I have always had a deep respect for those who build quality stuff out of wood and have always had a desire to expand my talents in this area to be able to tackle some of the home improvement ideas my wife and I conjure up (cabinets, furniture and the like) I have some experience with home projects but have been reluctant to tackle anything requiring the precision of finer woodworking with he tools I have now. (low-end Craftsman table saw, power miter saw, basic power hand tools) While I know that I will probably never have professional skills at this, I would like to be able to put together some basic built-ins, maybe a simple end table, etc...without guests snickering when they see the handiwork.

I have been doing some studying on cabinet-making and wondering where a modest investment (say $1K-1.5K) in upgraded tools would deliver the biggest bang/versatility for the buck and provide a path for scalability as skills improve. Table saw w. accessories, or a good Router and table setup or modest investment in both. (or some other approach???)

The reading I've done lately , it looks like there are a couple of different approaches to doing precision joinery. Just wondering what the thoughts are from those who dabble in this as a primary hobby, or make a living at it..

What say you?

You may want to hookup with johnlt...
http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=554888&page=1

The three basic tools required for preparing wood that is straight, square and constant thickness are the table saw, the jointer and the planer. A table saw can be used to "edge joint" and a planer can be used to "face joint" but it takes a jig to do it. You'd be much better off getting quality used tools than cheap new ones. Your low-end charftsman table saw may be ok to start with but you need to really make sure it is set up correctly with all alignments verified. Try craigs list for good used tools. I'd also recommend taking a class in cabinet making. Some of the local woodworking shops offer classes. There are techniques that can be learned that really help the final product.

A good powerful router dedicated to a table setup that you can make yourself will give a lot of bang for the bucks. Don't buy cheap bits (avoid Sears). If you can find a used ShopSmith, it will get you a good drill press and horizontal boring machine and a ten inch disk sander that can be used for jointing. The table saw set up isn't much, but it makes a good woodlathe if you either want to get fancy or just like making things from firewood. Also, their bandsaw accessory is good.

Just noticed that you're in Tenn. My mother-in-law is selling my father-in-law's ShopSmith. PM me if you're interested.



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Aside from great tool suggestions, nothing beats a large, stable and flat worktop.

I'm a vicarious woodworker. Last year I stumbled on a Rockler store in Sandy Springs, GA. They also have a store in Nashville. Pure tool porn.

+1 on the Craigslist suggestions.

Check out your local community college for some woodworking classes - perhaps listed under cabinetmaking or construction technology.

In addition to building the pieces of woodworking, you will need to know how to do quality finishing work. For that, you may find it worth your while to hire a professional for applying the final finish. Do the staining yourself, but have a pro do the finish with the tools and techniques they have.

Perhaps trying a high-end refinishing job on an older resorable piece would be satisfying in it's own right.

Buy really good blades. A good blade will make a huge difference on an average saw, same goes for router bits.

I love Rockler being refered to as "tool porn"
That's where the good stuff is found!



Don J

That would be a fine first project. This table has been very handy for me.

Tools?

I have a Ryobi 10" table saw. Avoid cheap blades; they wobble and give a crappy cut.

I have a Porter-Cable router. Bought it used, along with a home-made router table. The table is really just a platform; it clamps to the rails of the table saw for support. I added an enclosure underneath that accepts a shop-vac hose for dust control.

I have a truckload of clamps. Iron C-clamps, quick/trigger clamps, pliers-style clamps, and half a dozen pipe clamps. Short-throat pipe clamps can develop plenty of force on large items; longer-throat pipe clamps (~4" throat) will make the pipe flex a lot, but are still pretty handy. I have some of each.

A set of brad-point drill bits. Less tear-out than ordinary bits, plus easier to start at a particular location without wandering.

A cheap stand-up drill press from Harbor Freight. Get a drill-press vise to go with it; assures right angles, and makes it easier/safer to hang onto small things while drilling.

DeWalt random-orbit sander. Comes with a dust collection bag, but the self-generated flow is pretty anemic. I attached a shop-vac fitting for dust control.

If you're going to do dowel joints, get a really good quality jig. I've bought a couple of cheap ones and then thrown them away.

Finally, get a real, full-fledged respirator. A good quality respirator with an airtight seal against your face can make applying stain/varnish much more pleasant, and can also protect against all kinds of dust (sanding dust, sweeping out the garage, etc.).

Visit www.woodworker.com ; request a paper catalog, much easier to browse randomly than the website. They have lots of interesting stuff.

Looks like the Manhattan Project to me.

Heh. Stay tuned; I'm almost done with my new sandblaster.

I gotta agree. My work top is 2 sheets of 3/4 construction ply on steel legs. I have been building a kayak and associated pontoons (http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/boat-plans/clc-sailrig-kayak-canoe-sailing-rig.html) for the last few years (when i'm not riding) and the workspace is definitely needed.

Currently have -
Ryobi 10" table saw
Ryobi Router (1/2" collet)
Bosch 3" belt sander
Bosch random orbital
Bosch detail sander
El Cheapo jigsaw
Battery drills - Ryobi 18V and Milwaukee 12V
Japanese 2 bladed hand saw

Want -
Jointer
Thicknesser
Drill press

Make sure you buy good hand tools as well. Don't buy cheap shite or you will regret it. They never last.I brought good stuff when i started my apprenticeship (electrician) and still have some of them after 25 years.

Cheers

Steve

As others have mentioned, get the best tools you can find, and used is okay -- top notch woodworking tools are made to be handed down. Spend time setting them up correctly with plenty of clear space around them. If the utility of a feature is lost on you, ask around.

I think one of the best things you can do is pick a precision project and do it with scrap wood first. Be ready to turn it into firewood -- it's just for practice. You can learn a lot about tools/techniques/yourself by making a trial run.

Making jigs and templates is a great way to try out your new tools.

Table size rules for saws and routers. I've got a 50's vintage Shopsmith that has proved to be a very useful and versatile tool, but I don't think it would serve a novice well for cabinetry unless you've got a patient helper. The extensions that are available don't really change the limited infeed and outfeed. Since the fence isn't very long, it can be a challenge to make long cuts with precision.

+1 for scouting Craigslist for a table saw, planer, jointer and router table. And +1 for good sharp blades -- pay the price and cry only once over those.

thanks for all the replies guys. I'm seeing some common threads in the feedback.

I'm doing a couple of things now:
(1.) evaluating joinery philosophies and trying to make some decisions on what to spend money on
(2.) beginning the research process on tools

What I am beginning to glean from all of this is that there is more than 1 way to do the same task. example; cutting dados, rabbets, etc...one could opt to invest in a good table saw for precision cutting of sheet goods and build on that foundation with other attachments for joinery tasks, OR use other methods for cutting sheet goods and handle the joinery activities with router-based tools. I was looking at THIS over the weekend and it piqued my interest to start this thread.

I suppose alot of this comes down to what one is comfortable with and what one got used to working with. I'll likely invest in a better table saw in the next year (something heavier/more stable, and with a more solid fence than what I have now) but definitely intersted in hearing other's opinions about what works or what you'd do differently.

I am definitely checked out on the idea of buying/using good blades. My equipment may not be top of the line, but I do buy quality blades and see the difference it makes. I do need a big work table too....trying to determine how I will do that witht he space I have avaialable.

good feedback guys, I'm all ears :lurk

I too agree on the importance of good blades. The best I've seen is the Forrest Woodworker II. A little pricey but well worth it.

Hey Mr. Nash,
The pictures of the table came up as red x, anyway I can get them to open?

Pics are hosted at Smugmug. They come up fine for me right now; is Smugmug blocked on your current terminal?

Just tried again and they are now opening (three previous failures) and I didn't do anything. I've no clue.

I retired a couple of months ago, and I've taken up woodworking for the winter.

I'm having a bunch of fun. I haven't used a table saw since high-school. I bought a used saw, and spent almost as much again for a good 10" blade.

I just finished a couple of flint-lock dueling pistols, and I'm building a fitted case for them. The case was daunting, so I started by building a jewlery box for my wife. The success of the smaller box incouraged me on the more complex gun case.

I'm finding the work very satisfying, and the wife says my shop smells much better than when I work on the bikes or the car!

When spring comes, and I roll up the big door, there's sure going to be a lot of sawdust to blow out.

For cabinetry look at Kreg
Quick, strong, versatile

uh-oh. <drool>

yeah, I was looking at that precision router table set-up. Looks like it doubles as a jointer, and can cut dados, rabbets, dovetails, etc....not to mention the possibilities for doing raised panel doors, panels, etc...

Anyone have experience with their stuff?

My brother has one of their angled fastener jigs. he does alot with it.

I have their pocket screw jigs, and they're well made.

I've made a few fine pieces.

When you finish your expensive power tool purchaces, expensive blades and bits, dust collection systems and find they all do a fine job at removing wood quickly, you should try some classical wood tools. A well tuned block plane. A baley #2. Try a cabinet scraper. Perhaps some spokeshaves. A few quality chisles. You will be amazed at the possibilities of creating most anything out of wood. And dust free. Plus, you might even learn that some of these tools can finish a board faster than the power stuff. I seldon have to sand anything.

I have an old craftsman tablesaw that I wish I could upgrade to a higher HP machine. But, with a bit of tuning and some jigs, it does great. I have a 12" dewalt compound miter. A 6" jointer. A portable thickness planer. A 16" bandsaw. 16" floor drill press. A very nice heavy rock maple bench with wooden vises and bench dogs that I built (similar to Tage Frig design). I have a few routers too.

My favorites are the tablesaw, bandsaw, my bench and the drill press. And, my assortment of planes, chisles and other handtools.

But, it really comes down to what you intend to build. You certainly wouldn't have a shop like mine for kitchen cabinets.

Although I am mostly into metalworking and have a fairly complete machine shop, the need to make some furniture prompted me to buy a few decent woodworking tools. I started with a good table saw, a Powermatic PM2000, and added a Milwaukee 5625-20 router mounted under the extension table of the saw. It was surprising to me how much I could do with just these two tools. Unfortunately it also set me off on a whole new tool buying spree and I have since added a bunch more woodworking tools, but a good solid table saw and a decent router mounted in a table can do quite a bit. The mounted router can be used as a jointer and a shaper amongst other things. One bit of advice, take it for what it is worth, don't cheap out on the table saw. Being able to make accurate, smooth, repeatable cuts makes things much easier. If a new, quality cabinet saw is not in the budget, do as was suggested in an earlier reply and buy a good used one. Spend the time setting it up carefully and it will be a pleasure to use. As was also mentioned previously buy good blades for the saw. I have had good luck with the higher end Freud blades. Consider a good dust collector as well.

I bought a Grizzle table saw about 15 years ago because for one thing it was what I could afford at the time... surprisingly it has been an excellent machine. It stays true and needs only minor adjustment... mostly because its in my unheated barn so it changes slightly with temperature. The only upgrade I would make is to add a better quality fence. Not saying that a more expensive machine isn't worth it but it really depends on if you're pursuing a hobby or running a business...IMHO

The Grizzly cabinet saws are actually pretty decent. Grizzly sells Biesemeyer fences too. Jet is another brand to consider. What I meant by my comment was to stay away from the light contractor saws that the big box stores sell. A lot of Grizzly woodworking machinery is good and the company is great to deal with.

I've seen several references to using routers as jointers. Yes it can be done, just as a table saw can joint but that is "edge jointing". Face jointing can only be done on a jointer or using a jig on a planer. I can't stress enough that getting the stock milled i.e. making your boards is the essential first step to building any project and requires tools to make straight, parallel and common thickness boards. That's how you start.

I am surprised (maybe I missed it) that no one has mentioned CLAMPS. You can never ever have enough, Carpenter clamps, pipeclamps, C-clamps, Quick clamps, etc. Plan on getting as many as you need and then double or triple it.

You missed it.

oops,sorry, looks like you got lots.

Pocket screw jig. I bought a pretty cheap one at Lowes and it works great. I use pocket screws to fasten solid wood faces on plywood so there's no nail holes and to pull the facing together.

I used to make furniture - desks, tables, armoires, credenzas, dressers, etc. I built my cabs in my latest house. I used a saw table, router, dado, finish nail gun, pin gun, belt sander, clamps, and a chopsaw. I cut brush lacquer 1/3 with lacquer thinner and spray it on with an inexpensive spray gun.

This is my low budget saw table.


I have project and shop pics on facebook.