#566825 - 02/06/10 03:00 PM
Re: So, EXACTLY What Would it Take to Save Social Security?
[Re: CoarsegoldKid]
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Proprietor Emeritus
Member
Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 25640
Loc: Nipper's Corner, TN
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Hey, sounds good to me. If "need" is the essential criteria for taking money, I'm guessing we'll get all sorts of terrific suggestions on how to take it and how to spend it.
Sounds like a plan.
_________________________
See my most recent book on Amazon: http://amzn.to/bmwlink "Managing (Right) for the First Time, published by RockBench Press David C. Baker '05 R1200GS
'05 Playmobil3222
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#566826 - 02/06/10 03:05 PM
Re: So, EXACTLY What Would it Take to Save Social Security?
[Re: CoarsegoldKid]
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Member
Registered: 07/29/00
Posts: 5928
Loc: Indianapolis
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Government must get it where it is. Government shouldn't make promises government can't keep.
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#566859 - 02/06/10 05:47 PM
Re: So, EXACTLY What Would it Take to Save Social Security?
[Re: doc47]
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Member
Registered: 03/26/05
Posts: 6108
Loc: Saint Johns, FL
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Wow! This wealth envy here is amazing... Keep peeling this onion, we'll find "Step 2." pretty soon I think... 
_________________________
Matt
Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!
IBA 37694
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#566865 - 02/06/10 06:12 PM
Re: So, EXACTLY What Would it Take to Save Social Security?
[Re: Matts_VSTROM]
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Old Fart
Member
Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 9275
Loc: Sykesville, MD
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I guess the only solution is that when we stop working we die. That's how it used to be - except for the top x%. Hey, I'm still working!
_________________________
Age is a issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter...
Many years and 1 million (s)miles.
'05 R1200GS
Sykesville, Maryland
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#566900 - 02/06/10 08:39 PM
Re: So, EXACTLY What Would it Take to Save Social Security?
[Re: doc47]
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Member
Registered: 07/29/00
Posts: 5928
Loc: Indianapolis
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Asking the average worker to manage his/her own retirement income is smug, self-satisfied drivel. You believe ordinary folks can't buy savings bonds, cds, etc.; or, are you saying most folks need to have discipline enforced upon them by some higher power?
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#566914 - 02/06/10 09:37 PM
Re: So, EXACTLY What Would it Take to Save Social Security?
[Re: Blickstone]
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Member
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 2796
Loc: Sacramento, CA
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Asking the average worker to manage his/her own retirement income is smug, self-satisfied drivel. You believe ordinary folks can't buy savings bonds, cds, etc.; or, are you saying most folks need to have discipline enforced upon them by some higher power? Savings bonds, CD's, etc., historically, and by design, pay less than the annual rate of inflation. Investing in Savings bonds and CD's is a prescription for ending up with less money than you started with. Which, of course, is preferable to ending up with no money at all. Which is what the average worker would end up with if left to his own devices. I don't think there is any question that most folks need to have discipline enforced upon them by some higher power in order to save enough to make a meaningful contribution to their retirement. People always have current "needs" that supercede the need to save for retirement. Which gives rise to the first-time homebuyer exception for IRA withdrawals, etc. Even without these exceptions, it has been my experience as a CPA that people eventually take their money out of IRA's and 401(k)'s for something other than retirement, and just pay the penalties, even though it means in most cases that they end up with well under 50% of their money after taxes and penalties.
Edited by Dave McReynolds (02/06/10 09:46 PM)
_________________________
"Mankind's greatest problem is a perfection of means and a confusions of ends." - Einstein
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#566970 - 02/07/10 08:07 AM
Re: So, EXACTLY What Would it Take to Save Social Security?
[Re: Dave McReynolds]
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Member
Registered: 02/18/08
Posts: 2366
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Asking the average worker to manage his/her own retirement income is smug, self-satisfied drivel. You believe ordinary folks can't buy savings bonds, cds, etc.; or, are you saying most folks need to have discipline enforced upon them by some higher power? Savings bonds, CD's, etc., historically, and by design, pay less than the annual rate of inflation. Investing in Savings bonds and CD's is a prescription for ending up with less money than you started with. Which, of course, is preferable to ending up with no money at all. Which is what the average worker would end up with if left to his own devices. I don't think there is any question that most folks need to have discipline enforced upon them by some higher power in order to save enough to make a meaningful contribution to their retirement. People always have current "needs" that supercede the need to save for retirement. Which gives rise to the first-time homebuyer exception for IRA withdrawals, etc. Even without these exceptions, it has been my experience as a CPA that people eventually take their money out of IRA's and 401(k)'s for something other than retirement, and just pay the penalties, even though it means in most cases that they end up with well under 50% of their money after taxes and penalties. Enforced, no; provided with a level playing field, yes. Ask the people (many of whom were successful business owners) who lost most or all of their savings with Bernard Madoff. Over the past 30 years, we have seen a steady erosion of government regulation/oversight over the financial system, through legislation (repeal of Glass-Steagall 1999); administrative decision (SEC capital requirements 2004); or outright failure to carry out regulatory responsibilities (Madoff, Enron, Worldcom). It's a lose-lose situation: save conservatively with CDs and such, and you won't keep up with inflation; invest through "professionals", and there is at least a perceived risk of being fleeced. Yes, some people have the time to research and manage their own investments effectively, but very rarely is someone who is working two jobs just to cover housing, food, and healthcare.
_________________________
Don't fix it if it ain't broken, don't break it if you can't fix it
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#567075 - 02/07/10 12:47 PM
Re: So, EXACTLY What Would it Take to Save Social Security?
[Re: Selden]
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Member
Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 302
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Asking the average worker to manage his/her own retirement income is smug, self-satisfied drivel. You believe ordinary folks can't buy savings bonds, cds, etc.; or, are you saying most folks need to have discipline enforced upon them by some higher power? Savings bonds, CD's, etc., historically, and by design, pay less than the annual rate of inflation. Investing in Savings bonds and CD's is a prescription for ending up with less money than you started with. Which, of course, is preferable to ending up with no money at all. Which is what the average worker would end up with if left to his own devices. I don't think there is any question that most folks need to have discipline enforced upon them by some higher power in order to save enough to make a meaningful contribution to their retirement. People always have current "needs" that supercede the need to save for retirement. Which gives rise to the first-time homebuyer exception for IRA withdrawals, etc. Even without these exceptions, it has been my experience as a CPA that people eventually take their money out of IRA's and 401(k)'s for something other than retirement, and just pay the penalties, even though it means in most cases that they end up with well under 50% of their money after taxes and penalties. Enforced, no; provided with a level playing field, yes. Ask the people (many of whom were successful business owners) who lost most or all of their savings with Bernard Madoff. Over the past 30 years, we have seen a steady erosion of government regulation/oversight over the financial system, through legislation (repeal of Glass-Steagall 1999); administrative decision (SEC capital requirements 2004); or outright failure to carry out regulatory responsibilities (Madoff, Enron, Worldcom). It's a lose-lose situation: save conservatively with CDs and such, and you won't keep up with inflation; invest through "professionals", and there is at least a perceived risk of being fleeced. Yes, some people have the time to research and manage their own investments effectively, but very rarely is someone who is working two jobs just to cover housing, food, and healthcare. If we want our citizens to be able to spend freely with no worries of how or whether they are going to be cared for in their later years, requiring some form of personal savings for retirement/healthcare is not necessarily a bad idea. The legislators have some incentive to encourage carefree spending. When people are partying and spending money like rock stars, tax revenues go up. Of course, determing the choice of investments is another matter. I prefer to have individuals involved in the decision making. Regarding the scandals of recent years, it appears to me that the more creative folks have chosen to work in the private sector. The SEC has not kept up with the "creativity" of the private sector..
_________________________
Tom Ritter
Rules and Laws are no substitute for moral character.
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#567107 - 02/07/10 02:01 PM
Re: So, EXACTLY What Would it Take to Save Social Security?
[Re: Tom R.]
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Proprietor Emeritus
Member
Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 25640
Loc: Nipper's Corner, TN
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I guess if we can require health insurance (levying a fine on those who do not comply), maybe we can do the same with retirement savings. 
_________________________
See my most recent book on Amazon: http://amzn.to/bmwlink "Managing (Right) for the First Time, published by RockBench Press David C. Baker '05 R1200GS
'05 Playmobil3222
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