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#446518 - 02/18/09 10:10 PM US: A Nation of Cowards on Racial Matters  
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beemerman2k Offline
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Today's Yahoo News web site has an article that summarizes a speech given today by the US Attorney General, Eric Holder. In that speech he claims that the USA is a nation of cowards when it comes to discussing race matters. While I appreciate his speech, I must say that I disagree with his "nation of cowards" viewpoint.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090218/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/holder_race

Aside from my daily life experiences, I often rely on this web forum for an indication as to where the USA stands on various issues, including race matters. To the degree that this web forum is an indicator of the general population, the USA is a very different country today than the one I grew up in. I have found the members of this web forum to be extremely open when it comes to discussing racial matters. And whether I agree with the sentiments expressed or not, I can say I have never regretted the expression of those sentiments or questioned the motives behind the person expressing them. The members of this web forum have been outstanding in my view, so I am taking this opportunity to say, "Thank you" to everyone of you for your outstanding example and willingness to engage in discussions on race.

Oh, I can tell you for sure -- and so can come of the members of this forum -- that agreement is often an elusive goal! Yet in all the debates, no one has ever hesitated to be totally honest with me or afraid to express their potentially explosive viewpoints with me. You have all respected me enough to tell it like it is, and for that I am honored. (If everyone agreed with me, I would seriously question the sincerity of the discussions and I might be chastising this board for actually being the very cowards Eric Holder is talking about!) And I have been honored by some of you when I am asked to express my own views on race -- no matter how controversial my views might be. And of course, no one lets my questionable views go unchallenged either!

If we are going to continue to grow as a nation, then we must all be prepared for the truth. Candy coating and otherwise watering down our views isn't going to solve anything in the long term. I've engaged in some discussions where we had to part ways and simply "agree to disagree" until at least one of us learns enough to see the other persons point. We have to be willing enough and bold enough to risk hurt feelings to fight for the genuine prize of the truth! (The truth of how we feel, that is. The TRUTH is something that I don't think any of us has cornered!)

I suppose I can sympathize with those who might hold back; these days, you say something non-PC, you are immediately labeled a "racist". That is very unfortunate as I believe the "truth" may often be things that -- taken at face value -- are indeed offensive! However, there are indeed certain aspects of our lives, our families, our cultures, our ethnicities, and our races that are indeed inferior and need to be addressed as such! Unproductive habits are exactly that, and calling it something else, like "culture", doesn't change what it really is one bit! Anyhow, I think that us Black Americans have done a lot to quell open communications to our own detriment. So to the degree that I can, I aim to change all of that. So...anyone up for the First Amendment?! thumbsup

I write this because I feel very grateful to belong to a community of riders that, quite frankly, are very honorable and so far ahead of the social curve so to speak.

Never put on white gloves when dealing with me. Take 'em off and start swinging! I can take it. And when I sit down in my corner with a bloody nose and mad as all hell, just know that in my heart, I am very much thinking about our encounter and the truth that you're trying to beat me over the head with smile

OK, I have enjoyed countless conversations over the past 8 years, but I do want to make a special shout out to: David, Pilgrim, Huzband, Marty Hill, EffBee, Boffin, TyTass, and countless others, really, some of whom are no longer on this forum (probably banned for their racist views rofl Just kidding folks! Sheesh.)


beemerman2k
'00 R1100RT Opal Blue Metallic
<11 year haitus from motorcycling cry >
'09 K1300GT U of Michigan Blue, baby! thumbsup
Defeat is my teacher, not my master - Bruce Lee
#446524 - 02/18/09 10:32 PM Re: US: A Nation of Cowards on Racial Matters [Re: beemerman2k]  
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David Offline
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Originally Posted By: beemerman2k
Never put on white gloves when dealing with me. Take 'em off and start swinging!


Okay, I'll start. To me, you're a black man, not an African-American. I refuse to use that term.

Is that okay with you? grin


Author, Speaker, Advisor, Troublemaker

David C. Baker
#446527 - 02/18/09 10:37 PM Re: US: A Nation of Cowards on Racial Matters [Re: beemerman2k]  
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upflying Offline
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Discussion of race is a taboo subject. I have been trained, programmed and threatened not to consider it, profile it, show it or discuss it under any circumstances. Any mistake, implication, breach or open display of racism would result in my immediate termination. Same goes with a discussion of gender, sexual orientation and religion. Call me a coward but I kept my mouth shut and managed to keep my job for 30 years.


Bob
Reno,NV

2014 HD FXDC
2001 HD FLHPi (former work bike)
2009 HD FLHPi 103" (former work bike)
1972 Honda CT-90 garage queen

Logical politics is the Holy Grail of oxymorons.
#446528 - 02/18/09 10:38 PM Re: US: A Nation of Cowards on Racial Matters [Re: David]  
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beemerman2k Offline
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Originally Posted By: David
Originally Posted By: beemerman2k
Never put on white gloves when dealing with me. Take 'em off and start swinging!


Okay, I'll start. To me, you're a black man, not an African-American. I refuse to use that term.

Is that okay with you? grin


Oh boy, what a mess. Hell, I don't even know what I am these days!

I guess, without ever thinking about it, I refer to myself generally as a black American (sometimes I capitalize the 'b', othertimes I don't -- whatever!).

Yeah, that'll do just fine (hooo, we're breakin' new ground here, folks!)


beemerman2k
'00 R1100RT Opal Blue Metallic
<11 year haitus from motorcycling cry >
'09 K1300GT U of Michigan Blue, baby! thumbsup
Defeat is my teacher, not my master - Bruce Lee
#446531 - 02/18/09 10:48 PM Re: US: A Nation of Cowards on Racial Matters [Re: beemerman2k]  
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upflying Offline
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Reno, NV
David brings up a good point though.
I wish to be called a Swedish-American.


Bob
Reno,NV

2014 HD FXDC
2001 HD FLHPi (former work bike)
2009 HD FLHPi 103" (former work bike)
1972 Honda CT-90 garage queen

Logical politics is the Holy Grail of oxymorons.
#446532 - 02/18/09 10:50 PM Re: US: A Nation of Cowards on Racial Matters [Re: upflying]  
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beemerman2k Offline
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Wow, as a law enforcement officer, I can see why people need to feel like you are applying the law without bias or prejudice.

I do wonder, though, what our society could learn -- and especially the black community -- were we to find a way to receive open and straight forward observations from those who are in your line of work. I am certain such information would be earth shattering to us. Everyday you see the outcomes of poor decisions, and I'm sure you have a hunch as to what lead to some of those terrible errors. No doubt you see social patterns as well, some of which are typically associated with race, gender, sexual preference and all the other criteria you are not allowed to consider. Yet this information could prove rather critical to some of us out here.

Quote:
I wish to be called a Swedish-American.


Duly noted. Unfortunately, the California office that handles such "Change to Racial/Ethnic Status" request has been shut down due to budget constraints.

Last edited by beemerman2k; 02/18/09 10:53 PM.

beemerman2k
'00 R1100RT Opal Blue Metallic
<11 year haitus from motorcycling cry >
'09 K1300GT U of Michigan Blue, baby! thumbsup
Defeat is my teacher, not my master - Bruce Lee
#446538 - 02/18/09 11:09 PM Re: US: A Nation of Cowards on Racial Matters [Re: beemerman2k]  
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upflying Offline
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I agree, but to share my thoughts would be considered by some to be stereotypical, opinionated and close minded. LEO's are almost always on the receiving end of threats, biases and insults from members of the minorities. Any attempt at explaining LEO relationships with minorities would result in immediate outrage and contempt from the community. Sorry, but the new age of racial understanding and change isn't coming from me.


Last edited by upflying; 02/18/09 11:17 PM.

Bob
Reno,NV

2014 HD FXDC
2001 HD FLHPi (former work bike)
2009 HD FLHPi 103" (former work bike)
1972 Honda CT-90 garage queen

Logical politics is the Holy Grail of oxymorons.
#446542 - 02/18/09 11:15 PM Re: US: A Nation of Cowards on Racial Matters [Re: beemerman2k]  
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Paul Mihalka Offline
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OK, now I'll get into trouble. One of the strongest impositions of PC is that we are all created equal. We have the same rights, we have to have the same respect, but we are not equal. I think there are definite general differences between what I might call sub-races in the human race. You can't ignore that even where racism is not a subject, like traveling in Europe, you'll notice that the average Italian is different from the average German or Scandinavian. The difference is greater between the major groups of white, black, oriental. I'm sure there are differences in sub groups of black people in Africa, like some group in general is shorter, some taller. Same in Oriental, the Chinese is not the same as the Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese. Differences also exist in mental disposition. Some groups are more business minded, some more aggressive etc.
Covering up and trying to ignore these differences is a disservice to humanity. Talents should be promoted and developed. Shortcomings can be improved if recognised. Nobody is helped by ignoring the situations. Eric Holder may be right. PC made us cowards in considering race.
Wow, I don't believe I said all this...


Age is a issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter... (Mark Twain)
Many years and 1 million (s)miles.

'05 R1200GS lotsa miles (sold)
'09 Yamaha Majesty - yes, a scooter
#446545 - 02/18/09 11:25 PM Re: US: A Nation of Cowards on Racial Matters [Re: Paul Mihalka]  
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beemerman2k Offline
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Paul, you are to be commended for your boldness!

I'm sorry to keep jumping in on this thread like I am, but I wanted to comment for fear that someone mis-understand what you're saying here. In his book, "Roots", Alex Haley narrates the thoughts of the newly captured African slave, Kunta Kente, as he observes other slaves working on the plantations in America. Kunta Kente notices, with great astonishment, that these overseers have no idea what they are doing: they have members of the Fulani tribe planting seeds, whereas every African knows they are the most skillful herdsmen out there! And others from various tribes have other specialties that are not at all being put to use in the New World. Their ignorance the specialization of the African tribes are resulting in highly underproductive plantations! Although he is highly opposed to his new life in captivity, he feels that if you're going to subject people to this way of life, at least do it right!

So yes, without coming out and saying so, I would argue that both Alex Haley and his ancestor, Kunta Kente, would heartily agree with your observation.


beemerman2k
'00 R1100RT Opal Blue Metallic
<11 year haitus from motorcycling cry >
'09 K1300GT U of Michigan Blue, baby! thumbsup
Defeat is my teacher, not my master - Bruce Lee
#446553 - 02/19/09 12:11 AM Re: US: A Nation of Cowards on Racial Matters [Re: Paul Mihalka]  
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Flyer5 Offline
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Oh my there are black people on this forum . I will have to leave.

Just kidding of coarse. I have never really had the urge to discriminate against anyone because of race or color . I never understood the reasoning behind it . I have like 6 different nationalities in my family tree one of them being Polish and I enjoy the jokes as much as the next guy . The things that do piss me off are the people who feel they deserve special treatment because of race or color , and preach that all white people are out to get them. I think if you are American you deserve the same treatment as everyone else no more no less . Dave


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