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#643841 - 10/10/10 03:42 AM Re: Heard a wind turbine? [Re: Jerry_75_Guy]  
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Dave McReynolds Offline
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Dave McReynolds  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jerry_75_Guy
Originally Posted By: ShovelStrokeEd
I have always favored the idea of using our considerable space capabilities to just launch the stuff back into the sun.


Me too (really), but the fact that smarter people than I weren't, apparently, seriously considering the idea, lead me to think that I must have been ignoring some basic math that might get in the way. Dunno.


I have no expertise in this at all (not that that's ever stopped me from commenting), but what is the probability that a rocket will blow up at some point before it is safely out there in outer space, spewing its contents over the earth? Since that has already happened, I assume the probability is somewhere in the range of 1/1,000 (or so). I assume it would take quite a few rockets to get all the waste removed, so I would imagine that the probability of something going terribly wrong, cumulatively, is much greater than with other methods of disposal?

Last edited by Dave McReynolds; 10/10/10 03:45 AM.

Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. ~Einstein
#643845 - 10/10/10 04:05 AM Re: Heard a wind turbine? [Re: Dave McReynolds]  
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1springer Offline
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1/1000 to risky for me! I could live with a failure rate of 1/1,000,000 but the consequences even at 1/1,000,000 make it completely unacceptable.


2013 Triumph Tiger 800
04 1150 RT ( sold )
#643867 - 10/10/10 01:03 PM Re: Heard a wind turbine? [Re: 1springer]  
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tallman Offline
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Tallahassee, Florida
I say we move our nuclear waste and death row population to the same site.
"half-Life" in prison would be the new sentence minimum.
smirk

Rationing ala WWII with rolling brownouts.
Instead of "cash for clunkers" tax credits for maintaining mpg averages above X.
A slow lane for those who want to drive at 45-50 mph and conserve.
Since we invested in Interstates rather than trains, we placed the societal expectation in the backseat of your new Chevy rather than a window seat in fast, efficient, inexpensive public transport.

I think we should reManhattan Project with the best/brightest and create both alternative uses and applications but a mindset that will support a new social use policy.

If not, we'll be burning the "No Nukes" signs to keep warm.


If my mind wanders, should I follow it?
Tim
Conch Town Krewe
2003 K 1200 GT
1996 R 100 RSL
1980 R 100 RT
1972 R 75
1968 R 50
All now gone...

#643899 - 10/10/10 03:38 PM Re: Heard a wind turbine? [Re: tallman]  
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SageRider Offline
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Quote:
what is the downside for storing waste inside one of the most stable geologic formations on earth?

Please tell me where this formation is.
It isn't Yucca Mountain.
Part of the facility has already been relocated due to being on an earthquake fault.
Yucca Mountain as the location was not a scientific decision, but a political one.
In 1987, the choices had been narrowed down to 3 sites (Hanford, WA, and Deaf Smith County, Texas were the other 2), and scientific studies begun to determine which was best.
Congress pre-empted the studies and chose the location with the least political might.
Might Yucca Mountain still have been chosen based on science? Possibly, but that was not the case. The decision to "screw Nevada" is where much of the opposition comes from.


Quote:
Probability that a rocket will blow up at some point before it is safely out there in outer space, spewing its contents over the earth?

I'm sure that the same Yucca Mountain scientists that can guarantee safe emission levels from Yucca Mountain out 1 million years can construct the perfect rocket too...


As a general question, why would anyone want to locate all the high level waste for the USA (as well as possible imports from other countries) in one spot?
Talk about a target.......
Easier to defend/protect one site than many? Maybe, but since no defense is foolproof, I'd much rather have smaller amounts of waste in more spots.
Reduce both the value of the target and the penalty for a penetrated defense.

It does seem highly irresponsible to me to continue accelerating the creation of this high level waste without a method to make it safe......


Michael
2010 Unrally IX Sierra Adventures Co-Chair
KE6GYC 2M/440
'12 F800-GS Trophy: (dearly departed)
'06 R1200-RT, Piedmont RED! (dearly departed)
'99 R1100-RT (dearly departed)
Minden, Nevada
#643978 - 10/10/10 10:55 PM Re: Heard a wind turbine? [Re: SageRider]  
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1springer Offline
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Soggy Bottom, WA
"As a general question, why would anyone want to locate all the high level waste for the USA (as well as possible imports from other countries) in one spot?
Talk about a target.......
Easier to defend/protect one site than many? Maybe, but since no defense is foolproof, I'd much rather have smaller amounts of waste in more spots.
Reduce both the value of the target and the penalty for a penetrated defense".

Because it is far easier to detect and defend a facility that has miles of fairly empty space around it rather that what surrounds many of the Nuke sites. Plus it (Yucca) is many miles inland and trust me we would see them air or ground way out. Plus you have several military assests a stones throw away and an all out defense, if needed, could be done with out fear of schools, churches, malls, etc.. Yes, by all means lets put high value targets in population centers!

"The decision to "screw Nevada" is where much of the opposition comes from."

Yes, I can appreciate the feelings. But seriously just how has NV been negatively impacted? Up until recently the NV (and I'm speaking of the LAX area) economy was booming. No doubt, a lot of the $$'s that funded Yucca stayed in NV, that was a bad thing? Too bad the project was halted, you might have used the $$'s to offset your less than stellar economy.

Perhaps, since it's been 23 years since you were screwed, you need to find a way use the situation to your advantage, and no offense intended get over it. smile


2013 Triumph Tiger 800
04 1150 RT ( sold )
#643985 - 10/10/10 11:58 PM Re: Heard a wind turbine? [Re: 1springer]  
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1springer Offline
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I'm sorry I meant "LAS" is the last post not LAX. Too may moving parts...I guess.


2013 Triumph Tiger 800
04 1150 RT ( sold )
#644024 - 10/11/10 03:10 AM Re: Heard a wind turbine? [Re: 1springer]  
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MotorinLA Offline
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Check your rearview...
Interesting reading.

If wind farms are so detrimental to RADAR, how did they manage to put the ones in Tehachapi so close to Edwards Airforce Base, a major aeronautical testing grounds? Must not be as bad as some want it to appear.

Having lived in northern Europe during the Chernobyl incident, I'd have to say I have some reservations about nuclear power. Perhaps the specialists on this board could ease my fears, by explaining how a highly toxic by-product that stays potent for millions of years and is highly corrosive to most known storage devices is not a problem. Especially when stored undergorund close to our ground water. Call me paranoid, but I think wind turbines are a little safer at least in that respect.


1987 600 Honda Hurricane (stolen)
1987 1100 Suzuki GSXF (dead)
1988 1100 Suzuki GSXF (sold)
2003 R 1150 RT-P (retired work bike)
2006 R 1200 RT-P (new work bike)
#644027 - 10/11/10 03:29 AM Re: Heard a wind turbine? [Re: 1springer]  
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SageRider Offline
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Minden, Nevada
Quote:
But seriously just how has NV been negatively impacted?

To date it hasn't been. To date, the project is unfunded...
I do wonder how you would have felt if Hanford was the (purely political) choice instead.
And if that does not disturb you, it's not too late to start lobbying now!


Michael
2010 Unrally IX Sierra Adventures Co-Chair
KE6GYC 2M/440
'12 F800-GS Trophy: (dearly departed)
'06 R1200-RT, Piedmont RED! (dearly departed)
'99 R1100-RT (dearly departed)
Minden, Nevada
#644362 - 10/12/10 03:04 AM Re: Heard a wind turbine? [Re: SageRider]  
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1springer Offline
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As you say the project is halted....with no $$'s on the horizon. But, if there is a resurgence of N. Power in the country, which I seriously doubt, a HL waste facility will be built......and most likely in NV. And I will support it then, as I did when I lived in NV. It wouldn't bother me in the least to have it built in WA.

I have enough faith, based on 32 years experience, that the Safety Analysis and regulatory process would ultimately decide where a HL waste facility would be built, regardless if the initial siting decision was "Purely Political" or not.


2013 Triumph Tiger 800
04 1150 RT ( sold )
#644363 - 10/12/10 03:07 AM Re: Heard a wind turbine? [Re: MotorinLA]  
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Originally Posted By: MotorinLA
Interesting reading.

If wind farms are so detrimental to RADAR, how did they manage to put the ones in Tehachapi so close to Edwards Airforce Base, a major aeronautical testing grounds? Must not be as bad as some want it to appear.

Having lived in northern Europe during the Chernobyl incident, I'd have to say I have some reservations about nuclear power. Perhaps the specialists on this board could ease my fears, by explaining how a highly toxic by-product that stays potent for millions of years and is highly corrosive to most known storage devices is not a problem. Especially when stored undergorund close to our ground water. Call me paranoid, but I think wind turbines are a little safer at least in that respect.


Can't argue with you!


2013 Triumph Tiger 800
04 1150 RT ( sold )
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