BMWSportTouring BMWST DB
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
#619595 - 07/21/10 01:16 AM Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,851
johnlt Offline
Member
johnlt  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,851
Green Valley, AZ
One of my riding partners, Marty Mayer, lost his final drive near Sturgis on the way home from the UN/MOA. We attended the UN then rode up the MOA where he and Ted headed east to Cleveland and I went up to Seattle. Got a call from him today and he is at the BMW dealer in Sturgis (thanks to the MOA database of people who are willing to help). Not sure of the outcome but bad ending to a great trip.


johnlt
2009 BMW R1200 GS Adventure
2009 Yamaha WR250R
1975 R75/6 (loaned to my son....yeah right!!
#619647 - 07/21/10 05:31 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: johnlt]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
KDeline Offline
Member
KDeline  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
Well you can add another final drive as we sit here in Seattle waiting for parts and that is after I replaced a seized drive shaft today.

#619847 - 07/21/10 08:01 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: KDeline]  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 663
Traveler1 Offline
Member
Traveler1  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 663
SF Bay Area
Here's the address of a guy who'x keeping a record of BMW final drive failures.

http://www.bmwfinaldrive.com/fd_failure_list.php

You might want to post something there.


Thor

K1200GT
R100GS
R1200GS
Honda Africa Twin (sold)
#619858 - 07/21/10 08:28 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Traveler1]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,501
Marty Hill Offline
The Energiser Bunny
Marty Hill  Offline
The Energiser Bunny
Member

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,501
Atlanta, Ga.
John and Ken,

Sorry to hear this. Can't believe this crap is still happening to the new bikes.


Marty
49 states/32 countries/3 continents

700GS/white...old age moto



WWMHD...ride till you can't

Semper Paratus
#620334 - 07/23/10 06:09 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Marty Hill]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
KDeline Offline
Member
KDeline  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
Originally Posted By: Marty Hill
John and Ken,

Sorry to hear this. Can't believe this crap is still happening to the new bikes.



Well not so new, but frustrating and expensive, and should not happen to a low mile "Legendary Motorcycle of Germany". At least if I had a Harley there would be a dealer every 5 miles.

#620352 - 07/23/10 11:34 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: KDeline]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,124
BeniciaRT_GT-GT Offline
The Owl Hunter
BeniciaRT_GT-GT  Offline
The Owl Hunter
Member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,124
SF Bay Area,Ca. (Benicia)
I'm surprised to hear this... I haven't heard of any other failures... rofl rofl mad

BTW, the laughing isn't about Y'alls failures, just what you might hear from someone else...

Ken, sorry to hear, but how much $$$? Now extended warr.?


Richard
Where will U go next?

Whatever you do, LIVE!!!
#620372 - 07/23/10 01:00 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: BeniciaRT_GT-GT]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 289
marty mayer Offline
Member
marty mayer  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 289
north jackson ohio
Hello all,

Yea that was me again! Ted and I were on I90 heading east about 40 miles west of Sturgis SD. We were in some road constrction, I radioed Ted that I had a strange vibration, He radioed back that he does too. It's the road surface, I'm thinking hope he is right. Well after getting back on smooth road it got worse by the second. I told Ted either I get off the next exit or I am going to be sitting on the interstate. Got off pulled into a parking lot, got off the bike. The whole rear half of the bike was covered with oil with oil running out of the final drive. Sent Ted to try to find a hotel. Meanwhile started calling numbers in the MOA Anonymous book. 5 calls later got ahold of a very helpful young guy named Jason. He said he would be there in 20 min. with a truck. He showed up, we loaded the bike and he offered to take me to Sturgis BMW about 40 miles away. We went up there, unloaded the bike, I parked it in front of their front door. It was now about midnight. Luckily there was a hotel across the street. They had 1 expensive room left. We took it. I was waiting at their door when they opened the next AM. After explaining my situation, that I was 1400 miles from home. I kinda of thought they would look at it right away. Not the case. The service rep sat there staring at his computer screen, seemed like forever. I thought he was looking up parts. I told him I would happily buy the parts from him if they had them, If not, I have them with me as I have come to know it is only a matter of time before it would fail. Typical of most shops now days they didn't have the parts. But they would install mine. I was very grateful for that. I told him what year it was, he said he's not looking at that but he is looking at their schedule. Finally he said they would look at it in the afternoon. I hung out all day between the dealer and the hotel. They took it in in the afternoon and closed the door behind them. Their service department was kinda of like Fort Knox. Couldn't even get a peak in there. I went back a couple of hours later, They showed me pictures of the inside of my final drive. Don't know if they already had it back together at that point or not. Seemed a little odd. Showed up again at 5:30 asked if it would be done that day. They said they hoped so. They closed at 6:00. Finally was told it was done. The tech was washing it, trying to get the some of the oil off of it. The rear tire looked like it had been soaking in A Armorall all night. I went and bought a bottle of rubbing alcahol,and went to work trying to clean the tire. It helped a little. Since the rear brake pads also had been soaked they pretty much were useless the rest of the way home. Since I had to get the room earlier, before they sold out. I spent the night. Got up early and headed home. 1400 miles 20.5 hours later I was home. When I was sitting there trying to get help I was so mad I said that I am done with BMW. I realize that I am a big guy that carries a pretty heavy load on my bike (camping equip and other things) Maybe that has something to do with with the final drive failures. But I still am not at the max load for that bike. So I don't buy it. It is A design flaw. That crown bearing is not designed to be used in that kind of application. There are alot of Japanese bikes that have more weight, more horsepower. and more weight capacity. I have never heard of a final drive failure. I really like my bike. I have no desire for a different bike. But I don't think I want a bike that I have to carry major repair parts with me in anticipation of failure. It's not a good feeling being stranded 1400 miles from home and having to depend on strangers for help. The only good thing about this where it happened. John, Ted and I spent most of this trip on two lane back roads often without cell phone coverage. If this happened somewhere out there I would probably still be sitting out there. Thanks for letting me rant.

Marty

#620424 - 07/23/10 03:31 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: marty mayer]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 7
David in Tennessee Offline
Just Joined
David in Tennessee  Offline
Just Joined

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 7
Tennessee
Hey Marty...I hate to hear that. Especially scary since I currently ride another brand and am thinking of switching to BMW.

What model bike do you ride and are the final drive failures skewed toward one model verses another?


Drink Coffee! Do stupid things faster and with more energy!
#620468 - 07/23/10 06:10 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: David in Tennessee]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,959
Twisties Offline
Boots
Twisties  Offline
Boots
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,959
Brookings, OR
All the BMWs with the shaft drive are at issue. There are no real numbers out there, but for current generation drives most people think something like 1-5% experience a premature final drive failure. We have had a fair number of folk on this board experience two on the same bike. There have been some attention grabbing clusters, such as 4 failures in the 2007 Iron Butt.

So far we have no reports of injuries associated with these. There was one report of a minor fire, when spilled oil got hot enough to burn. There have been some close calls, folks stopped where they shouldn't ought to be, etc. But mostly it is a time and money issue.

BMW of course warrants bikes to 3/36, and covers final drives beyond this period on a case-by-case "goodwill" basis... e.g. sometimes.

There are a number of failure modes, some involving lubricated parts, and others not. BMW has made several engineering changes but it is not known yet if these will prove effective.

Bikes will need to get to a dealer, wait for inspection, parts and repair. If no weekend or holiday is involved you could be on the road next day, but delays of up to a week are also not uncommon considering how sparsely spread the BMW dealer network is and where folk ride these machines.

Repair costs are typically between $1000 - $2000, however ancillary costs may prove more.

Most of us, obviously, feel the issue is not a show stopper, but it sure rankles. One way to look at it though is that the cost of chains and sprockets might well total more than an occasional FD.

Anyway, plenty of threads here on final drives. Give "search" a try.


Jan

Sand Beige 2007 R1200RT "Flyer"



Blind Man Images on Facebook
#620595 - 07/24/10 12:37 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: marty mayer]  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,851
johnlt Offline
Member
johnlt  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,851
Green Valley, AZ
Marty, what was the fundamental failure? Was it the bearing? Glad you made it back ok. You almost did a BB1500!! At least our "touring ride" went well. I really enjoyed being part of the group with you. Cheers,

john


johnlt
2009 BMW R1200 GS Adventure
2009 Yamaha WR250R
1975 R75/6 (loaned to my son....yeah right!!
#620638 - 07/24/10 03:34 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: johnlt]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,842
mbelectric Offline
Member
mbelectric  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,842
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Find it hard to believe a Dealer would send you out the door with an oiled rear tire and junk brakes.

glad ya made it though.

MB>


74 R90S
98 K1200RS
03 1150RT
04 DRZ400
15 1200RTW

......and a Jeep Rubicon

BMWMOA, ABC.
IBEW 332
#620664 - 07/24/10 05:47 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: mbelectric]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
KDeline Offline
Member
KDeline  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
Originally Posted By: mbelectric
Find it hard to believe a Dealer would send you out the door with an oiled rear tire and junk brakes.

glad ya made it though.

MB>


I have delt with them in the past, so I can easily believe it.

#620665 - 07/24/10 05:51 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: BeniciaRT_GT-GT]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
KDeline Offline
Member
KDeline  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
Originally Posted By: BeniciaRT_GT
I'm surprised to hear this... I haven't heard of any other failures... rofl rofl mad

BTW, the laughing isn't about Y'alls failures, just what you might hear from someone else...

Ken, sorry to hear, but how much $$$? Now extended warr.?


The shaft and bearings with labor has cost us $1700.00, no extended warranty as I never have needed one until these bikes. IMHO you should not need one, it should not fail like this.

#620687 - 07/24/10 12:18 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: KDeline]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
tallman Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
tallman  Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
Tallahassee, Florida
Ken,
Perhaps he meant to ask if the repairs carry a warranty on them, which I think it does.
Like FB has said, an extended warranty is worthless, until it is needed.
That decision, is up to each one of us.
Jan is correct.
In some cases, the mileage on the bike at the time of FD failure and the cost to repair is often equivalent to or less than the cost of chains and sprockets.
NOt always.
Belts are different but when this topic came up there were plenty of examples of both failing.
The diff is obviously in the repair and dealership situations.

For many it is not a deal breaker, and I hope we don't have a spate of them.

I've always thought that one of the problems (and granted it should not be) is that in the USA we can motor for hundreds/thousands of miles with a loaded bike, almost non stop.
In Europe, that isn't possible due to road conditions, terrain, borders, etc.
I would like to see data comparing FD failure rates by geographic areas.
Yes, I've heard of low mileage FD failure.
But most of the one's I've known of involve bikes that are "ridden".
Not a criticism of the owner, that is what the bikes are for, just an observation.
Good luck Marty and Ken.


If my mind wanders, should I follow it?
Tim
Conch Town Krewe
2003 K 1200 GT
1996 R 100 RSL
1980 R 100 RT
1972 R 75
1968 R 50
All now gone...

#620697 - 07/24/10 01:19 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: tallman]  
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 12,058
Paul Mihalka Offline
Old Fart
Paul Mihalka  Offline
Old Fart
Member

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 12,058
Sykesville, MD
Comment on chain vs. shaft/rear drive: I prefer shaft drive to chain drive, but it is not only a question of money. Chain drive is a known maintenance item. If you replace it on time, usually no more problems. If there is, it is easy/cheap to fix. Shaft/rear drives are not a maintenance item except for oil change. If it fails it is a bad surprise usually in the middle of nowhere.


Age is a issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter... (Mark Twain)
Many years and 1 million (s)miles.

'05 R1200GS lotsa miles (sold)
'09 Yamaha Majesty - yes, a scooter
#620712 - 07/24/10 02:20 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Paul Mihalka]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 289
marty mayer Offline
Member
marty mayer  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 289
north jackson ohio
David,

To answer your question, In 01 I bought my first BMW a R1100RT.I was getting back into riding and wanted the best bike I could buy. On my way to the first UN the rear drive failed with 25K miles on the bike. I was somewhere neat Limon Co. on a desolate two lane road. Wasn't a a very good feeling. Took about 6 hrs. before I was able to get any help. Finally had the bike towed to a dealer in Colorado Springs. It was still under warranty. Was told it would take a few days to get the parts and repair it. I rented a car and went to the UN. Upon getting the bike home the rear drive had considerable lateral slop in it. Took it to a dealer near home and was told they don't repair them they replace them. After a several week fiasco it was finally fixed. At the point I kinda lost confidence in that bike and traded it in on a 04 GS1150 Adventure. Actually thought I got a good one this time. Other than several stick coil failures. I never even had and sign of impending rear drive failure. I change the rear drive oil every time I change oil just to see the drainplug magnet. It was always clean. My bike had about 71K miles on it before this trip. In anticipation of going to the Un this year I actually bought a new crown bearing, seal and o ring just to have with me. Shouldn't have to carry major repair parts in anticipation of failure. As you read above it ended up being needed. Also now days at least to me it seems that most dealers stock very few parts. The dealer in Sturgis didn't have them, luckily I did. I might still be there waiting on parts.

John,
In answer to your question. It was the large crown bearing. The cage came apart in it. I brought it home with me.

Marty

#620858 - 07/25/10 05:00 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: tallman]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
KDeline Offline
Member
KDeline  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
The thing is, I don't consider the bike loaded with just my gear on it and no passenger, maybe BMW has a different take on that.

#620881 - 07/25/10 01:19 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Paul Mihalka]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,977
hANNAbONE Offline
Member
hANNAbONE  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,977
Versailles, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Paul Mihalka
Shaft/rear drives are not a maintenance item except for oil change. If it fails it is a bad surprise usually in the middle of nowhere.



pAUL - thank you for this...but something greatly troubles me when BMW, in its ignorance, didn't even put a rear drive drain plug in my '07 K12R.sport...and all the other RT's and such from '05 to '06 to '07 I believe.

I couldn't agree more that they need proper oiling/oil changes. But the BS that BMW shovels us for 3 years and then goes back to normal drain plugs in everything makes me wanna move to the next manufacturer.

After all these rear drives going south - and then to complicate it by telling the public, "they don't need the oil changed in the rear drives - we don't need no steekin' drain plug" ... well, it makes me wonder what other internals have they done to short change the public.

It just doesn't make sense to me...and I thought about it all the way home in the heat of Nevada.

MHO only.


h A N N A b O N E
.F.O.G.Member & Friend of Signman & Paul Mihalka

2012 Black Yamaha XT1200Z Super Tenere'
Versailles, Windy-Anna
#621055 - 07/26/10 01:41 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: KDeline]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
tallman Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
tallman  Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
Tallahassee, Florida
Originally Posted By: KDeline
The thing is, I don't consider the bike loaded with just my gear on it and no passenger, maybe BMW has a different take on that.


Ken,
I agree.
What I mean by loaded is the bike has bags and extra gear on it, not that it exceeds the carrying capacity.
I think it has more to do with duration of the rides and cumulative miles under those conditions, not total miles, for the bikes that fail and that is why some go with low miles and some with high miles and most don't fail.
No rhyme or reason to point at a particular year/moodel.
Hope your trip still ends well.


If my mind wanders, should I follow it?
Tim
Conch Town Krewe
2003 K 1200 GT
1996 R 100 RSL
1980 R 100 RT
1972 R 75
1968 R 50
All now gone...

#621094 - 07/26/10 04:15 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Paul Mihalka]  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,324
CoarsegoldKid Offline
Member
CoarsegoldKid  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,324
Coarsegold, Ca, USA
Paul, Tim, and others that work at BMW shops. Do your parts departments carry at least one of the appropriate part sets needed to affect a repair to the FD without requiring an overnight delivery? And one more question. How may failures have your shops seen on these bikes?


Joe

'05 R1200RT 109K miles, takes me down the highway.
'13 KTM 690 Enduro R 16K miles takes me through the woods.
#621144 - 07/26/10 01:33 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: CoarsegoldKid]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
tallman Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
tallman  Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
Tallahassee, Florida
When the BMW dealership was still open, we replaced FD, not repaired them.
I saw one '05 GS that had 4 replacments.
happened every 28-30k on that bike, something amiss with it but all replaced under warranty of new FD time periods.
Saw one other GS '05 (from same dealer up north) at 35,940.
Very few others.
I thpough initially it was something with the new 1200 as we didn't see 1100/1150 FD failures.
Since then, seen it in several diff models.
Wish I had some insight as to why/which ones/etc, but I don't.
None of our overseas members seem to post a lot about it, perhaps I just missed those posts, but that led me to conjecture about what is different wrt riding over here.
Long stretches of wide open roads?
I don't really know.

We used to pull a unit off of a similar floor model and get a traveller back on the road.
For otheres an order for a new FD was made and it took little to longer to get part.


So, no, not an "in stock" item.
I really haven't "seen" more than a handful of bikes involved.
Of course I've read of many more, and even though it is a very small percentage, it should be dealt with.
In most cases if the bike was over mileage but under 36 mos. the repair was goodwilled.
Best wishes.


If my mind wanders, should I follow it?
Tim
Conch Town Krewe
2003 K 1200 GT
1996 R 100 RSL
1980 R 100 RT
1972 R 75
1968 R 50
All now gone...

#621430 - 07/27/10 04:40 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: tallman]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
KDeline Offline
Member
KDeline  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
Well now my final drive is starting to weep oil on the foot brake side. Am I losing this one to as I sit here in Whitehorse with the closest dealor more then 800 miles away? Do I need to head east and abort my attempt? When/if I get back home I am going to have a long talk with my dealer-salesman.

#621459 - 07/27/10 09:38 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: KDeline]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
tallman Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
tallman  Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
Tallahassee, Florida
Ken,
Take pictures, time/date.
Good luck.


If my mind wanders, should I follow it?
Tim
Conch Town Krewe
2003 K 1200 GT
1996 R 100 RSL
1980 R 100 RT
1972 R 75
1968 R 50
All now gone...

#621473 - 07/27/10 12:02 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: tallman]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,977
hANNAbONE Offline
Member
hANNAbONE  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,977
Versailles, Indiana
sO sORRY to hear it, Kenny.


h A N N A b O N E
.F.O.G.Member & Friend of Signman & Paul Mihalka

2012 Black Yamaha XT1200Z Super Tenere'
Versailles, Windy-Anna
#621475 - 07/27/10 12:17 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: hANNAbONE]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 289
marty mayer Offline
Member
marty mayer  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 289
north jackson ohio
Ken, I know how you feel. When mine came apart last week I was surprised that there was still no lateral slop, side to side or top to bottom. Although the rear of the bike was covered with oil and oil was running out of the final drive. But when you would spin the rear wheel you could feel the rumble in it. I would be checking for both symptoms. Sorry to hear about your troubles, at least I was somewhat near a dealer.

Marty

#621484 - 07/27/10 12:56 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: KDeline]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,959
Twisties Offline
Boots
Twisties  Offline
Boots
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,959
Brookings, OR
Originally Posted By: KDeline
Well now my final drive is starting to weep oil on the foot brake side. Am I losing this one to as I sit here in Whitehorse with the closest dealor more then 800 miles away? Do I need to head east and abort my attempt? When/if I get back home I am going to have a long talk with my dealer-salesman.


confused

Sometimes it might just be a seal. Keep oil in it, if you can, and check as Marty indicated for signs of deeper trouble.


Jan

Sand Beige 2007 R1200RT "Flyer"



Blind Man Images on Facebook
#621887 - 07/28/10 08:51 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Twisties]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,242
longjohn Offline
Member
longjohn  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,242
lax
Originally Posted By: Twisties
Originally Posted By: KDeline
Well now my final drive is starting to weep oil on the foot brake side. Am I losing this one to as I sit here in Whitehorse with the closest dealor more then 800 miles away? Do I need to head east and abort my attempt? When/if I get back home I am going to have a long talk with my dealer-salesman.


confused

Sometimes it might just be a seal. Keep oil in it, if you can, and check as Marty indicated for signs of deeper trouble.


Yep. Another member lost a seal coming home from Un and had if fixed in under an hour for less than $100 in Santa Rosa.


John

2005 R1200RT 3.8k 31k 71k and rising
1990 PC 800 (dead) 100+k
1979 Yamaha XS750F (sold) 79k
Large avatar

#621995 - 07/29/10 06:38 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: longjohn]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
KDeline Offline
Member
KDeline  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
Then by my count there has been 4 final drive issues with just the folks at the UN, two with Kate and I alone? And this is not adnormal by BMW standards? Nice.

#622056 - 07/29/10 01:31 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: KDeline]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
tallman Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
tallman  Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
Tallahassee, Florida
And this may, or may not be, about what to expect.
4 instances, not all failed FD's out of 130+ bikes.
That is in the 3% range.

But, looking back at 10 El Paseo's and several BRR's I think the failure rate has been less than 1% at those and many times no instances of problems.

Maybe it's the "dry heat"?

Good luck.


If my mind wanders, should I follow it?
Tim
Conch Town Krewe
2003 K 1200 GT
1996 R 100 RSL
1980 R 100 RT
1972 R 75
1968 R 50
All now gone...

#622058 - 07/29/10 01:34 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: tallman]  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,287
SageRider Offline
Member
SageRider  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,287
Minden, Nevada
Quote:
... 10 El Paseo's and several BRR's ...

FWIW, these tend to be more regional events, so most riders do not put on the sort of mileage required by many to attend a left or right coast Unrally.


Michael
2010 Unrally IX Sierra Adventures Co-Chair
KE6GYC 2M/440
'12 F800-GS Trophy: (dearly departed)
'06 R1200-RT, Piedmont RED! (dearly departed)
'99 R1100-RT (dearly departed)
Minden, Nevada
#622062 - 07/29/10 01:41 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: KDeline]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 325
rad Offline
Member
rad  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 325
Santa Cruz, CA
Originally Posted By: KDeline
Then by my count there has been 4 final drive issues with just the folks at the UN, two with Kate and I alone? And this is not adnormal by BMW standards? Nice.


With all do respect, It may be time for you to move on. I have been where you are, final drive failure hell thousands of miles from home. I had to walk, ride, away from BMW for 5 years.

This final drive issue is way old news, same old, same old, for the last decade. You either accept the fact that the final drive repair is part of the BMW deal or you become a very unhappy man.

Good luck with what ever bike you pick.

#622064 - 07/29/10 01:44 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: SageRider]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
tallman Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
tallman  Offline
Picture Perfect Humorist
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 19,665
Tallahassee, Florida
Yes, and no.
How many riders who came to the UN rode over 400 miles?
What percentage?
There were a lot of folks there from far and near.

At the EP's and BRR's there are many riders who do that.
Not arguing that the Un doesn't get more long distance riders, and in fact, that is part of my theory, that the long droning rides, which are UNcommon in Europe, may contribute to seal/FD failure.

However, at the first El Paseo, we had riders from over 1,000 miles west and north, plus plenty of 500-700 mile trips.
Then 3-800 miles of riding, then trip home.
Don't recall a FD failing.
Do recall 2 feet of snow and winds so bad bikes had to be parked by some.

There may not be any causal factors, it may purely be luck of the draw, some minor assembly difference, I don't know, but it anecdotally seems that maore report are made during long trips, particualarly out west with wide open distances between locales.
Makes me wonder.
Best wishes.


If my mind wanders, should I follow it?
Tim
Conch Town Krewe
2003 K 1200 GT
1996 R 100 RSL
1980 R 100 RT
1972 R 75
1968 R 50
All now gone...

#622071 - 07/29/10 01:53 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: tallman]  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,287
SageRider Offline
Member
SageRider  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,287
Minden, Nevada
Quote:
How many riders who came to the UN rode over 400 miles?

Over 90%


Michael
2010 Unrally IX Sierra Adventures Co-Chair
KE6GYC 2M/440
'12 F800-GS Trophy: (dearly departed)
'06 R1200-RT, Piedmont RED! (dearly departed)
'99 R1100-RT (dearly departed)
Minden, Nevada
#622095 - 07/29/10 02:33 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: SageRider]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,501
Marty Hill Offline
The Energiser Bunny
Marty Hill  Offline
The Energiser Bunny
Member

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,501
Atlanta, Ga.
The only point is that there were not 4 final drive failures.
Do we now count a weepy seal as a F/D failure?

Anyone who is unhappy or afraid of the failure rate should really consider moving to a different brand.

Both Ken and Marty are friends of mine and I wish it hadn't happened to them. They posted their frustration and should have...but what is the point of of the constant piling on by others. Do you think BMW is watching and will suddenly change something?


Marty
49 states/32 countries/3 continents

700GS/white...old age moto



WWMHD...ride till you can't

Semper Paratus
#622100 - 07/29/10 02:37 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Marty Hill]  
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 12,058
Paul Mihalka Offline
Old Fart
Paul Mihalka  Offline
Old Fart
Member

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 12,058
Sykesville, MD
"Do you think BMW is watching and will suddenly change something?"

They should.


Age is a issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter... (Mark Twain)
Many years and 1 million (s)miles.

'05 R1200GS lotsa miles (sold)
'09 Yamaha Majesty - yes, a scooter
#622136 - 07/29/10 03:48 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Paul Mihalka]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,501
Marty Hill Offline
The Energiser Bunny
Marty Hill  Offline
The Energiser Bunny
Member

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,501
Atlanta, Ga.
Originally Posted By: Paul Mihalka
"Do you think BMW is watching and will suddenly change something?"

They should.


Your right, but this saga has been going on for years and is would appear that nothing has been done.


Marty
49 states/32 countries/3 continents

700GS/white...old age moto



WWMHD...ride till you can't

Semper Paratus
#622168 - 07/29/10 05:00 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: CoarsegoldKid]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,339
AviP Offline
Member
AviP  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,339
New Canaan, CT
Has anyone reported these defects to the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation? You never know! Here's the link to filing a complaint.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm


-Avi
97 Viper GTS --- 99 YZF R1 --- 00 R1100 RT --- 01 Bullet C500 --- 07 Ram 1500 MegaCab --- 13 Outback 3.6R
#622209 - 07/29/10 06:44 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: AviP]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 325
rad Offline
Member
rad  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 325
Santa Cruz, CA
Originally Posted By: AviP
Has anyone reported these defects to the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation? You never know! Here's the link to filing a complaint.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm


yes

#622397 - 07/30/10 05:21 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Marty Hill]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
KDeline Offline
Member
KDeline  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
Originally Posted By: Marty Hill
The only point is that there were not 4 final drive failures.
Do we now count a weepy seal as a F/D failure?



I hope mine is not, so far it is holding, but we have another problem, posted in Hexheads. This is wearing us out.

#623127 - 08/02/10 12:01 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Paul Mihalka]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,977
hANNAbONE Offline
Member
hANNAbONE  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,977
Versailles, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Paul Mihalka
"Do you think BMW is watching and will suddenly change something?"

They should.


...bING...we've got another winnah..!


h A N N A b O N E
.F.O.G.Member & Friend of Signman & Paul Mihalka

2012 Black Yamaha XT1200Z Super Tenere'
Versailles, Windy-Anna
#623239 - 08/02/10 07:02 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Marty Hill]  
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,833
UberXY Offline
Member
UberXY  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,833
Virginia
Originally Posted By: Marty Hill
T

Anyone who is unhappy or afraid of the failure rate should really consider moving to a different brand.




Or try a different kind of BMW rear drive. I have a BMW belt, chain, and non-paralever shaft.

Last edited by UberXY; 08/02/10 07:07 PM.

05 K12S
86 R65
........................
Newtons third law: if you want to go someplace, you have to leave something behind.


#624690 - 08/08/10 10:58 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: SageRider]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 289
marty mayer Offline
Member
marty mayer  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 289
north jackson ohio
Just thought I would let you know how helpful BMW was after I sent them a lengthy letter explaining 10 yrs. of BMW ownership. Two different bikes 3 trashed final drives.Stranded twice. I was surprised that they even called me, although the call was useless. I was told that I should take my bike to the nearest dealer and let them go through the final drive. I told them that I just paid a dealer to do that, and they told me they think I will make it home. I am getting madder by the minute. I also have sent a letter to the NHTSA explaining just how dangerous this is. Next I think I am going to send a copy of my letter to Motorcycle Consumer News. To those that are in love with BMW I am sorry if this offends you. I no longer am feeling the love. I do understand that my bike has 75K miles on it. I told the BMW rep that we both know that there is a design flaw with their final drives but I am sure they would never admit it. His reply was that all he can say was that I wasn't the first person to call about final drive issues. Still trying to talk to them again, but so far they wont call me back. I figure if the first guy (Arron) cant help, I want to talk to someone who can. Just had to vent a little.

Marty

#624962 - 08/09/10 01:52 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: marty mayer]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 541
Angel Offline
Member
Angel  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 541
Fort Worth TX
GO Marty GO!!!!


Angel Ilarraza
2005 R1200RT
2013 K1600GT
#625259 - 08/10/10 01:46 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: marty mayer]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
KDeline Offline
Member
KDeline  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
Well we will be doing the same thing if we get home, so far $2200.00 in 5 weeks and 7000 miles to keep this thing on the rode. A shaft, rear bearings, clutch slave, and that is still leaking, and a fuel strip 3 days before we left. I have 700,000 BMW miles and Kate has 275.000. If that has no influence, the Honda Norge is looking pretty good.

#625264 - 08/10/10 01:54 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: KDeline]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,842
mbelectric Offline
Member
mbelectric  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,842
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Originally Posted By: KDeline
the Honda Norge is looking pretty good.


eek

didja mean Motoguzzi?

MB>


74 R90S
98 K1200RS
03 1150RT
04 DRZ400
15 1200RTW

......and a Jeep Rubicon

BMWMOA, ABC.
IBEW 332
#625320 - 08/10/10 05:30 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: mbelectric]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 128
Beagler Offline
Member
Beagler  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 128
Sacramento, CA
How about the new triumph Sprint GT? Standard ABS, nice hard bags. Chain drive, so no surprise failures, just a little more maintenance. Less than 14,000. Looks good too.


I am in the prime of senility.
Benjamin Franklin

2007 R1200S Yellow
1996 R1100RTL Sienna Red
#625704 - 08/11/10 11:12 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Beagler]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,868
OoPEZoO Offline
Member
OoPEZoO  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,868
Amish Country, PA
Originally Posted By: Beagler
How about the new triumph Sprint GT? Standard ABS, nice hard bags. Chain drive, so no surprise failures, just a little more maintenance. Less than 14,000. Looks good too.


That is most likely where my next motorcycle money will be spent. All it has to do is pass the Danielle test. I really hope she doesn't hate the pillion seat.

I love my bike, but I have pretty much got the sh*ts of wrenching on it and the newer bikes are not giving me any kind of confidence for a good replacement.


-Keith (Yup, thats me...and my rubber chicken)

Making the world a better place, one rubber chicken at a time!

'98 Buell S1 Lightning
'06 R1200GS
'86 Honda CB125
'00 R1100RT (parting out, PM me)
#625878 - 08/11/10 08:51 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: OoPEZoO]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 501
Willie Offline
Member
Willie  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 501
York, PA USA
Originally Posted By: OoPEZoO
Originally Posted By: Beagler
How about the new triumph Sprint GT? Standard ABS, nice hard bags. Chain drive, so no surprise failures, just a little more maintenance. Less than 14,000. Looks good too.


That is most likely where my next motorcycle money will be spent. All it has to do is pass the Danielle test. I really hope she doesn't hate the pillion seat.

I love my bike, but I have pretty much got the sh*ts of wrenching on it and the newer bikes are not giving me any kind of confidence for a good replacement.


But Keith, pretty soon your bike will be completely new again thumbsup I think I'm with ya on the Sprint GT. Good reviews so far from across the pond. I'm spoiled with my adjustable windshield though. We'll all have to run up to the Triumph dealer and talk the Ladies into a test ride on a GT. Since this is a FD thread, thanks a ton for helping me out with mine. New bearings make the bike ride smooth as silk. Or else its from the bike being lighter from less weight in my wallet...


2002 BMW R1150RT Silver 2001 Kawasaki KLR650 Faded Green
#626069 - 08/12/10 12:56 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: OoPEZoO]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 325
rad Offline
Member
rad  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 325
Santa Cruz, CA
Originally Posted By: OoPEZoO
[That is most likely where my next motorcycle money will be spent.


If that is true, just consider buying used. I can't think of a marquee that has a worse re-sale value than Triumph. Don't know why, just is.

I like the Sprints, other than they still cook my right leg.

#626092 - 08/12/10 01:53 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: rad]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,868
OoPEZoO Offline
Member
OoPEZoO  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,868
Amish Country, PA
Oh yeah.....no doubt. I wouldn't dream of buying a brand new bike, especially a Triumph. My local Triumph/BMW dealer consistantly gets 1 year old Sprints in with under 5k miles on them and has them listed in the ~$9-$10k range. Right now they have a leftover '09 demo w/ABS sitting there with ~3k miles on it and the full 2 year unlimited mile warranty.

One of these days I'll venture over for a test ride, but I don't want to start that process until I'm 100% ready to pull the trigger on something.


-Keith (Yup, thats me...and my rubber chicken)

Making the world a better place, one rubber chicken at a time!

'98 Buell S1 Lightning
'06 R1200GS
'86 Honda CB125
'00 R1100RT (parting out, PM me)
#626133 - 08/12/10 03:49 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: KDeline]  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,828
Fugu Offline
Member
Fugu  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,828
Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: KDeline
At least if I had a Harley there would be a dealer every 5 miles.


There has to be.

Buddy is finishing a round the country loop. Bike puked in Montana (oil pump sucked air) and again in California (stator). 48k highway miles on it. At least it's godawful heavy and slow. my poor bike jack could barely lift it off the ground.

I've never been stuck anywhere on a BMW, or had a real breakdown (a broken accessory wire I didn't secure well enough doesn't count- I lost sat radio for a bit- OH THE HORROR)


-------------------

2000 R1150GS
#626330 - 08/13/10 03:42 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: Fugu]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
KDeline Offline
Member
KDeline  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
Originally Posted By: Fugu


I've never been stuck anywhere on a BMW, or had a real breakdown (a broken accessory wire I didn't secure well enough doesn't count- I lost sat radio for a bit- OH THE HORROR)



I had a record like that for 23 years until the new oilheads came out. Then only one till I got these bikes, now 7 cross country breakdowns in 3 years.

#626597 - 08/14/10 01:58 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: KDeline]  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 626
RevRay Offline
Member
RevRay  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 626
Nowhere
[/quote]

I had a record like that for 23 years until the new oilheads came out. Then only one till I got these bikes, now 7 cross country breakdowns in 3 years. [/quote]

Ken,
I feel for you, I hate the company but love the bike. Is that possiable? For me it is about the ergos.
By any chance do your bikes have consecutive serial numbers?
Ray


RevRay
CO2W
Waste No Curve
#626620 - 08/14/10 02:58 AM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: RevRay]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
KDeline Offline
Member
KDeline  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,392
They are 5 numbers apart.

#626687 - 08/14/10 02:07 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: RevRay]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 325
rad Offline
Member
rad  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 325
Santa Cruz, CA
Originally Posted By: RevRay
I feel for you, I hate the company but love the bike. Is that possiable? For me it is about the ergos.
By any chance do your bikes have consecutive serial numbers?
Ray


I have been where Ken is now, destroyed clutch splines, tranny failures and rear drives failing 2,000 miles from home. I was so pissed that I rode Hondas for the next 5 years.

Yet, I got back on another BMW. For me it was realization that if I wanted a nimble light weight touring bike only BMW made one. Even the brand I love, Honda, made a heavy slug of a touring bike, the ST1300 and the Kawi and FJR were not far behind.

This time around I accepted the fact that the rear drive will in fact fail. My plan is to ship it off to Cutter for a proper rebuild and re-shim prior to it failing if I can find a cheap enough used spare rear drive to throw on while mine is being rebuilt. I already checked and lubed the splines, replaced the paralever bearings and replaced the tranny seals on the Oil Head RT I picked up a few months ago. After the rear drive is upgraded there is almost no other common mechanical failure for a major component that Iím worried about other than the Hall sensor and that commonly happens at 100K type mileage and Iím nowhere near that yet.

It was nice not having those worries traveling around the country on my Honda; but, it like every bike had its achllies heal/s. Electrical, cam chain tensioners and thermostats were its bugabooís. The good news was that I had every one of those problems but they were not the strand you type of failures.

One other huge selling point for me coming back to a BMW; I do my own work and working on the Japanese brands, nothing it simple. They are very complicated engines to do even basic work on other than oil changes.

#626943 - 08/15/10 12:49 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: johnlt]  
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 30
NJRTrider Offline
Newer Member
NJRTrider  Offline
Newer Member

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 30
Annandale, NJ
Another data point...

2008 R1200RT with 20k miles - rear drive failed. I checked the play in the rear wheel and mine had 1/2" of play. Strange thing is I checked the play 2 weeks before while rotating the engine during a valve clearance check and noticed just a very slight amount of play. So it happened quick.

Bike is still in shop but according to the service guy aluminum flange is pressfit onto steel hub and the flange came loose??? Mechanic tried to press-fit new flange onto hub but then decided to instead replace entire rear drive assembly. Again this is according to service guy.

I changed the FD fluid at 600 miles with Mobil 1, then at 2k miles, then every 5k interval - easy to do and I previously had a GS that the FD failed so I was extra cautious.

I sure do love the RT and it's great for long 2-up trips but I'm thinking about a new Connie now ...


08 BMW R1200RT
06 Ducati Multistrada 1000S
09 Husqvarna TE450
07 Honda XR650L
#627597 - 08/16/10 11:04 PM Re: Another final drive trashed on the way home from the UN [Re: NJRTrider]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 443
SEATTLE_RIDER Offline
Member
SEATTLE_RIDER  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 443
Camano Island, WA
Wow............haven't looked or posted here for quite some time. Wanted to read about the UN that I missed and get into the FD horror stories. Really bummed me. I attended the MOA National in Redmond, OR and it was the usual great ride on my R12GSA.
Strange though.........just weeks after getting home and unwinding by riding around our Island on my Bonneville I visited the local Harley Dealership. Last HD I had was a '98 Road King. Anyway.....I JUST BOUGHT A 2010 ROAD KING!!!!!!!! Just couldn't resist after reading all about the new frame, etc. Now I've gotta re-arrange the garage again........

cheers,


Mike in Seattle/Camano Island
'07 R12GS Adventure; '09 Triumph Bonnie; 2010 Road King Past: Trumpets, Beezers, Honda, Aprilia, bunches of Harleys http://www.r1150rt.smugmug.com/
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.033s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 3.2234 MB (Peak: 3.7898 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-11-18 17:41:42 UTC