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#766519 - 03/17/12 07:04 PM Re: Global Climate Change [Re: Bill_Walker]
Aluminum_Butt Offline
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Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 1138
Loc: Carpentersville, IL
Quote:
But the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is the "thermostat" for the planet. Too little, and you get Mars, a very cold planet.

From Wikipedia, "The atmosphere of Mars is relatively thin and is composed mostly of carbon dioxide (95.32%)."

Quote:
Too much, and you get Venus, a very hot planet.

From Wikipedia , "The atmosphere of Venus is composed mainly of carbon dioxide"

Based on this scientific data, I can conclude that the quantity of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has absolutely no impact on a planet's surface temperature.

rofl

Seriously, though, for all those saying that GW skeptics spend all their time trying to refute the data of the GW proponents...that is the only logical way to do a negative proof.
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#766520 - 03/17/12 07:12 PM Re: Global Climate Change [Re: Selden]
Bill_Walker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 3669
Loc: San Marcos, CA USA
Originally Posted By: Selden
There are certainly religious aspects to the anthropogenic climate change discussion, not unlike "If you don't do some thing, you're going to hell." Did Gandhi go to hell because he wasn't Christian? I don't think so. I'm not worried about going to hell, and if we screw up the climate too badly, too bad for our species, but the planet (and life) has survived worse things than homo sapiens.


There is quite a bit of similarity to the debate over creationism, as well.

But you're right about the last part. As George Carlin put it, "The planet will be fine. The people are f***ed!" A whole lot of other species will be adversely affected, as well.
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#766521 - 03/17/12 07:18 PM Re: Global Climate Change [Re: Aluminum_Butt]
Bill_Walker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 3669
Loc: San Marcos, CA USA
Originally Posted By: Aluminum_Butt
Quote:
But the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is the "thermostat" for the planet. Too little, and you get Mars, a very cold planet.

From Wikipedia, "The atmosphere of Mars is relatively thin and is composed mostly of carbon dioxide (95.32%)."


Yeah, I oversimplified. Mars suffers from a poor greenhouse effect, but not from low CO2. From the NASA page cited earlier:
"The planet Mars has a very thin atmosphere, nearly all carbon dioxide. Because of the low atmospheric pressure, and with little to no methane or water vapor to reinforce the weak greenhouse effect, Mars has a largely frozen surface that shows no evidence of life."
Quote:


Seriously, though, for all those saying that GW skeptics spend all their time trying to refute the data of the GW proponents...that is the only logical way to do a negative proof.


Except that's not what they do. What they do is try to create "the death of a thousand nit-picks".
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#766592 - 03/18/12 08:08 AM Re: Global Climate Change [Re: Selden]
tallman Online
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 17742
Loc: Tallahassee, Florida
Originally Posted By: Selden
There are certainly religious aspects to the anthropogenic climate change discussion, not unlike "If you don't do some thing, you're going to hell." Did Gandhi go to hell because he wasn't Christian? I don't think so. I'm not worried about going to hell, and if we screw up the climate too badly, too bad for our species, but the planet (and life) has survived worse things than homo sapiens.




Yes, Ghandi went to hell.
Didn't like it, so he changed it.
Devil moved to Hollywood, liked it.
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#766678 - 03/18/12 06:08 PM Re: Global Climate Change [Re: tallman]
Bill_Walker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 3669
Loc: San Marcos, CA USA
Originally Posted By: tallman

Yes, Ghandi went to hell.
Didn't like it, so he changed it.
Devil moved to Hollywood, liked it.


Actually, maybe Ghandi didn't go to hell. He did say he liked Jesus, after all. smile
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#766698 - 03/18/12 07:35 PM Re: Global Climate Change [Re: Bill_Walker]
KDeline Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/01
Posts: 3392
Originally Posted By: Bill_Walker
Originally Posted By: SeanC
No, you've got that completely wrong, Bill. I'm not saying it's not warming nor am I saying we're not contributing to the warming. I'm asking a basic scientific question: Of the total climate change, what is mankind's contribution to it (expressed as a percentage or ratio)?

There is no such thing as climate "balance" or "stasis." It's continually in a state of change. So, are we speeding up the change or slowing it down, and if so, by how much?


The best estimate, Sean, is that humans are responsible for slightly more than 100% of current warming, because a number of the natural climate forcings are currently negative. In other words, without us, it would be getting colder now.

See A Comprehensive Review of the Causes of Global Warming.



Which brings up the next denied topic................Wait for it Sean.................Population growth affecting climate change.....TA DA....This should be good.

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#766732 - 03/18/12 10:21 PM Re: Global Climate Change [Re: Lineareagle]
pbharvey Offline
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Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 716
Loc: Highland, MD
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#766734 - 03/18/12 10:35 PM Re: Global Climate Change [Re: Bill_Walker]
Huzband Offline
Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 7415
Loc: Cowford, Fl.
Originally Posted By: Bill_Walker
Originally Posted By: SeanC
No, you've got that completely wrong, Bill. I'm not saying it's not warming nor am I saying we're not contributing to the warming. I'm asking a basic scientific question: Of the total climate change, what is mankind's contribution to it (expressed as a percentage or ratio)?

There is no such thing as climate "balance" or "stasis." It's continually in a state of change. So, are we speeding up the change or slowing it down, and if so, by how much?


The best estimate, Sean, is that humans are responsible for slightly more than 100% of current warming, because a number of the natural climate forcings are currently negative. In other words, without us, it would be getting colder now.

See A Comprehensive Review of the Causes of Global Warming.


But wasn't it getting colder in the seventies/eighties? You know, when man still inhabited the planet?

And please clarify...how can anything be more than 100 percent?
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#766744 - 03/19/12 02:00 AM Re: Global Climate Change [Re: Huzband]
Bill_Walker Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 3669
Loc: San Marcos, CA USA
Originally Posted By: Huzband


But wasn't it getting colder in the seventies/eighties? You know, when man still inhabited the planet?

"In the thirty years leading up to the 1970s, available temperature recordings suggested that there was a cooling trend. As a result some scientists suggested that the current inter-glacial period could rapidly draw to a close, which might result in the Earth plunging into a new ice age over the next few centuries. This idea could have been reinforced by the knowledge that the smog that climatologists call ‘aerosols’ – emitted by human activities into the atmosphere – also caused cooling. In fact, as temperature recording has improved in coverage, it’s become apparent that the cooling trend was most pronounced in northern land areas and that global temperature trends were in fact relatively steady during the period prior to 1970.

At the same time as some scientists were suggesting we might be facing another ice age, a greater number published contradicting studies. Their papers showed that the growing amount of greenhouse gasses that humans were putting into the atmosphere would cause much greater warming – warming that would a much greater influence on global temperature than any possible natural or human-caused cooling effects.

By 1980 the predictions about ice ages had ceased, due to the overwhelming evidence contained in an increasing number of reports that warned of global warming. Unfortunately, the small number of predictions of an ice age appeared to be much more interesting than those of global warming, so it was those sensational 'Ice Age' stories in the press that so many people tend to remember."

See What were climate scientists predicting in the 1970s?

Quote:
And please clarify...how can anything be more than 100 percent?

Um, do you understand negative numbers? For example, one forcing has a -6% effect, and another has a +106% effect, with the result being 100% of the effect.
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#766764 - 03/19/12 07:02 AM Re: Global Climate Change [Re: BabyCow]
Harry_Wilshusen Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 397
Loc: Bridgeton, MO
Originally Posted By: BabyCow
Well some of you will be happy to know that the 22 million polluters of Australia will shortly be paying a carbon tax to save the rest of you. I need someone to explain to me how this is going to effect "climate change" when the rest of you are basically doing nothing?


Thank you for your help.

Now I can buy and drive that Hummer knowing you will off set my carbon usage.

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