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#751788 - 01/06/12 09:40 PM Re: "Learning Curve" [Re: Bernie]
Huzband Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 7401
Loc: Cowford, Fl.
KC Twist of the Wrist II is not RideSmart, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.
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Danny

'07 R12GSA (Moose)
'04 Sherco 2.9 (Sherpa)
'97 KTM 400 R/XCe
'90 RMX 250 (woods weapon)
'08 Black Lab (Auto)
IBA #30344


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#752273 - 01/09/12 07:28 AM Re: "Learning Curve" [Re: Huzband]
Horse Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Blighty
Originally Posted By: Huzband
Originally Posted By: Horse
Originally Posted By: Huzband
Originally Posted By: CoarsegoldKid

Maybe as the previous post suggests a review of Keith Code's TTW2 book will cement the process of throttle control. I don't suggest you are applying power incorrectly. I'm suggesting that your understanding of what is happening using throttle, brake and steering input at speed while leaned into a curve is incorrect.


+1

Close the throttle . . . in a curve & the bike stands up.


Really? No other changes to steering or body position, just closing the throttle?

Does that mean, then, that opening the throttle will tighten the line?


Yes & yes.


Must make it very difficult for racers to accelerate out of corners . . .
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#752489 - 01/09/12 11:04 PM Re: "Learning Curve" [Re: Horse]
Huzband Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 7401
Loc: Cowford, Fl.
Take it up with Keith Code.
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Danny

'07 R12GSA (Moose)
'04 Sherco 2.9 (Sherpa)
'97 KTM 400 R/XCe
'90 RMX 250 (woods weapon)
'08 Black Lab (Auto)
IBA #30344


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#752520 - 01/10/12 07:00 AM Re: "Learning Curve" [Re: Huzband]
Jim Moore Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 2430
Loc: Jax, FL
Guys,

I think some of us are learning the wrong lessons from the books, or maybe taking things to literally. Opening the throttle does not tighten your line. Having the throttle cracked open takes weight off the front end and puts your suspension in the middle of its travel, both of which make it easier to stabilize the bike in the turn.

Once in a stabilized turn with the throttle cracked open, you can use the throttle to tighten the turn by rolling off a tiny amount, or open the turn by rolling on a timy amount. Note that I said a tiny amount. Code warns against the survival reaction of snapping the throttle shut, which is entirely different from a tiny, smooth throttle adjustment mid-turn. As a note, that's one of the reasons you want to be in the upper third of your rpm range in a turn. It gives you the ability to instantaneously fine-tune your line with the throttle

The front brake will stand the bike up because the front wheel is pointed into the turn. Using the front brake points the front wheel further into the turn, in effect countersteering out of the turn.

Hold on there, Jimbo! What about trail-braking? that's supposed to sharpen your turn, right? Well, yes and no. Trail braking steepens your rake, and slows the bike, both of which give you more turn for a given control input. however, you still have to fight the tendency of the bike to stand up. In fact, I'm told that people who do this for a living use that as a signal that the front tire is sliding. When the bike quits trying to stand up, you're losing the front.

If you want to continue your riding education for a reasonable price, take the Ed Bargy school at Jennings. He packs a TON of info into a single day.
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Jim Moore Jax, FL '99 R1100S '02 R1150GS

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#753527 - 01/15/12 07:06 AM Re: "Learning Curve" [Re: Jim Moore]
Horse Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Blighty
Originally Posted By: Jim Moore
I think some of us are learning the wrong lessons from the books, or maybe taking things to literally. Opening the throttle does not tighten your line. Having the throttle cracked open takes weight off the front end and puts your suspension in the middle of its travel, both of which make it easier to stabilize the bike in the turn.

Once in a stabilized turn with the throttle cracked open, you can use the throttle to tighten the turn by rolling off a tiny amount, or open the turn by rolling on a timy amount. Note that I said a tiny amount. Code warns against the survival reaction of snapping the throttle shut, which is entirely different from a tiny, smooth throttle adjustment mid-turn.

The front brake will stand the bike up because the front wheel is pointed into the turn. Using the front brake points the front wheel further into the turn, in effect countersteering out of the turn.


Cheers for all that ^ it ties with my understanding except:

As a note, that's one of the reasons you want to be in the upper third of your rpm range in a turn. It gives you the ability to instantaneously fine-tune your line with the throttle

May depend on the bike; if you have a grunty engine eg K100 then that'll pull nicely from low revs.
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#753553 - 01/15/12 12:40 PM Re: "Learning Curve" [Re: Horse]
Jim Moore Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 2430
Loc: Jax, FL
Originally Posted By: Horse
May depend on the bike; if you have a grunty engine eg K100 then that'll pull nicely from low revs.


True to some extent. But it will pull harder from the upper third of the rpm band, and you will have more capability to tighten your line with a slight throttle roll-off.
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Jim Moore Jax, FL '99 R1100S '02 R1150GS

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#753632 - 01/15/12 08:49 PM Re: "Learning Curve" [Re: Jim Moore]
Bernie Offline
Member

Registered: 04/28/02
Posts: 1544
Loc: Jax, FL
Lower gear and higher rpm's are your friend in the curves. Would have maybe saved my friend from a very long recovery and painful recovery period.
Saving fuel is not that important and way cheaper that crashing.
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Bernie
Jax, FL
2007 R1200RT, Double Silver
BMW-MOA, BMWOutriders
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#753638 - 01/15/12 08:58 PM Re: "Learning Curve" [Re: Bernie]
Huzband Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 7401
Loc: Cowford, Fl.
Like Jim mentioned before, we're talking about two different scenarios. Track racing vs. street riding.

What say we separate threads?
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Danny

'07 R12GSA (Moose)
'04 Sherco 2.9 (Sherpa)
'97 KTM 400 R/XCe
'90 RMX 250 (woods weapon)
'08 Black Lab (Auto)
IBA #30344


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#753648 - 01/15/12 09:39 PM Re: "Learning Curve" [Re: NORMBATES]
ESokoloff Offline
MR. Sweet Pea
Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 5564
Loc: SoCal
Sorry about your mishap.
You may find useful info here.
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Eric

============

GM267

PM31613

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#753679 - 01/16/12 06:00 AM Re: "Learning Curve" [Re: Bernie]
Horse Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Blighty
Originally Posted By: Bernie
Lower gear and higher rpm's are your friend in the curves. Would have maybe saved my friend from a very long recovery and painful recovery period.


What happened?
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