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HES (Hall Effect Sensor) Replacement Options (R1100RT)


Dave R1100RT

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Entering my 3rd summer with a 2000 R1100RT ~46K

Trying to learn what I can about the bike while doing my own maintenance. I enjoy the aspect of riding and working on what I ride. I am no mechanic by any means. But feel confident that most maintenance tasks, with some info and help from here, I can usually handle. This site has been an invaluable resource. I am often blown away by the knowledge that resides here. Thank you for that.

I am currently gathering options for preventative replacement on the infamous HES. This is what I have come up with so far.

 

1.) Buy new HES For alittle over $200

Bosch 12 11 2 306 137 replacement from

www.beemerboneyard.com (great resource/excellent cust serv)

www.euromotoelectrics.com (great resource/excellent cust serv)

 

2.) Get your HES rebuilt - ~$150

Contact Tom Wade @ tom@wade.name

You send him your old plate, he remove's all the wire and the two sensors, replaces the two sensors with new, and renews the wiring. You get back your old plate and your old connector.

 

3.) Tom also has wire available for cheap - $2-$5

Buy Upgraded Wire and rewire yourself, and replace the two sensors at the same time....total ~$50

 

Tom sells the wire in two different versions. One is the exact same wire Charley was selling. Four strands of #26 wire, 18" long, in the right colors. $2, plus sase

Problem he's been hearing is that most people are having trouble fishing the new wire into the old shield and sheath. He's also been unsuccessful at this.

Second version is four strands of #26 wire, 18" long, in a shield, in a sheath. The colors are almost right, but not exactly. This is much easier to use, and was much harder to find. $5, plus sase.

This info came from an email I received from Tom - and I hope he doesn't mind that I share it here.

 

We all take different approaches to preventative maintenance as well as what data drives the decisions we make about replacement strategies. For me personally - unfortunately - #3 is currently out of my comfort zone....which usually means I'll have to spend some bucks. #1 has the potetntial to be temporary as it is OEM, and I'll make the assumption - same short falls exist. So maybe what I do...is buy a new one (which holds me for some miles) and then make an attempt to rewire my existing for a backup). I'm still thinking about it....anyway...the point is - just wanted to share some options for newbies like me considering HES options.

 

dave

Edited by Dave R1100RT
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I bought the new unit from beemer boneyard. I initially ordered th wrong part number and the plug was incompatible. I got really good service on getting the right one ordered and returning the wrong one for credit.

 

It's not the lowest cost option, but worked well for me.

 

I also built my own timing light for about $12 of radio shack parts. Worked like a champ.

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to be honest Dave, if time permits, i would take the old HES out and send it to Tom. His wire will last much longer. In fact I have an old HES I am rebuilding, and plan on using his wire and new sensors. I purchased the wire about 2 months ago, just have not gotten around to the rebuild. I would like to find a local "welding" shop so I can rivet the plates back together instead of nut and bolt. that is one of the reasons for the delay. I did not ask Tom, does he rivet the rebuild or bolt and nut. Do you know the answer?

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Hi Randy - I agree with your assessment. Fix it right and don't worry about it. Can't answer your question. I only know that he has built some fixtures to do the job. So - a question for him.

dave

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twowheelsonly

Hi

 

I am curious about this fix/mod.. is this a problem with the 2000 model year? I only have 22,000 miles on mine and am doing a general service right now.. so I am hoping this is not something required..

 

Thanks

Stewart

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Hi

 

I am curious about this fix/mod.. is this a problem with the 2000 model year? I only have 22,000 miles on mine and am doing a general service right now.. so I am hoping this is not something required..

 

Thanks

Stewart

Unfortunately yes. The insulation around the wiring for the HES disintigrates over time. There is really no way to inspect for it, so you have no idea it's going bad until the bike stops dead (and I mean DEAD) in the middle of the road, usually in a rainstorm. If I had a bike of your vintage (great bike and year, btw) I would either replace the HES or pick up a spare and cary it around in the saddlebag. It can be done on the road with no special tools, but it's a little tricky. Much better to do it in your garage.

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Randy - answer to your question...

Tom rivets the new HES sensors in place. They come with a stainless rivet as part of the assembly.

dave

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Unfortunately yes. The insulation around the wiring for the HES disintigrates over time. There is really no way to inspect for it, so you have no idea it's going bad until the bike stops dead (and I mean DEAD) in the middle of the road, usually in a rainstorm. If I had a bike of your vintage (great bike and year, btw) I would either replace the HES or pick up a spare and cary it around in the saddlebag. It can be done on the road with no special tools, but it's a little tricky. Much better to do it in your garage.

 

Oh great. One more thing to mess with while I have my 99 (with only 10K miles) apart for ABS diagnostic work. Oh well, at least thanks to you guys now I know.

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Just for a datapoint, the service records for my (acquired used) 1999 RT show that the HES was replaced by a dealer 4 years ago at around 50,000 miles. Would the HES at that time have upgraded wiring, or did BMW never make any design changes to prevent the problem?

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Oh great. One more thing to mess with while I have my 99 (with only 10K miles) apart for ABS diagnostic work. Oh well, at least thanks to you guys now I know.

 

Since heat seems to be the root cause of the insulation failure on the HES, I think that you should get many more miles on your bike without worrying about failure. I replaced my HES at about 60k. My $ .02

 

 

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I agree with Charles.

My original post was not meant to cause some paranoia about the HES.

It was just meant to share what a newbie was finding out about possible options.

I'm closing in on 50K....and I'm planning a couple of trips next summer/fall....and as long as I was doing winter maintenance in Mn (cuz - that's what we do with our bikes when we can't ride them)....I was just planning some preventative maintenance....I have had no issues with the HES as of yet.

Edited by Dave R1100RT
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I agree with Charles.

My original post was not meant to cause some paranoia about the HES.

It was just meant to share what a newbie was finding out about possible options.

I'm closing in on 50K....and I'm planning a couple of trips next summer/fall....and as long as I was doing winter maintenance in Mn (cuz - that's what we do with our bikes when we can't ride them)....I was just planning some preventative maintenance....I have had no issues with the HES as of yet.

 

I didn't take it as paranoia. I'm just in the same position as you with an original owner 10K mile (that's not a typo) R1100RT that I'm trying to do some preemptive maintenance on. I'm looking for everything I should do before I start putting some real miles on it.

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Charlie,

FYI - The HES on my MY2000 10/99 build date failed at 9600 miles. The bike was (and still is) in TX, and for a long time was kept in an unheated/unairconditioned hangar. So it appears from this that the failures could well be age and not mileage related :eek:.

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I agree with Phil.

Replace it in comfort now and avoid issues on the road.

There is a wide variance between miles and failure of HES on different bikes.

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Replacing the wire is an easy job. This link will provide you with what you need.

 

The wire is available here.

 

I simply replace my wire, not the sensors. I did not go through all the timing procedures, though I was ready to do so if needed. Scribe where the HES plate was mounted, replace wires, and put the plate back in the same location. That is all there is too it. I did mine at 78,000 and now have 139,000.

 

I have plenty of the tape mentioned in the post if you need some.

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Seldon,

Here's some info I received from EuromotoElectrics...

I think the answer to your question is no.

 

DAVE;

 

Thank you for your inquiry;

 

The original Bosch Hall Effect Sensor wires do have a tendency to deteriorate due to heat;

Both the insulation and the very thin metal wires strands themselves fail.

 

Saying that, the current production replacement has similar thin wire.

 

The later model application(I assume he means R1150RT) - R277 version has thicker insulation and wires , as well and a junction for the splices way up stream toward the connector plug.

This removes the major failure point from the engine heat.

 

Is the R137 replacement improved over the original – I cannot make that statement;

However you can be assured that you would have (and peace of mind) wires that are new,

And 10 year less old with no previous exposure to heat than your current HES.

 

My own personal R1100RT 2000 , failed at 32K ; (

 

Hope that helps !

 

Best Regards,

 

and by the way...

 

The later version R277 has a completely different connector plug.

And proprietary BMW owned plug is very difficult to disassemble to release the wire –end pins.

 

The R137 is not much simpler either to disassemble.

 

All other aspects of the 2 plates are interchangeable….

 

Edited by Dave R1100RT
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I'm thinking that I should just go ahead and swap out my original ten year old HES as insurance. But I don't understand the static timing process that is used (e.g. the Hager document). Can anyone direct me to instructions suited for someone who is a total idiot when it comes to electronics? Thanks.

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old_farmer...I'm with you.....(electronically challenged that is) then I looked around abit and found this .... www.ebbo.org/2av54.php

 

It made more sense....

 

Ignition timing

 

After replacing the sensor plate you will need to check the ignition timing, you can do this with the test rig above or with a voltmeter.

 

To test with a volt meter, plug the sensor plate in to the bike and switch on the ignition. Put the negative clip to a good earth on the frame and the positive probe to the Orange wire in the coupler (upper sensor). Watch the meter as you slowly turn the engine clockwise (viewed from the front)

 

Timing is correct when the voltage drops to zero with the OT (TDC) timing mark central in the window

 

that part helped me....I'm going to go the rebuild route. I did mark mine in a few different places and will replace in the same spot..... and will try this out above then

 

Edited by Dave R1100RT
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old_farmer...I'm with you.....(electronically challenged that is) then I looked around abit and found this .... www.ebbo.org/2av54.php

 

It made more sense....

 

Excellent. I think I actually understand this. Thanks.

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Alternatively you could scribe the spot where the old one sits before you remove it, or you could just say, "heck, there's only about six degrees of throw, I'll just put it in the middle. At worst, I'll be off by a few degrees." I've used both techniques to great effect.

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Entering my 3rd summer with a 2000 R1100RT ~46K

 

2.) Get your HES rebuilt - ~$150

Contact Tom Wade @ tom@wade.name

You send him your old plate, he remove's all the wire and the two sensors, replaces the two sensors with new, and renews the wiring. You get back your old plate and your old connector.

 

3.) Tom also has wire available for cheap - $2-$5

Buy Upgraded Wire and rewire yourself, and replace the two sensors at the same time....total ~$50

 

Tom sells the wire in two different versions. One is the exact same wire Charley was selling. Four strands of #26 wire, 18" long, in the right colors. $2, plus sase

Problem he's been hearing is that most people are having trouble fishing the new wire into the old shield and sheath. He's also been unsuccessful at this.

Second version is four strands of #26 wire, 18" long, in a shield, in a sheath. The colors are almost right, but not exactly. This is much easier to use, and was much harder to find. $5, plus sase.

This info came from an email I received from Tom - and I hope he doesn't mind that I share it here.

 

We all take different approaches to preventative maintenance as well as what data drives the decisions we make about replacement strategies. For me personally - unfortunately - #3 is currently out of my comfort zone....which usually means I'll have to spend some bucks. #1 has the potetntial to be temporary as it is OEM, and I'll make the assumption - same short falls exist. So maybe what I do...is buy a new one (which holds me for some miles) and then make an attempt to rewire my existing for a backup). I'm still thinking about it....anyway...the point is - just wanted to share some options for newbies like me considering HES options.

 

dave

 

Everyone,

 

1. Tom contacted me last summer and I gave him all my 'tips' on rebuilding the HES units. I believe he is providing the same harness that I was building and also selling just the Teflon wire very cheaply. Buy the wire from Tom.

 

2. The Hall devices do NOT need to be riveted or bolted. The device has built-in studs that you peen over to secure them in the plate.

 

Mick

Tucson

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I simply replace my wire, not the sensors.

 

So, is it the thin non-teflon OEM HES wires that fail most often, or the short wires that come out of the sensors, or the sensors? Are the sensor wires covered with teflon? If the sensors and wires all tend to degrade due to the heat at about the same rate I would be inclined to get a all-new HES complete unit. Am I missing something here?

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I simply replace my wire, not the sensors.

 

So, is it the thin non-teflon OEM HES wires that fail most often, or the short wires that come out of the sensors, or the sensors? Are the sensor wires covered with teflon? If the sensors and wires all tend to degrade due to the heat at about the same rate I would be inclined to get a all-new HES complete unit. Am I missing something here?

 

The degredation is on the wires between the plug and the sensor wires. It is concentrated at the point where the loom is clamped to the engine block and so sees the highest temperatures. Whereas the sensors themselves do occasionaly fail, this is a rare event. On the 1100, the failure is almost always in the OEM wire under the loom clamp. The sensors are rated to high temps and the rest of the wiring is not clamped to a hot engine and does not therefore deteriorate.

 

Andy

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Oh Boy....I was planning on a 500-mile round trip starting tomorrow in my newly-bought, 97 1100RT. 13 years and 32,000 miles since it rolled off the line. The PO was meticulous about maintenance. I'll try to contact him to see if mine has been done. I'm not paranoid. No. Not a bit. Really.

 

 

 

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Instead of buying special wire, has anyone tried just ripping the guts out of an old hair dryer and reusing the asbestos sheathing therein?

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I recently redid my HES. 130K on the bike. The wires showed no sign of deterioration, and never had any problems. Just a matter of "upgrading" and preventative maintenence. I left the HES, and spliced in new wires provided by Mick.

Question: knowing that there is a bit of heat in this area, should I have used an special solder? I used regular Radio Shack electronic solder.

Should I worry, or just ride?

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ALWAYS CARRY A SPARE, and the tools,know how to change it!!

 

once again...ALWAYS CARRY A SPARE!!...stay after class..and write on the chalk board 1,000,000 times...ALWAYS CARRY A SPARE....

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Ignition timing

 

After replacing the sensor plate you will need to check the ignition timing, you can do this with the test rig above or with a voltmeter.

 

To test with a volt meter, plug the sensor plate in to the bike and switch on the ignition. Put the negative clip to a good earth on the frame and the positive probe to the Orange wire in the coupler (upper sensor). Watch the meter as you slowly turn the engine clockwise (viewed from the front)

 

Timing is correct when the voltage drops to zero with the OT (TDC) timing mark central in the window

 

that part helped me....I'm going to go the rebuild route. I did mark mine in a few different places and will replace in the same spot..... and will try this out above then

 

I need help here.

 

I bought a new sensor. Mounted it up in line with the marks I made prior to removing the old sensor. Hooked it to the coupler. Installed belt pulley, making sure that the tab lined up with the notch in the shaft. Analog voltmeter set to 15V scale. Stuffed the positive probe into the coupler at the orange wire. Clamped the negative probe to ground. Turned on ignition. Slowly turned crank. Zero volts seen throughout the entire rotation.

 

So what head-slapping stupid thing am I missing here?

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Hey, old_farmer

I'm sure that someone that can really help will be along soon, but in the meantime have you checked the kill-switch on the handlebars, and checked that the sidestand is up and the bike in neutral.

Have you checked the RID to see if it displays anything (time,fuel) this maybe helpful with the diagnosis. :lurk:

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Well, duh. That sound you just heard was me slapping my forehead.

 

Kill switch was off and it was in gear.

 

I have voltage now.

 

Thanks for the help.

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  • 3 months later...
JinxCHiPper

I was able to get 10ft of the Belden # 83396 high-temp cable FREE from the manufacturer. I'm ready to do the replacement wiring, but stumped on what the #1 pin "clear" wire on the connector is for. My old wiring was so brittle and broken it just fell apart, so I can't figure out where it was spliced in. I had thought it might be a ground, but there is already a ground wire.

The wiring diagram on here- doesn't show it.

http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf

Any ideas?

Also- Does anyone have tips for peening the rivets on the new sensors? I haven't worked with rivets on electronic components very much, and don't want to ruin the new sensors.

 

 

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I was able to get 10ft of the Belden # 83396 high-temp cable FREE from the manufacturer. I'm ready to do the replacement wiring, but stumped on what the #1 pin "clear" wire on the connector is for. My old wiring was so brittle and broken it just fell apart, so I can't figure out where it was spliced in. I had thought it might be a ground, but there is already a ground wire.

The wiring diagram on here- doesn't show it.

http://users.rcn.com/dehager/service/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf

Any ideas?

Also- Does anyone have tips for peening the rivets on the new sensors? I haven't worked with rivets on electronic components very much, and don't want to ruin the new sensors.

 

 

Pin 1 - Clear is connected to the screening of the multicore outer casing.

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JinxCHiPper

sorry- not following what the multicore outer casing is. The old wire didn't have any kind of "shielding", or braided metallic covering inside, and neither does the new.

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sorry- not following what the multicore outer casing is. The old wire didn't have any kind of "shielding", or braided metallic covering inside, and neither does the new.

 

They should have done. It is effectively part of the protection inside the outer rubber sheath as shown in the picture below.

 

If you follow the link:

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf

 

And go to the section entitled Inspecting and Repairing the Wiring Harness, hopefully it will all become clear.

5076.jpg.57468efccb9e0ad59ec9ea94e7071a0f.jpg

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  • 5 months later...

Greetings from Cornwall, UK. My R1100RT 1998 has done 117k and the HES has just failed. I need to replace the sensors (Honeywell 2AV54 x 2) and the wires. Have searched online but Newark do not ship to the UK, Farnells in the UK have no stock and the only other sources have huge minimum orders. Might Tom or anyone else be prepared to post these ingredients over to me? (I have a paypal account.) Maybe someone knows a dealer who can ship to me. The forum has been very helpful and I am confident I can make the repair when I can get hold of the parts. Cheers, Derek

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Hi Derek,

for what it is worth, the sensors themselves are quite robust and it is usually just the wiring that fails - it degrades with heat and the inner insulation fails. Try rebuilding your current sensors with new wiring as a first step.

 

Andy

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Hi Andy

Thanks for the advice about the sensors but they are most definitely knackered - I have the fragments here on the table!! Looks like one came loose and smashed into the other, ripping it off the wire in the process. I had recently replaced the camshaft in the left hand cylinder and did a complete decoke so may have been a bit heavy handed when I reassembled the bike. It ran up beautifully, passed its MOT and a short test drive and then this happened. However it does seem that these can and do fail so a good idea to get it sorted as its a high mileage bike. Any advice on getting hold of bits in the UK? Thanks again, Derek

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Derek,

It seems that Farnell UK will no longer be stocking the Honeywell 2AV54 and they are out of stock in the USA too. There is a direct alternative - the CHYME-56 a Chinese device now being supplied to BMW as OEM kit. I do not have a UK supplier but they are available form Germany here. Priced at 10 Euro each plus shipping.

 

And

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Hi Derek

 

MotorWorks do second hand sensors for around £ 85.00

 

Is it possible that the drum that fits over the sensors had moved causing the damage ? as I beleive it can become misaligned.

 

I did a little digging and this link may be of help

http://k100rt.aforumfree.com/engine-and-transmission-f10/hall-sensors-t1524.htm

 

Damn that mans fast :thumbsup: beaten by andy again :)

Edited by oldyam
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Well, a quick check at work reveals that there are 251 Honeywell 2AV54 devices held by the US distributor with none in Europe, so your choices are: a used sensor assembly from Motorworks/Motobins/James-Sherlock. A new assembly from the above (or your dealer). Purchase from the USA - BeemerBoneyard are a good source. Purchase the Chinese equivalent from Germany.

Andsy

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Thanks Nigel. Yes I am sure that is what happened and I will check the alignment very carefully when I put it back together.

Still pondering on the forum advice re sourcing parts.

Regards, Derek

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Thanks Andy. I have also had private messages from a guy in the USA and one in Romania both of which I am considering, along with your very helpful suggestions. The Chinese alternative looks good - a pity no UK stockists yet. Any suggestions for a mail order source for the wire? I know its supposed to be teflon coated, yet able to fit.

Cheers, Derek

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  • 4 years later...

So maybe another preventative for this issue is to not cable tie the wiring harness to the engine although the harness is clamped in 3 places to the back plate of the HES. Are those points an issue as well or just further up the engine?

 

I would suggest using some nylon wiring harness coil wrap and cable tie that to the engine and let the wiring harness flow loosely within that coiled wrap. What we ususally do in aviation is to double cable tie to engine points.... a loop to the engine and another loop through that loop to the wiring harness to stand it off an eighth to a quarter of an inch from the hot surface to allow for some air cooling.

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