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#663295 - 12/19/10 10:45 PM Re: Hybrid Hatred (Volt related) [Re: Ken H.]  
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Paul Mihalka Offline
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Paul Mihalka  Offline
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Sykesville, MD
I think some people drive Prius etc. because for their use it makes sense. If I would have to commute into Washington DC from where I live (no closeby Metro) I would consider it. I think Moshe Levy wrote that his commute 105 miles daily. That in New Jersey. The Prius probably makes a lot of sense for his use, besides all the other reasons he has to own it.


Age is a issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter... (Mark Twain)
Many years and 1 million (s)miles.

'05 R1200GS lotsa miles (sold)
'09 Yamaha Majesty - yes, a scooter
#663297 - 12/19/10 10:47 PM Re: Hybrid Hatred (Volt related) [Re: Whip]  
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pbharvey Offline
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Highland, MD
Originally Posted By: Whip


I would pay a lot of money for a Mercedes diesel SUV that got 30 MPG and could tow a trailer cross country.



The ML350 with the BlueTEC diesel is rated at 18/25 mpg; tows 7200#.

(Oddly the ML450 Hybrid is only rated at 20/24 mpg and is only available for lease.)


Brian
#663298 - 12/19/10 10:50 PM Re: Hybrid Hatred (Volt related) [Re: pbharvey]  
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Whip Offline
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San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: pbharvey
Originally Posted By: Whip


I would pay a lot of money for a Mercedes diesel SUV that got 30 MPG and could tow a trailer cross country.



The ML350 with the BlueTEC diesel is rated at 18/25 mpg; tows 7200#.

(Oddly the ML450 Hybrid is only rated at 20/24 mpg and is only available for lease.)



18 to 25 means about 21.5 combined.

Our 4 X 4 Suburban gets 18 combined on gas.

Not enough of a difference.


I am their leader, which way did they go?
#663304 - 12/19/10 10:58 PM Re: Hybrid Hatred (Volt related) [Re: Whip]  
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moshe_levy Offline
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NJ - God Help Me
Originally Posted By: Whip
Base price on the Camry is $19k

Base price on the Volt after big bro rebate is $33k

14k buys a lot of gas

Without electricity they get within 4 mpg of each other.

Read the links above.



Whip, I think comparing the Volt "without electricity" sort of misses the point, don't you think? A little strange to compare the absolute best the Camry can do (33mpg) to the absolute worst the Volt can do (37MPG on gas) and totally just ignore the added efficiency of the DC drive?

And as I said before, you can't compare a base Camry to a Volt - ***comparably equipped*** they're about the same price (as you forgot to factor in state rebates, which are sometimes quite significant and can bring a Volt to well below $30k).

In the end, the math is pretty simple. The cars cost the same (unless we go round and round, and I tell you a moped and an RT are the same thing because both have an engine and two wheels) and one gets EPA 60MPG, the other EPA 22MPG city, EPA 33MPG highway. It does not take a math wiz to see where this goes. Is it really swallowing such a bitter pill to say, "Yeah, maybe this isn't so bad after all?"

-MKL


http://www.mklsportster.com/
2015 BMW R1200RT-LC
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
1987 Yamaha YSR50
1973 BMW R75/5
"Lihiyot am chofshi b'artzeinu..."
https://www.youtube.com/c/motomouthmoshe
#663308 - 12/19/10 11:07 PM Re: Hybrid Hatred (Volt related) [Re: moshe_levy]  
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Matts_12GS Offline
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Enfield, CT
That all works great if you live in a place where you get the feel good rebate. If you don't, it's a more expensive smugmobile.

Nice math Mr. Levy, please, show your work...


Matt


2005 1200GS (Traveller)
IBA 37694

" ...if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else? " --Ronald Reagan
#663311 - 12/19/10 11:15 PM Re: Hybrid Hatred (Volt related) [Re: Matts_12GS]  
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moshe_levy Offline
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NJ - God Help Me
What part of my work, Matt? Fed rebate ($7500) applies to everyone everywhere in the USA. State rebates vary - look up what (if any) rebate you can get in your state. CA for example plans to offer an additional $5k once its rebate program is in place. I haven't looked up NJ for my dad because we're leasing, not buying, so to us it doesn't apply.

-MKL


http://www.mklsportster.com/
2015 BMW R1200RT-LC
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
1987 Yamaha YSR50
1973 BMW R75/5
"Lihiyot am chofshi b'artzeinu..."
https://www.youtube.com/c/motomouthmoshe
#663313 - 12/19/10 11:20 PM Re: Hybrid Hatred (Volt related) [Re: Ken H.]  
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upflying Offline
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Reno, NV
Originally Posted By: Ken H.
Originally Posted By: russell_bynum
I thought I was pretty clear that it was the sanctimonious douchebags who often drive Priuses (Prii?) that I have a problem with.

Now thereís a stereotype if Iíve ever seen one written.

Is it just even remotely possible Russell that at least some of those "douchebags" you so willingly disparage might be doing/driving the way they are because they believe it is the right thing to do?

See there Ken, you just confirmed what most of us Prius haters suspected. Believing in the right thing to do is that pompous, conceited, smuginess, holier than thou attitude that makes Prius owners so repulsive. Stereotypically speaking of course, a Prius represents a rolling, in your face statement of political correctness. It represents all the reasons why I would never buy one even though I am otherwise devoted to owning high mpg vehicles.


Bob
Reno,NV

2014 HD FXDC
2001 HD FLHPi (former work bike)
2009 HD FLHPi 103" (former work bike)
1972 Honda CT-90 garage queen

Logical politics is the Holy Grail of oxymorons.
#663314 - 12/19/10 11:21 PM Re: Hybrid Hatred (Volt related) [Re: moshe_levy]  
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Matts_12GS Offline
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Enfield, CT
Originally Posted By: moshe_levy
What part of my work, Matt? Fed rebate ($7500) applies to everyone everywhere in the USA. State rebates vary - look up what (if any) rebate you can get in your state. CA for example plans to offer an additional $5k once its rebate program is in place. I haven't looked up NJ for my dad because we're leasing, not buying, so to us it doesn't apply.

-MKL
show me both car stickers as you compare them.
kwh prices for jersey
show me the basis for your HONEST comparison, not your agenda, it shouldn't be that hard


Matt


2005 1200GS (Traveller)
IBA 37694

" ...if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else? " --Ronald Reagan
#663317 - 12/19/10 11:35 PM Re: Hybrid Hatred (Volt related) [Re: Whip]  
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roadscholar Offline
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N. Fla.
Originally Posted By: Whip
Originally Posted By: pbharvey
Originally Posted By: Whip


I would pay a lot of money for a Mercedes diesel SUV that got 30 MPG and could tow a trailer cross country.



The ML350 with the BlueTEC diesel is rated at 18/25 mpg; tows 7200#.

(Oddly the ML450 Hybrid is only rated at 20/24 mpg and is only available for lease.)



18 to 25 means about 21.5 combined.

Our 4 X 4 Suburban gets 18 combined on gas.

Not enough of a difference.



Just did some looking, people that own the '08 3.0 CDI are getting 29.5 on the highway in the real world.
If you get one I'll buy it from you in 7 or 8 years when it's got 200,000 miles on it. smile wave

I used to tow a race car with an 80's MB 5 cyl. turbodiesel wagon, great tow car (the wagons had self-leveling rear suspension up to 1000 lbs.). In 1983 myself and a buddy went from Jax to Monterrey and back in a little over 4 days, towing one racecar there and another back (on an open trailer), we shut the engine off once and stayed in a motel for about 6 hours outside L.A. It got over 20mpg while doing 80 most of the time.


Bill

I didn't just ride in on a Buell.

MOA 80884
RA

R1200GS Adv, KTM 950 Adv, F800GS, Husky Terra 650
#663318 - 12/19/10 11:38 PM Re: Hybrid Hatred (Volt related) [Re: Matts_12GS]  
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moshe_levy Offline
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NJ - God Help Me
Originally Posted By: Matts_VSTROM

show me both car stickers as you compare them.
kwh prices for jersey
show me the basis for your HONEST comparison, not your agenda, it shouldn't be that hard


You're right, it's not.

Re MSRP stickers just follow Whip's links to Edmunds. Pricing is there and you can add up a Camry XLE 4 cylinder to comparable levels to a Volt - $30k.

Re EPA MPG figures, again, right from Whip's links to Edmunds.

KWH prices here in NJ hover around 12 cents for most of the day, but going on that figure would be incorrect. I would imagine most people charge overnight when rates shrink to much lower levels. KWH prices vary by service provider so what goes for me may not go for my neighbor with a different service. (That, and my solar panels go up in 3 months, so soon my electricity will be practically free during the day!)

-MKL


http://www.mklsportster.com/
2015 BMW R1200RT-LC
2013 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
1987 Yamaha YSR50
1973 BMW R75/5
"Lihiyot am chofshi b'artzeinu..."
https://www.youtube.com/c/motomouthmoshe
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