when it was time for bed. For everything else, we always defaulted back to the KOA.

I think the same thing would be true if there were ONE designated meeting spot and I don't think it matters if it is a hotel or a KOA.


Russell
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
#42751 - 10/13/05 02:25 AM Re: Scouting Report [Re: russell_bynum]  
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I've been watching this topic develop from afar and I find it interesting, to say the least.

The bigger picture...

As the BMWST.com events continue to grow, so will this issue. There is no way that everyone will be happy with the decisions made about the housing details of the UnRally, let alone the other planned events throughout each year.

With that being said however, I've never once heard a housing complaint about any of the El Paseo events, other than the fact that they might be located in a dry county. The room rates have ranged from $59 to almost $90, and the socializing in the parking lot, without tents and without catering, and sometimes with rain, has always been outstanding. I think those who trailered even had fun, once they were accepted by the group. ( )

So far, it seems that the only "perfect" UnRally location, the one that pleased both the campers and the hotelers, was Cody. From a riding perspective, it seemed to please everyone who attended. It might make sense for the "power brokers" here to consider making Cody the annual or bi-annual UnRally location. This way, one tough decision is already made every year, or every other year.

What I am about to say does not apply to me because I fully understand and expect the politics of organizing events:

If you are going to ask someone to spend an incredible amount of time and energy to organize the UnRally, I'd be careful about criticizing or challenging their every decision about how things are being done, based on how they were done for the first UnRally. I'm not suggesting that this is what is happening here because it isn't, but others could mis-construe your passion and enthusiasm for this event. Then, they could decide that "it" isn't worth the hassle. Then, ultimately, you wind up with the same crew doing the same events every year.

Considering that this is an UN event, it takes a lot of planning and work. Maybe the UN event needs to be like Torrey or El Paseo -- always in the same place, usually put together by the same people, and without as much fanfare as there has been for the UN, which was established the first year, i.e., tee-shirts, catering, etc. Maybe the "measuring stick" needs to be lowered to a realistic level, considering the UN nature of the event. If not, then let's blow this thing out and invite vendors, speakers, stage clinics, etc. I'm saying this with half-a-tongue-in-cheek, but...

I decided that the HQ this year would be at the hotel, only because I'm the chair and I will be at the hotel, but the truth is that I could care less about where the HQ will be.

I'm also still working out details about which hotel we will be using, and the accomodations that we will have to work with at the hotel, keeping in mind our needs for socializing, catering, drinking, security, etc.

I fully understand that there will be a number of campers who will be pissed to learn the the HQ might be at a hotel, and that maybe status-quo might be turned upside down a bit. I also believe that there will be a number of hotelers who will say "Thanks, it is refreshing for us to have a little loving for a change!"

Okay, I'm fired!


Perseverance is genius in disguise...

2016 R1200GS/WC
#42752 - 10/13/05 12:35 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: russell_bynum]  
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Quote:

I think the same thing would be true if there were ONE designated meeting spot and I don't think it matters if it is a hotel or a KOA.




There was one designated meeting spot at Staunton, the campground, and largely, the hotelers did *not* hang out and interact except to start the morning rides and the ending dinner.

Tasker: right on buddy That is exactly what I did last year, made a decision. And I have to say, that once the decision was made, the conversation ended on it. I think once its "official" you will see the banter die down with respect to '06. Something you may not know though is that we are already talking somewhat about un '07, who will do it, etc, yadda yadda yadda. Conversations like these, while in full plain view of you, are many times concerning a many year timeline. Hope that makes some level of sense.

Last edited by Spike; 10/13/05 12:40 PM.
#42753 - 10/13/05 03:59 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: Spike]  
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GunOne was a breakthrough. We didn't know shit. Making the KOA the HQ was pure luck. But if you examine it and why it worked, you'll find out a few things.

One, is stuff. Since it was HQ, there were always people hanging around watching your stuff if you were a camper. Motelers had their stuff locked in their rooms. This becomes an even bigger issue once night falls.

The second was proximity. About a mile to the farthest motel. Easy to do. Easy to find.

The third was access. You rode in and there in front of you was HQ, parking, the benches, etc.

Another was the newness of the event. My first and second Torrey I rode around to all of the motels to check out who was there. My, what a gathering! Now, if they want me they'll find me. Regardless I know they'll have a good time. Un may have an element of that as there are several people who've been to at least half of them now.

This is not an effort to push for the KOA. The decision is made and I support it. But I have expressed concern about the HQ's general socialization area. Is it big enough? Comfortable enough? Conducive to intermingling? And is it a DRAW? If not naturally so, then we must attract outsiders to it. With food. With daily announcements. By making it THE place where you log in your routes (so we know where to start looking if you don't show up for dinner). Heck, I'll kick in some door prizes for the person who has the most signatures on their T-shirt (that, or something like that, would drive some getting together and socializing).

Not to change this from an UnRally into a Rally, but some simple tweaking of the normal things that go on could be utilized to ensure that WHEREVER the HQ is, that it is well attended and that the socialization aspect of the Un is watered and fed (pun intended).


Cary, Gleno, Rodger, Paul,
Godspeed, my brothers.
We will never forget you.


Teach your children about taxes. Eat 40% of their ice cream cone.

Do you have a MotoReflective Reflective Kit (Link) for the rear of your BMW?
#42754 - 10/13/05 04:58 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: EffBee]  
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Fernando, you make a number of very good, valid points about the HQ being at the KOA. And, as I've said, the location of the HQ really doesn't matter to me, so I am happy to reconsider the KOA as the official HQ. Logistically, it probably makes better sense, as there are (currently) to many unknowns about the hotel situation, and what they will be able to do for us in the way of outdoor accomodations.

I have already had discussions with the KOA owners there about having a tent put up for our group for that week, and they are checking into having one installed for us. There used to be one there all the time, but it came down when the ownership changed, and the "in-house" caterers went away, as the tent belonged to the caterers.

As far as the hotel is concerned, it will come down to a choice between two, based on rates, conveniences, our needs and availability. Unfortunately, mid-June is considered prime-time, so the rates are going to be on the high side.

I don't think it will make much of a difference where the HQ is to those who hotel it, as was the case in Staunton. For the very same reasons the campers like to be able to enjoy their adult beverages, socialize and then crawl and drop into their tents or cabins, the hotelers want and deserve the same amenities, as they should. So, the challenge of getting the two groups to stay and play together will always be tough, unless we're at Cody. I don't think that this is a "hotelers vs. the campers" kind of thing, it's just about convenience.


Perseverance is genius in disguise...

2016 R1200GS/WC
#42755 - 10/13/05 06:09 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: Tasker]  
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Quote:

As far as the hotel is concerned, it will come down to a choice between two, based on rates, conveniences, our needs and availability.




I know the Holiday Inn Express is one of them. What is the other?


Howard
'07 Titan Silver RT

"Got a motorcycle and a bottle of gin,
Ima go downtown see what I can get in."
#42756 - 10/14/05 02:27 AM Re: Scouting Report [Re: PhillyFlash]  
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Water Wheel.


Perseverance is genius in disguise...

2016 R1200GS/WC
#42757 - 10/14/05 02:49 AM Re: Scouting Report [Re: Tasker]  
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I've stayed there before. Nice rooms; nice grounds.


Howard
'07 Titan Silver RT

"Got a motorcycle and a bottle of gin,
Ima go downtown see what I can get in."
#42758 - 10/14/05 04:13 AM Re: Scouting Report [Re: Tasker]  
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Quote:

Water Wheel.







You know, I was kicking myself that I didn't check that place out when we were just in Gunnison. It looked pretty nice with some country charm and a nice central parking lot (I don't think it is all paved, though none of the KOA was).

It seems like it would be a good location for a HQ and it's big enough even to house the whole group even if they all decided to hotel it. I don't know how expensive or how full they are already though. The advantage there is the couple of nice restaurants nearby and the campground close enough to still be convenient without having to go all the way to the other side of town.

I don't know why we didn't stop in there and check it out better! I stopped and took the pictures, but we were there in the middle of the day and it looked deserted. Dang it--sorry for falling down on the job, Tasker!

For some more pics of the Gunnison scouting, check out our SmugMug gallery here.

Dang, that is some beautiful country! Even my lousy pictures with my shitty little camera can't mess it up! I'm getting excited all over again!!! Can't wait until June!

Last edited by KMG_365; 10/15/05 05:45 AM.

Cool_Jamie "KMG_365"
"Dry-Town" Crew, San Diego
"Maynard" "the Krebs Cycle" '03 R1150RT, black
#42759 - 10/14/05 03:50 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: KMG_365]  
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I like the newness of the about-to-open Holiday Inn Express, but that's just me. The rates for both properties will wind up being about the same however, the Water Wheel seems to have better grounds, and as you said, it is two miles closer to the pesky campers .

The director of the Gunnison Chamber of Commerce uses the Water Wheel all the time to house business guests, as well as her family when they visit. She says that it is older, but clean and well-kept. She did not know about internet access.

The Holiday Inn will have (good) continental breakfast included, as well as a pool, internet access and laundry services, which for many, will be worth the extra two miles drive time. Other than not knowing about internet access, I know the Water Wheel does not include anything else.

It (Water Wheel) is just now under new ownership, and I have not been able to talk with the new owner yet, but he is aware of me and our group and when we want to visit. I've been told that at this point, that week in June is wide open for them.

I'm still working on the rates, so we'll see.

The pictures are a lot of help. Could you run up there and snap some pictures of the new Holiday Inn property?

If not, you're fired!


Perseverance is genius in disguise...

2016 R1200GS/WC
#42760 - 10/14/05 05:36 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: Tasker]  
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Quote:

The pictures are a lot of help. Could you run up there and snap some pictures of the new Holiday Inn property?



Oooooooh! Don't tempt me!

When would you need those by?

As long as I'm on the clock and get my usual Moderator pay, travel bonuses, mileage allowances and generous "per diem", I'm all over that! We're planning a recon ride next weekend for the Death Valley Daze ride in January--maybe we can swing by Gunnison quickly on the way home!


Cool_Jamie "KMG_365"
"Dry-Town" Crew, San Diego
"Maynard" "the Krebs Cycle" '03 R1150RT, black
#42761 - 10/14/05 07:03 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: Tasker]  
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Quote:

Fernando, you make a number of very good, valid points about the HQ being at the KOA. And, as I've said, the location of the HQ really doesn't matter to me, so I am happy to reconsider the KOA as the official HQ. Logistically, it probably makes better sense, as there are (currently) to many unknowns about the hotel situation, and what they will be able to do for us in the way of outdoor accomodations.




Tasker, I think you missed my point(s). The first point I made is that this is not about moving HQ to the KOA. Not at all. It's going to be at a motel. Period. Now, having cleared that up, let me restate:

We got lucky the first time. As I said, we didn't know bupkus about how to run one of these things. The KOA worked out for a number of reasons, as I stated. One of those was the fact that it was our first time and no one wanted to miss ANYTHING, so when they weren't riding they showed up at the KOA regardless of where they were staying.

Still, what can we take away from that first event and the success of the camraderie and socializing at the KOA, and transfer it to a more controlled setting, like a motel?

Easy location, for one.
Comfortable atmosphere for another.
Wide-open space and access for all.
MAKING it the center for announcements, ride routes (check-out/check-in), events, etc.
A good PA system.
A STARTING POINT each morning, with a keynote speaker (if only for a minute or two).
Making the meals happen there.
Etc.

People will naturally congregate at the nearest place at which they feel comfortable, unless something pushes/pulls them to go farther. THAT is what I think we should be focusing on. Some will stay at the HQ motel. Others will stay at other motels or will camp. We should be devising ways to DRAW them to HQ in order to centralize and maximize the socializing and the success of the event. Doing that, while walking the fine line of keeping this an UNRally is going to take a bit of craftsmanship. But we have faith in you.


Cary, Gleno, Rodger, Paul,
Godspeed, my brothers.
We will never forget you.


Teach your children about taxes. Eat 40% of their ice cream cone.

Do you have a MotoReflective Reflective Kit (Link) for the rear of your BMW?
#42762 - 10/14/05 09:28 PM Re: Scouting Report [Re: EffBee]  
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Tasker, I think you missed my point(s). The first point I made is that this is not about moving HQ to the KOA.

Nope, I didn't miss your points at all. You made it clear that if this thing isn't done your way, then you aren't coming! (Just kidding! Really! )

If the HQ location is to change, it would only be because it makes sense to the overall success of the UnRally, which is my one and only concern.

You can say what you want, but the success of UnOne was more than just dumb luck. It is amazing how many attendees are still talking about it, and it has become the measuring stick for all future UnRallies. You guys done good!


Perseverance is genius in disguise...

2016 R1200GS/WC
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