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#729210 - 09/22/11 10:45 PM Re: What have you learned from Keith Code? [Re: Lone_RT_rider]
Matts_12GS Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/05
Posts: 9474
Loc: Austin, TX
Originally Posted By: Lone_RT_rider
Originally Posted By: Kinsley
An inside line on a blind right hander is not a tool I wish to use on the street.


Amen brother. Ridem wide and deep. Wait... that just didn't sound right. dopeslap


you've been doing that a lot lately.
Turducken!
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Matt


2005 1200GS (Traveller)
IBA 37694
"When small men begin to cast big shadows, it means that the sun is about to set." --Chinese writer Lin Yutang (1895-1976)

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#729334 - 09/23/11 11:35 AM Re: What have you learned from Keith Code? [Re: Matts_12GS]
Pat Buzzard Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 160
Loc: KS, USA
As with most things, the situation dictates the lines we take.
_________________________
"Pigs will fly, if you kick them hard enough!"

'99 R1100RT "Das Bike"
'99 R1100RS "Das Kleine Motorrad"
----------------
'95 HONDA NIGHTHAWK 750 (sold)

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#729343 - 09/23/11 12:07 PM Re: What have you learned from Keith Code? [Re: Pat Buzzard]
Kinsley Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 1955
Loc: ATL and to the Right
Originally Posted By: Pat Buzzard
As with most things, the situation dictates the lines we take.


Of course, but you have to have a basic philosophy and that philosophy should be based on safety for street riding. Since we riders get most of our information visually, it makes sense to gather as much information as possible by positioning for the best view through a corner. Unless there is a hazard to avoid, this would usually dictate a late turn in and apex.
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#729388 - 09/23/11 03:01 PM Re: What have you learned from Keith Code? [Re: Huzband]
Keith Code Offline
Just Joined

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 6
Loc: So Cal
Agreed, you must begin by having some sort of a standard to measure yourself against. When it comes to lines you evaluate what a good one is by taking into account the other things that it will influence if done well or done poorly. As noted by Kinsley, there is the visual aspect which is better. Based on line of sight you can see more of what the turn does from the classic wide and late entry point.

Next criteria is how many steering inputs you want to give the bike for any given corner. The fewer the better in my approach and one is the ideal.

Next would be bike stability which is solely bases on good throttle control. Which type of line would allow for the earliest possible moment to get back to gas and achieve proper balance of tire loads.

Next would come potential speed. Which sort of line allows for max potential speed. Not using max speed, fine, that just means you have more options once you are in the turn at a shallower lean.

Then, you look at the negatives of any line that would require more lean mid corner to exit, which also is a detriment to that road gripping good throttle control you had to begin with.

Then you might peek at surprise second-half-of-turn surprise slippery situations. If you are on a line that has any tendency to run you wide at the exit you aren't left with any joyous options if you have to go through it.

Then, you look at unfamiliar road situations and the possibility of that crowd pleaser-the surprise decreasing radius bend. Any line that would set you up to have the option to be able to late apex would be a plus, any line that tended to run you in on lower lines and early apex would make it difficult without a big
change in speed.

The list goes on. You might consider which sort of line would tend to force trailing the brakes leaned over judged against a line that didn't force you to. It's fine if you trail it's fine if you don't depending on road conditions and speed.

I might think of some more but I just had eye surgery and it's hard sitting in this weird chair with my head suspended in space.

Keith
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#729398 - 09/23/11 03:30 PM Re: What have you learned from Keith Code? [Re: Keith Code]
Kinsley Offline
Member

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 1955
Loc: ATL and to the Right
Thanks Keith.....see you on the 8th at Willow clap
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"Ride fast enough that you can't take your mind off riding, but not fast enough to worry about crashing"

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#729508 - 09/24/11 07:18 AM Re: What have you learned from Keith Code? [Re: Huzband]
Pat Buzzard Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 160
Loc: KS, USA
Thanks Keith, that was very well put
_________________________
"Pigs will fly, if you kick them hard enough!"

'99 R1100RT "Das Bike"
'99 R1100RS "Das Kleine Motorrad"
----------------
'95 HONDA NIGHTHAWK 750 (sold)

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#730302 - 09/27/11 01:50 PM Re: What have you learned from Keith Code? [Re: Pat Buzzard]
Keith Code Offline
Just Joined

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 6
Loc: So Cal
I was thinking about something similar the other day and wrote a piece for my "Motorcyclist" magazine column about measuring things and how it's easy to become enthralled with one's own pet ideas and miss the reality of it. I can say that only because I've done it myself in years past and had to suck it up when a skill or drill or coaching technique wasn't all I had imagined. The column piece should come out I think December issue, maybe January...I never know.

Keith
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#730465 - 09/28/11 07:25 AM Re: What have you learned from Keith Code? [Re: Keith Code]
Horse Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Blighty
Originally Posted By: Keith Code
Next criteria is how many steering inputs you want to give the bike for any given corner. The fewer the better in my approach and one is the ideal.


There's a suggestion in UK road training that the 'perfect' line for bends (and this is based on police training) should be to - when safe - stay out wide for view then, when the exit is visible, go onto a wider radius line coming in to the 'apex' (albeit that term isn't used) then out wider.

But what many riders haven't worked out is that if you take a set line into a left bend, eg parallel to the centre line over here or the right hand kerb in the US, then taking a wider line will make you run out of lane!

In fact, it's necesary to turn slightly tighter first, then take the wider line . . .

I call it the 'secret second steer' smile


GWS wink



Edited by Horse (09/28/11 07:27 AM)
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#730692 - 09/28/11 10:48 PM Re: What have you learned from Keith Code? [Re: Keith Code]
Huzband Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 7617
Loc: Cowford, Fl.
Interesting you should bring this up. I, actually several of us here in N. Fl., ride with a fellow that will practice different techniques from corner to corner on the same ride. Sometimes he hangs off, sometimes only his upper body is inside, & sometimes he seems to do nothing with regard to body english. None seem to be wrong mind you, but just different. For what it's worth, he rides a 12RT, as do I, & he's DAMN FAST!!!, no matter his technique.
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'07 R12GSA (Moose)
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'90 RMX 250 (woods weapon)
'08 Black Lab (Auto)
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#730783 - 09/29/11 08:31 AM Re: What have you learned from Keith Code? [Re: Matts_12GS]
OoPEZoO Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 5821
Loc: Amish Country, PA
Originally Posted By: Matts_12GS

riding my GS requires far less input to make the same turn at the same speed as my 1100RT did while maintaining as much contact patch as possible.


Funny you mention that Matt. I have almost 5k miles on my GS now and I still haven't managed to put together a comfortable cornering technique for it yet. I've hit a nice groove a few times, but nothing like I could on mt RT. I don't know if its the change in ergos versus my RT or more if I'm just not riding as much as I used to. The few people I've ridden with claim I'm riding just as fast, but I feel no where near as comfortable or smooth as I did on the RT. Those wide handlebars make it super responsive (almost twitchy). The technique I always used on my RT had me moving my upper body forward and out over the jugs, weight on the footpegs, with a slight shift in seating position depending on the severity of the corner. For some reason, I can't duplicate it on the GS. If I try, I feel like I'm going to go in the ditch. Due to the larger distance between the pegs and seat, I feel like it prevents me from properly taking the weight off of the seat. This leaves me feeling awkward and sloppy in the corners. I was kinda hoping to file in with a few of the GS riders at the UN this year to get a look at what techniques people are using to ride them, but didn't get the chance. It also doesn't help that probable 3500 of that 5k miles has been 2up.
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Making the world a better place, one rubber chicken at a time!

'98 Buell S1 Lightning
'06 R1200GS
'86 Honda CB125
'00 R1100RT (parting out, PM me)

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